How many people got a "problem-free" Model X?

[aesculus]

I purposely waited to make a reservation for my Model X until January 2015. I wanted about 10,000 (our res was around 15,000) cars to be delivered before my car because I knew that there would be quality issues and also features would appear to fix or enhance the user experience that could only be discovered or understood after a number of cars were produced and mileage accumulated. Of course this was my first Tesla and EV and that added to the trepidation too. The last car I bought was a 2001 Acura MDX that was in its first few months of production but the car has been essentially flawless, racking up 240,000 miles and I just turned it over to my daughter, who I expect will get at least another 60k out of it before it meets end of life. I still have the 1952 MGTD that my father bought brand new and we have some other 199x vintage trucks in the stable. We don't change out quickly and we commit to whatever we choose for the long haul, so we choose wisely.

We attended the reveal event on Sept 29th and I was totally disappointed by the lack of folding second row seats. I also thought the front of the car was kind of 'meh'. To me it either looks unfinished or like it's lips were sewn shut. Still debating that aspect. But about everything else about the car blew me away. I fought the hordes to sit in Elon's car for a few minutes (front passenger seat) because ingress/egress and seating comfort are my number 1 priority. While I was only in there for less than 5 minutes, I felt it would be OK.

This Xmas, before ordering but knowing it could be immenant, my wife and I went to the Rockin, CA store and tried out the seating in a Model S (a performance version with next gen seats). Both my wife and I love the look of the Model S but ones I sat in before, with first gen seats, just did not seem comfortable, were not easy to get in and out of and the visibility all around seemed confined. While we could make it work, it was not going to be ideal. I left a bit disappointed. We both really like the Model S a lot.

Bonnie invited us over to her house to see Sig 2 and give it the sniff test. In just a few minutes of quality time and a great feature demo by Bonnie, both my wife and I could tell the Model X was far and above a better car for me than the Model S, so that cinched it. At the reveal I noticed the windshield and felt it would be a great addition to the car but sitting in Sig 2 on a sunny day amongst the trees over at Bonnie's sealed it. It literally blows you away. The seating comfort seemed really good and even when I put my seat in a comfortable position (I have 36" inseams), I was able to get in the 2nd row behind it and still be comfortable there too. We opted for the 6 seat car to overcome the lack of folding second row seats as my biggest use case is running up to the Sierra's within an hour for skiing for the day. I literally drive up and park, throw my boots on and walk 20 feet to the trail for the ski run. Five minutes max prep time. So no racks for me.

We were invited to configure in early January and confirmed the normal week later. It was apparent to me that few decided to order cars (probably not being able to see and sit in one and all those early issues I knew were going to happen scared everyone off). Still I was shocked when our VIN was released and we were 1526, a non performance production car. My whole game plan for waiting until a significant number of cars were produced just blew up. Thanks team.

We picked up our car last Thursday at the factory. No way I was not going for the total emersion experience with a factory delivery and tour. I pulled down the checklist and along with my sister and brother in law, who joined my wife and I for the delivery experience, memorized everything to look out for. We left the list in the car (partially not to insult the Tesla employees, but also because we committed everything to memory and prioritized items that could be dealt with later verses deal breakers that would keep us from accepting the car that day.).

It took us an hour to get the briefing handoff because we wanted to know about every detail, feature and screen in the car. I think our product specialist was getting a bit antsy but he was saved by the fact that we had the tour set for the second hour so he knew he was going to get free. All in all we could not find any flaws in the car, and we looked pretty hard. I will tell you though that being in the tent could potentially hide some flaws so as others have mentioned, you might want to take it outside before you let the delivery specialist off the hook. Note they will want you to sign the transfer papers immediately because it is part of the process and it takes a few minutes for them to get them copied and their sign off to occur.

I left with no noticeable defects and even when I got home and poured over the car the next day in the sunlight after driving it 150 miles, I found very little to gripe about. This was the extent of the problems I discovered:

• I have some clear glue that got spread in two places under the drivers side FWD threshold. I know it will come off with the proper solvent as I was able to use my fingernail and scrape a bit off exposing the good finish or the paint underneath.
• I have a tiny cut in the driver's side FWD gasket that should be replaced but is not affecting anything at the moment
• Inside both FWD door jams at the rear bottom corner the paint is not as nice as it should be. Not going to even address this as only I notice it and it can only be detected by certain lighting or running your hand over the area (about 4" square). The paint spray machine should have extended out a bit more than it does. I might mention it to Tesla just as a matter of record but they have probably already re-calibrated the paint machine by now.
• I have had a few quirks with the drivers door but fixed it quickly by forcing it all the way open and then closing it from the inside by using the brake. Only happened once. I suspect a firmware update will fix this at some point as it may be a bit too sensitive right now. Easily fixed and only required me to grab the door and give it a tweak a few times. All working fine now.
• I cannot get my Android phone to connect to the car but my wife's iPhone works fine. Also Tesla does not supply the new connectors for Androids so you cannot dock it in the cradle.

