How many potential buyers worry about roadtrips?

[ecarfan]

Regular use of electrics and superchargers is a new scenario and the prediction here is to expect a 15% range degradation per year with superchargers.Thoughts ?

Whose "prediction" are you referring to, exactly?

There is no data to support your statement. Roadster data up to 100K miles shows around 10% battery loss in total, in some cases a bit more. Model S data up to over 50K miles shows about 10% loss in the first year and far less, if any! loss in the second year.

So far, for Tesla EVs at least, the batteries are holding up very well. It seems clear that the BMS is doing its job to minimizing degradation.

 

[Canuck]

I just can't wrap my head around spending $80k and then having to make compromises. And even if I could, I can't imagine explaining it to my wife....

Seems like you need to work on your marriage before even thinking about buying a new car.

 

[CHGolferJim]

10% loss in first year = 250 to 225? That's big.

 

[Just a Reader]

Many excellent points above, and yet I would offer a slightly different answer.

Only buy the car if it makes sense for you. Neither you nor the EV movement will benefit from a mismatch.

Exactly. Obviously asking this question in a Tesla forum will give you very different answers than what you'll get if you ask the question in a normal car forum.

I am a potential buyer and do admit that the question of road trips is one of my main concerns and this does not only concern not being able to hammer down the autobahn at 100+ mp/h while maintaining a decent range. So perhaps I may offer a different point of view:

a) because of the comparatively small number of SCs all of a sudden the car determines the route and the stops - not the requirements of the driver and the occupants. No spontaneous decision to stop at some small country inn etc., unless you accept that the additional SC stop will increase your traveling time substantially.
b) The SC here in Germany seem to be located at the very locations where I wouldn't want to go to for a rest when traveling for pleasure: Autohöfe = glorified truck stops with tons of HGVs, long-distance coaches etc.
c) If the motorway gets closed e.g. because of a pile-up and you get sent off on a detour you are in trouble
d) plenty of hassle to secure overnight-charging at a hotel. This rules out hotels without their own parking facilities (plenty of those in Europe). It also rules out hotels where - as a late arrival - you squeeze in your car somewhere in a tightly packed parking lot and check in at some sort of ATM machine without any staff being on site (quite common in France)
e) I have often crossed parts of France at night traveling on the Route Nationale. Hundreds of kilometers, passing though sleeping villages and towns. Obviously these kind of trips could get difficult without sufficient charging facilities.

You may consider such issues as relevant or not for your own requirements, but you can not legitimately deny that they exist.

 

[tomas]

10% loss in first year = 250 to 225? That's big.

This thread is getting frustrating. Despite hundreds (maybe thousands) of experiential MS and roadster posts that indicate minimal (~5% for most) loss in first year and almost none thereafter, one troll posts an idiotic figure of 15% per year, and suddenly prospective customers are sweating bullets. I urge anyone considering the car to read through the forum for preponderance of evidence, and not over-react to outlier posts.

FYI, my loss in 18 months is from original max 100% charge of ~270 to current 100% max of 255. I do not know where you get 250 and 225!?!?!

 

[karmamule]

When considering buying I was concerned whether my couple-times-a-year drive from Boston to Hendersonville NC (near Asheville) to visit my father would be do-able on a Tesla, as well as my drives to middle Connecticut that I do about once every month or two.

In the case of the CT drive existing superchargers already had me covered (maybe add about 10 minutes tops), and in the case of the Hendersonville drive I saw that with existing superchargers plus one or two currently under construction (at that time) would make the trip a no-brainer. I can't yet take my preferred route 81S, and yes the time will be a bit longer. But, for safety's sake I already stop to refuel, biobreak, and get a snack every 3 hours or so. In the past those have taken about 15 minutes, so stretching to 20 to 30 minutes may add a bit of time, but not much. I'll also add time because I have to go on more delay-prone roads. So, that trip is still do-able but will take longer.

However, then I looked at the positives: I'm saving hundreds of dollars in fuel costs, have a vehicle that makes the planning/navigation beyond easy compared to most in-auto systems, can enjoy a ride free of engine noise & vibration, and have all the top notch performance and safety characteristics the Model S is lauded for.

As another poster mentioned, if you offered free gas with a 20 minute wait people would line up around the block to take advantage of that, yet suddenly they're unwilling to stretch a rest stop a few minutes for getting that benefit the "Model S way". Definitely more emotional than rational.

