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How many coolant pumps does S have?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by whitecotton, Jan 6, 2016.

  1. whitecotton

    whitecotton Member

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    I've seen one next to the brake master cylinder directly in front of the driver on my car, as well as 2 pumps located near the bottom of the car under the frunk. The leaked diagnostic info in the displays shows two pumps.
     
  2. pgiralt

    pgiralt Active Member

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    From what I remember from 2013 when the early cooling pumps were being replaced, there are 3.
     
  3. Kalud

    Kalud Member

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    Yes there are 3 coolant pumps.
     
  4. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    It seems to have changed at some point. My service manual specifically references a two pump setup and a three pump setup. My 20,000 VIN car had two pumps I believe.

    Edit: Just pulled up the exploded parts view for the front subframe and it shows 2 pumps.
     
  5. whitecotton

    whitecotton Member

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    You have the service Manual from tesla? How did you get that!! I have a 2013 P85
     
  6. Kalud

    Kalud Member

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    There are fuses for 3 coolant pumps on 2013 and 2014 Model S. I don't know where they are located though.
     
  7. JER

    JER Member

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    I guess it's time to repost this:

    modelscooling.png

    Two coolant pumps. Two compressors. Two fans. Three flow diverters. One heater.

    This is quite old though; assume design changes have occurred. For one, this predates dual motor.
     
  8. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    This is what I show... Well not this picture but in the exploded parts view.

    - - - Updated - - -

    They're under the trunk. The system is rather simple once you start following the hoses.

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    I created a temp credit card with a Massachusetts billing address, bought an hour of access and pressed Command+s until my fingers went numb. :-D
     
  9. pgiralt

    pgiralt Active Member

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    Went back and looked when I had my pumps replaced. There are definitely 3:

    PUMP, BATTERY COOLANT 1 (6008047-00- 1 C)
    PUMP, BATTERY COOLANT 2 (6007367-00- 1 C)
    PUMP, MOTOR INVERTER COOLANT 1 (6007373-00-C)
     
  10. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Member

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    I wish Tesla would let us display this on our cars. Would be awesome to see what the car is doing.
     
  11. JPP

    JPP Active Member

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    ...also note that the air suspension compressor lives under the frunk...
     
  12. whitecotton

    whitecotton Member

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    That would be the best thing ever!

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    Does anyone know exactly where they are on the car/along the system? Maybe the diagnostic screen only shows 2 because 2 of the three work in sync?
     
  13. whitecotton

    whitecotton Member

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    I don't have air suspension sadly... I found an old thread that had pictures of an early S under the frunk and it was very interesting to see the equipment that's more than the skateboard in the sc. I was unaware that the A/C compressor is directly behind the power steering motor.
     
  14. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    #14 Mike K, Jan 6, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
    Sure, here's a copy and paste of a post I made on one of our local car forums.

    MEDNAyF.jpg


    Here's what you're looking at:


    A - ABS Pump
    B - Vacuum pump for brake booster
    C - Air compressor for suspension
    D - Power Steering Motor
    E - Air Conditioning Compressor.
    F - Various Battery/ Motor Coolant Pumps
    G - Front of Battery

    Notes: What I have listed as a pump in the lower left corner doesn't appear to be a pump according to the service manual or it's not for the battery which makes sense because the hoses going into it and out of it don't appear to interact with the other battery coolant hoses under the hood.
     
  15. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    Interesting that they differentiate between battery and motor coolant. The diagram shows that the system may be run in parallel/series mode.
     
  16. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    #16 Mike K, Jan 6, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
    If you look at my picture you'll see the two systems don't intermingle, at least up front. I see in the service manual there are only two coolant pumps for the batteries and as of the service manual's latest update, C appears to be the current revision.

    So there is a third pump and you can see it in my picture on the lower left of my image marked with an F.

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    So I did some digging. I managed to get the diagram for that third pump and it's hoses however I didn't get the corresponding parts list like I did on the battery side of the system. So much regret. It seems pretty easy to figure out either way though.

    What I found is a bit odd. It seems the battery side of the system is it's own loop with direct connections to the chiller under the AC compressor and the battery heater but no direct plumbing to the front mount heat exchanger. The third pump is on it's own loop for the motor and inverter (verified through my diagrams) and that one has a direct connection to the front mount heat exchanger. The two loops do feed into the same reservoir and into the 4 way diverter on the driver's side firewall.

    It's a bit surprising to see it done this way. I would expect to see the motor/ inverter/ battery all on a single loop with the diverters and various pumps controlling flow into the heat exchanger, chiller, heater, etc. By keeping two separate (but connected) loops, I assume Tesla is trying to take advantage of one system's tendency to heat up quicker and then using that to affect the other loop by diverting coolant.

    It's an interesting setup, that's for sure. It's pretty simple in design but complex in utilization. I love it. I almost wish I had taken apart my salvage car now.

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    The more I think of it the more it makes sense to have two loops. For supercharging you want to chill the battery but not necessarily the motor and inverter. When the car is off and the battery coolant pumps are running that's more efficient than if you were running coolant through the battery and the inverter/ motor as well. Then you add on being able to exploit the temperature differences between the two loops and it totally makes sense. Ok, I'm done. Sorry, I'm a mechanical nerd so this is like porn to me.
     
  17. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    Right, but in certain instances it makes sense to have the loops in series. For instance, when the pack is cold, exhaust heat from the DU should be used to send warm coolant into the pack.
     
  18. Kalud

    Kalud Member

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    #18 Kalud, Jan 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
    We can see the parallel vs series mode on those two different screenshot

    Temp Screen 5.12.JPG TOUXlWM.jpg
     
  19. whitecotton

    whitecotton Member

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    Under what circumstances would the car choose parallel vs series mode?

    i am almost certain there is a pump next to the master cylinder next to the fuse boxes on my car I will try to upload pictures tonight.

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    I'm pretty sure the DU does not get near warm enough to justify repurposing the heat.

     
  20. Kalud

    Kalud Member

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    The series mode tends to say otherwise. It looks like a mode to passively heat the battery with the Motor/Drive Inverter. Look at the top of the right picture, even the radiator is bypassed.

    Parallel looks like Motor/DI passive cooling with radiator while battery is heated/cooled actively.
     

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