There were two other MX's being delivered the same time as mine and I did not see anyone point out anything major in their cars either. It looks like most of the issues have been resolved to just minor occurrences at this point. The quality of my paint was very good for a production car (I say this because I have painted many concours cars and won many shows so I know good painting when I see it). While a factory car can never compare to a show car finish, you can tell what's good and what's not. I am not going to do any additional finishing on my car. It's fine the way it is.

On the way home we averaged 316 Wh/mi which really surprised us. We have seen all the stories of people averaging in the high 400's. This was the biggest reason we did not go with the performance car. We want distance and the regular model has way more performance than we could even desire.

Another note is that we seem to have acquired two other features we did not expect or order. Our car has an fully active spoiler. It parks itself when off and moves to two positions based on speed. I really wanted that and was upset when I found out only the performance cars were going to get that. The other feature we have is a complete tow package including the harness and connector. It appears to be limited to 3500 lbs but I would never tow anything bigger than that with such a small car anyway.

We played with the autopilot, navigation, sound system (using FLAC files on the UHFS), and varied between an hour + of stop and go driving along with freeway crusing at 70 mph average. We even tried a pseudo launch from 0-60 and were blown away - note we don't have a performance car.

Along with the factory tour, the dedication and enthusiasm of all the Tesla employees we met or saw doing their job on the floor, the quality of the car we received and the mission to be more green, it turned out to be the whole package. We quickly forgot we just spent $125,000 on a car. In fact you were glad you did.

 

[DarrinR]

Good for you! What is your VIN? Thanks.

219 and 3235

 

[ModelXBoy]

I am also a very happy owner even my X has so many problems. I spend total 162K on the car. The most expensive X you can get, it's also more expensive than signature and founder series. I have no doubt that my X will be fixed eventually so I can enjoy the car again. I was hoping to get the car earlier than the delivery of my baby daughter (which we did), so she can see the new electric revolution when she opens her eyes. Unfortunately this is not the case, X is already in the service center when we pick up my daughter from the hospital with my wife's Macan.

 

[daddykess]

Got my car the day after you, ModelXBoy. Vin 1562. Was pretty concerned from your post and researched all other problems people reported. Very thoroughly checked the car upon delivery at San Rafael for every possible issue (to the point where I'm sure they thought I was a little nuts). Absolutely no issues. The only thing I've noticed since is the occasional wind noise on the passenger side. Generally kind of blown away by the car. My other two cars are an Audi R8 and a Honda Odyssey (which I will probably keep for my kids sports stuff since they trash it pretty badly). I joke that the X feels like those two cars had a baby (performance of a sports car, size of a van/SUV). Pretty pleased so far.

 

[ohmman]

Unfortunately this is not the case, X is already in the service center when we pick up my daughter from the hospital with my wife's Macan.

Someone in Orange County give @ModelXBoy a loaner, please. This sentence makes me sad.

 

[ModelXBoy]

Someone in Orange County give @ModelXBoy a loaner, please. This sentence makes me sad.

Yeah! We got a loaner S 60KW! It's just not big enough compares to Macan so we used Macan to pick up the cutie instead! Thank you so much for the concern. I think the X is now been well taken cared of in the service center and will be brand new again when I take the "real delivery"

 

[MitchJi]

you

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something

Yeah! We got a loaner S 60KW! It's just not big enough compares to Macan so we used Macan to pick up the cutie instead! Thank you so much for the concern. I think the X is now been well taken cared of in the service center and will be brand new again when I take the "real delivery"

Would you please list the problems?

Thanks!

 

[ModelXBoy]

G


Would you please list the problems?

Thanks!