Once I saw the long distance travel I did was perfectly do-able (and things are looking even better when I see some near future superchargers in the mix!) I went ahead with my order and am now counting the last 5 weeks or so until my S85 gets here!

 

[bollar]

When considering buying I was concerned whether my couple-times-a-year drive from Boston to Hendersonville NC (near Asheville) to visit my father would be do-able on a Tesla, as well as my drives to middle Connecticut that I do about once every month or two.

I went to high school in Hendersonville.

I look forward to your report on driving your S on the Blue Ridge Parkway!

 

[deonb]

I've made several multi-SuperCharger trips - the longest being a 800 mile stretch from San Francisco to Seattle in a single day.

I've also done that 800 mile day-trip before with an ICE. With the SuperChargers, it may took a couple of hours longer, BUT I ended up being MUCH more relaxed at the destination due to the longer and more frequent stops.

And there is no longer the matter of you are tired as the driver and want a break but your family keeps nagging you on. Everybody in the car now just accepts the stop without complaint - and we can go out and walk around the block, actually go into a coffee shop rather than a drive-through, and have a proper sit-down meal instead of eating on the go etc. Stuff I would have preferred to do anyway, but the non-drivers always wanted to move on.

So at least to me, SuperCharger roadtrips aren't a compromise - they're a blessing.

 

[wk057]

The road trips I've done with the superchargers have been a piece of cake. Drove from NJ to Tampa, FL, then up to western NC, then back to NJ, without any issue... even skipped a couple of superchargers. At least 7000 of my 15k miles are supercharger miles. I honestly don't even bother looking at the range anymore on trips. I just set the GPS to the next supercharger and drive like I would normally drive, which isn't necessarily conservative...

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

10% loss in first year = 250 to 225? That's big.

sure if it were true for ANY model S

265 - 250mi after 1 year is about the worst that has been seen.
and the battery might not have been completely balanced

degradation after the initial 1-2 years will typically be at a slower rate than the initial degradation

 

[danzig]

The worry about range on road trips never entered my mind. I could not drive too great of a distance anyways with 3 small kids.

 

[eAdopter]

Prior to purchasing the MS, I considered how often I'd travel beyond the local area. The estimate was once every 2-3 years, so I purchased a 40 kWh MS. After 13 months of ownership, I finally took a "long" trip (565 miles). The amazing part: I drove all those miles and didn't charge once even though I own a 40 kWh car!

Yep, I drove our Honda. It's also a nice car Paid about $84 for gas.

As of today, this puts me $19,916 ahead when compared to the $20,000 cost of upgrading to an 85 kWh car.
Well, almost. I put the $20,000 in TSLA at about $34.50 per share.

 

[CHGolferJim]

Chill, Tomas, it was a simple numerical example to underline how unlikely it was. Ideal 270 = Actual 250 anyways.

 

[dennis]

So I'm considering a road trip from Northern CA to Southern CA, but I tend not to drive slow, so I'm concerned what my actual mileage will be from the 257 range charge when I'm averaging a long distance at 80+ mph + headwind + hills, etc..

The things that worry me:
- real distance on range charge at 80+ mph
- distance between SCs and even from NorCal to So Cal, they are pretty close.
- Being iced at a SC
- SC crowding just because of all the Tesla's on the west coast
- SC performance (the one time I used a SC was at the Fremont location and it was painfully slow. I believe an HWPC would have charged me faster, I ended up disconnecting and charging at a Tesla Store.
- destination charging (I've asked someone in LA to install a 14-50 outlet, so I could charge near them since there wasn't any other option near by.)

I did this trip 18 months ago, go for it:

- 180 miles is safe
- 115 miles along I5
- the ones on I5 are not in shopping malls so little chance of being ICE'd
- maybe on Friday evening or Sunday afternoon, otherwise little chance
- You were probably paired with another Model S that had just plugged in. Pay attention to the 1A/1B/2A/etc. letters on the pedestal and plug into one that does not have a car using the other member of the A/B pair
- I used a J1772 at a restaurant during dinner (no charging at my hotel) to give me enough range to get to the Hawthorne supercharger for the trip back

Once you get past the first road trip the range anxiety goes away.

 

[stevezzzz]

I just finished a 3200 mile road trip from Denver to the Bay area and back, Supercharging all the way except for a couple of private HPWCs at overnight stops. No sweat, and my longest day was 800 miles: I arrived at sunset, relaxed and unfazed.

By the way, I have a very early Sig S and my Range charge has dropped from 265 Rated miles to 257 Rated miles in 22 months and 30,000+ miles. It's got the original 'A' pack.