Car left driver side hydraulic hook or whatever it is called broke off, this cause two problems:
1. Left door is entirely powerless, no force is needed to open or close (Just like any other car door now), auto presenting door, break to close door, pull lever to auto close the door, all disabled. This problem also made the entire car go crazy, rear mirrors one folds in and one does not when locking, center console black out when close the door. Passenger door when press the door button, only close half way, press again to completely close the door.
2. A metal piece shaped like a nipple came protruding out, maybe cause by the disjointed hydraulic joint hitting the metal, causing the metal to bend outward. Very visible to see from the outside.

My model x has officially entered into service center to fix following issues:
1. Broken off hydraulic on driver side
2. replace latches on both doors
3. check why the disjointed hydraulic on the driver side caused the car to go crazy
4. Fix the paint, scratch issues on both the bottom panel below the falcon wing doors
5. Searching for more scratches, dings, dents, or protruding metals anywhere on the car
6. Do alignment on the wheels and staring wheels.
7. Fix protruding rubber that was too long, causing it to rub against the painting of the falcon door.
8, Auto pilot occasionally driving on the lane instead of between the lane, shakes left and right before it finally become stable.
8. Do a 100% extremely detailed inspection on every part of the car.
9. Double check making sure there are no more problems with the car.

All of my problems are visible, you do not have to be detail oriented person or even a car enthusiast to spot them.

My very first problem is the paint issue spotted on the bottom panel of the car below the FWD, it was spotted by a Model S owner when I was charging at Fountain Valley Supercharger. After that, all other problems followed.

 

[wdolson]

agree. What makes that argument disingenuous is that some of the issues here aren't related to the unique things about the X or S (e.g. FWD) but rather basic things like panels not aligned, parts not painted, weather stripping, pano roof, etc.

That is a really lame excuse for poor engineering, really poor quality control and bad business decisions. If you put out a product expecting that the public is going to do your testing and find all the unreliable aspects of it, you deserve to have a bad reputation for quality. Thank God drug manufacturers and medical device providers don't put out new products the way some companies in the auto industry do. LOL.

Lexus did it right. They designed well, tested well and patiently put out a new quality product (in a class they never competed in before) that has been on the top of the charts for reliability from the beginning.

The link I posted they talk about Toyota and their conservative approach to change. Toyota was already a top brand for quality when they introduced Lexus so it wasn't too tough to translate that quality over.

There is a saying in the engineering biz that if you try to make something foolproof, the universe will invent a better fool. No matter how much you test something, an end user is always going to think of something nobody in development thought of and will break it. Apple tries to prevent this by making it pretty much impossible to do anything they don't specifically allow you to do, which is very frustrating if you don't think that way.

A lot of times flaws aren't found until something is out in the real world because end customers do new things. Sometimes a problem that only crops up on 1 in 1000 items will start to become a pattern when there are a lot of them out there but would be missed in testing because it only happened once or not at all.

At least some of the Model X stories do sound like manufacturing issues though. It sounds to me like Tesla is trying to push the manufacturing line faster than it can reasonably go.

There is a great episode of This American Life about NUMI, which was the owner of the Tesla factory before Tesla had it. It was first a GM factory, then a joint project between GM and Toyota when Toyota was trying to get a manufacturing foothold in the US. When GM owned the plant alone management focused on numbers of cars out the door and quality suffered as a result. When Toyota came on board, they gave workers much more power and the focus was on building cars of top quality rather than numbers.

I hope Tesla isn't falling into the trap GM did before Toyota came on board.

 

[Drivin]

There is a saying in the engineering biz that if you try to make something foolproof, the universe will invent a better fool. No matter how much you test something, an end user is always going to think of something nobody in development thought of and will break it.

I really hoped someone at tesla thought that people would want to open and close the doors. If not, they have bigger problems.

There is an old saying In the business world that whenever engineers argue that nothing can be perfect or foolproof, they should be fired and replaced with people who don't use that as a rationale for why their product has basic problems.

no one is saying a product is supposed to be perfect, but having panels that are aligned and doors that work and pano roofs that close properly and cars delivered without scratches and fully painted is not the same as expecting a perfect product

At least some of the Model X stories do sound like manufacturing issues though. It sounds to me like Tesla is trying to push the manufacturing line faster than it can reasonably go.... When GM owned the plant alone management focused on numbers of cars out the door and quality suffered as a result..

Well there you go

 

[neverdone]

vin 274; 400 miiles. no door problems. fit and finish look good to me. I have had to reboot 3 times. I have given rides to most of my neighbors. acceleration is like a rocket. I love this car.

 

[ModelXBoy]

vin 274; 400 miiles. no door problems. fit and finish look good to me. I have had to reboot 3 times. I have given rides to most of my neighbors. acceleration is like a rocket. I love this car.

Wonderful! I think all Model X parts that failed are due to human intervention. The doors are assambles by human I think. If it's by machine, issues should not be isolated to only a few people, unless the machine is hungry or something or does not want to work on the day. : )

 

[madodel]

I've reported my X story several times so skip this if you have read it already. I picked up my Sig X from Springfield NJ on Feb 3rd. My DS spent over 2 hours with me going over the car. They told me there was a problem with one of the key fobs, so they ordered a new one. They had Ludicrous installed on it, but when I pointed that out they hooked up a laptop and disabled it and changed the P90D badge on the back. Other than that everything looked good and seeing it was overwhelming so I just drove it home (over an hour on Rt 80) Tried the AP for the first time on that drive home and it was scary but it worked.

Had problems with the second row seats not moving smoothly but that was corrected by an OTA update. Falcon Wing doors just worked always. I was able to open them fully if I pulled far enough into the garage, but if I didn't pull in far enough the doors stopped before hitting the door opener. The rear door though hit the open garage door a couple times, but then I found out about setting the rear door opening height (set the height and then hold the button on the door until it beeps and it will always open to that height). That made me decide to get the car EXPEL'd before I got any dents on the spoiler. Took the X to the detailer who pointed out things I never saw on delivery, paint swirls, scuffing of the black plastic on the wheel wells and a small scratch on the front hood which I can't find but I know it's there. They will take care of all that when I take it in to get the paint corrected, the front, doors, rear bumper and the spoiler EXPEL'd and then CQuartz applied. but that won't happen until May when both they and I have time for all this. For the first time it bothers me that my car is dirty so I'm looking forward to it staying cleaner with the CQuartz.

I also had a problem when after I did the OTA update the first time and after it completed the tablet was frozen. I called service and they told me to reset the tablet by holding the two steering wheel scroll buttons until the screen banked. That fixed it and haven't had the problem since, even after applying a couple more updates.

Only problem I actually had was that the driver side wiper didn't clear rain correctly. I took it into the service center and they fixed that in less than a minute and then spent 2 hours making sure everything else was ok. They gave me the new fob while I was there. Still no sun shade available, but so far the sun has not been a problem with the tinted glass. I haven't opened the FW doors in the rain so I have no idea if those middle row seats will get drenched, but when I was at the service center they told me that Tesla was working on new channel gaskets to fix that problem. I'm appalled at the stories I've heard about bad experiences others have had as mine has been so good so far. Only minor problems. In 7 weeks I've put over 2,700 miles on my X and I never get tired of driving it.

 

[MitchJi]

Car left driver side hydraulic hook or whatever it is called broke off, this cause two problems:
1. Left door is entirely powerless, no force is needed to open or close (Just like any other car door now), auto presenting door, break to close door, pull lever to auto close the door, all disabled. This problem also made the entire car go crazy, rear mirrors one folds in and one does not when locking, center console black out when close the door. Passenger door when press the door button, only close half way, press again to completely close the door.
2. A metal piece shaped like a nipple came protruding out, maybe cause by the disjointed hydraulic joint hitting the metal, causing the metal to bend outward. Very visible to see from the outside.

My model x has officially entered into service center to fix following issues:
1. Broken off hydraulic on driver side
2. replace latches on both doors
3. check why the disjointed hydraulic on the driver side caused the car to go crazy
4. Fix the paint, scratch issues on both the bottom panel below the falcon wing doors
5. Searching for more scratches, dings, dents, or protruding metals anywhere on the car
6. Do alignment on the wheels and staring wheels.
7. Fix protruding rubber that was too long, causing it to rub against the painting of the falcon door.
8, Auto pilot occasionally driving on the lane instead of between the lane, shakes left and right before it finally become stable.
8. Do a 100% extremely detailed inspection on every part of the car.
9. Double check making sure there are no more problems with the car.

All of my problems are visible, you do not have to be detail oriented person or even a car enthusiast to spot them.

My very first problem is the paint issue spotted on the bottom panel of the car below the FWD, it was spotted by a Model S owner when I was charging at Fountain Valley Supercharger. After that, all other problems followed.

Thanks for your reply!

I'm really sorry that your MX has so many problems! It sounds like (I hope) that a lot of the problems are caused by the "driver side hydraulic hook" breaking off, and that most of the remaining problems are minor. I hope that Tesla (I believe they will), makes you happy!

 

[ankitmishra]

I really hoped someone at tesla thought that people would want to open and close the doors. If not, they have bigger problems.

There is an old saying In the business world that whenever engineers argue that nothing can be perfect or foolproof, they should be fired and replaced with people who don't use that as a rationale for why their product has basic problems.

no one is saying a product is supposed to be perfect, but having panels that are aligned and doors that work and pano roofs that close properly and cars delivered without scratches and fully painted is not the same as expecting a perfect product



Well there you go

Tesla is the only company that is under extreme pressure from stock market, media and people. A large section of people don't understand it and questions it's viability again and again. Misguided people in a group are dangerous. Hence, Tesla is always on edge to stay in limelight and maintain its momentum. It is always in pressure to increase car sales so that naysayers can be pushed back. People want to know when it will make a car for them. They aren't interested much in the communication of Tesla or misaligned doors. Till Tesla is under pressure, these mishaps will happen because in every next quarter Tesla will challenge it's present capabilities.

 

[GoTslaGo]

Tesla is the only company that is under extreme pressure from stock market, media and people. A large section of people don't understand it and questions it's viability again and again. Misguided people in a group are dangerous. Hence, Tesla is always on edge to stay in limelight and maintain its momentum. It is always in pressure to increase car sales so that naysayers can be pushed back. People want to know when it will make a car for them. They aren't interested much in the communication of Tesla or misaligned doors. Till Tesla is under pressure, these mishaps will happen because in every next quarter Tesla will challenge it's present capabilities.

True, hopefully a great Model 3 reveal/reception will take the pressure off the X.

 

[James Anders]

Tesla is the only company that is under extreme pressure from stock market, media and people. A large section of people don't understand it and questions it's viability again and again. Misguided people in a group are dangerous. Hence, Tesla is always on edge to stay in limelight and maintain its momentum. It is always in pressure to increase car sales so that naysayers can be pushed back. People want to know when it will make a car for them. They aren't interested much in the communication of Tesla or misaligned doors. Till Tesla is under pressure, these mishaps will happen because in every next quarter Tesla will challenge it's present capabilities.

Tesla is not the only company with extreme pressure from the stock market, media and people. Tesla may be the most visible but every public company has shareholders that put extreme pressure on the company to succeed and excel.

 

[James Anders]

It's one of the most complex production cars ever built.

This mantra gets a lot of repetitions but... what IS there so complex in X?
Doors? Don't make me laugh.
Windscreen? A single piece.
Seats? Really, that is complex?

X is no more complex that any run of the mill car, it has its subsystems that may not yet be tuned to exact note but eventually they will be.
Want a see a most complex production car? Go look at Porsche 959 with 11 clutches and what not... now that was one complex dynamic system.

Musk is the one who started this "mantra". The X is and was complex. Jeeze, they had to invent a new kind of ultrasonic detector that worked underneath the metal skin. The doors are complex and compared to conventional doors there's a lot more that could go wrong or fail.

I'm sure these initial teething pains will subside but it's clear that Tesla pushed the envelope.

Elon Musk: The Model X is so advanced we probably shouldn't have built it

 

[ankitmishra]

Tesla is not the only company with extreme pressure from the stock market, media and people. Tesla may be the most visible but every public company has shareholders that put extreme pressure on the company to succeed and excel.

Kindly give some examples too. Your post only communicates that you disagree with me, not why? Which other company faces huge shorts, politicians, under handed tricks by other car makers, extreme media scrutiny, questions from almost everyone about its viability?
People were not ready for electric cars, Tesla is dragging everyone towards them single handedly. Why doesn't car industry see new start ups? A car maker start up with disrupting technology working to create the technology and simultaneously creating the infrastructure to support it, that's what Tesla is.

 

[Travelguy]

VIN 276 - I've had it for a week and so far the only issue I've had is with the back seat cup holder that won't stay shut and I've replaced the battery in one key fob and it now works well. Both minor issues and everything else is working perfectly. We had a bit of snow and ice in Upstate NY last week too and had no problems with the rear doors opening and closing. So far, merchanically it's been great and fewer problems than either of my 2 previous Model S's (an original S85 and my current S85D)