 

[bonnie]

Once you get past the first road trip the range anxiety goes away.

^^^ +1. It's hard cutting the umbilical cord (well, the home charging cord) and heading out into the wild. But once you do, you realize it's no big deal. Have fun!

- - - Updated - - -

I just finished a 3200 mile road trip from Denver to the Bay area and back, Supercharging all the way except for a couple of private HPWCs at overnight stops. No sweat, and my longest day was 800 miles: I arrived at sunset, relaxed and unfazed.

By the way, I have a very early Sig S and my Range charge has dropped from 265 Rated miles to 257 Rated miles in 22 months and 30,000+ miles. It's got the original 'A' pack.

I'd like to also point out that stevezzzz (hi, old friend!) is the one I called when I was first getting my Roadster and he calmed me down about this whole range anxiety thing. "Bonnie, just plan a little. You'll be fine."

He was right. I was.

 

[tomas]

Chill, Tomas, it was a simple numerical example to underline how unlikely it was. Ideal 270 = Actual 250 anyways.

I'm always chilled!

So your post was a hypothetical numerical example intended to illustrate a point? Not clear to me, but my wife says I'm not always sensitive.

Btw my 270 was rated, not ideal. And rated is achievable except in northern winters. Maybe we are in violent agreement. 10% first year degradation is high, not supported by facts.

 

[dennis]

I had an interesting road trip experience this past week, travelling from the Bay Area to an annual golf tournament in Lake Tahoe. I alternate driving every year with a friend and this year another friend joined us. 3 guys, 3 golf bags, 3 suitcases, a pull cart, a case of wine, a cooler, and a few other miscellaneous bags showed off the utility of the Model S. There were 5 of us staying in one house so in the evening we would pull out the golf bags, put the 1/2 of the rear seat back up, and go in one car to wherever we were having dinner. Versatility.

My friend recently got an Audi A6 which he really likes and before that had a BMW 535i. He was skeptical of electric cars, especially since 2 years ago my [former] Fisker Karma destroyed the splines on one of the traction motors 90 miles into the trip. On the way to Tahoe he half-jokingly asked "Are we going to make it?" several times. We stopped in Roseville to Supercharge and hung out a bit longer than necessary at the Starbucks since I was unsure how much extra we would need for the 7000 foot climb. We arrived in Truckee with almost 50 miles of range, so clearly I overdid it.

Since the Truckee supercharger is not yet available, I had scoped out a free 30 amp charger on Recargo. It was across the street from our dinner spot the first night, so I left the Model S charging overnight to fully replenish the battery, not wanting anyone to fret about whether we would have enough charge for the daily trips to various golf courses and restaurants. The last two nights I replenished a bit using a 110 outlet in my host's garage. Coming home was a breeze with a 40 minute stop at the Vacaville Supercharger (overkill again). I let my friend drive the last 100 miles. At the end of the trip he told me he was glad he hadn't driven the Model S before he got the A6 because he really liked it and wouldn't have wanted to spend $100K+ on a car!

My takeaways from this trip:

1) When there isn't supercharging at a destination it just requires a little planning
2) Once the supercharger is operational in Truckee, this trip is an no-brainer. Just plug in while shopping at the nearby Safeway.
3) Since we drive the Model S every day, we forget how awesome a car it is and its total superiority to ICE cars, including Audi's and BMW's.

 

[robatbeach]

We've had trips from MD to western WV, MD to Philly, MD to New York, and MD to western Iowa and back.

Especially the western Iowa trip was great and completely on the supercharger network.

So, if your trips are on the current or future supercharger network which is getting extensive (but as discussed in other posts not there for everyone yet), you are likely to be fine.

If you are the type that eats while driving in order to make the best time, this may not be for you.
If you are the type to pee in a cup while driving or stop for a quick roadside pee, this may not be for you.
If you stop to use the restroom, stretch your legs, and sit down for lunch and dinner, you won't notice the difference from a roadtrip in an ICE if you're on a supercharger route with the exceptions that the Model S is a better driving experience, you are less likely to breakdown, you won't need to stop at a gas station, and you won't have gas price anxiety.

So put your GasBuddy app away, get a Tesla, and enjoy the ride.

 

[huntjo]

263 rated mile of range after 22 months of driving in all weather conditions. 16,000 miles. Concerns about degradation of battery are FUD hype.

As others have stated above there is virtually no remaining cause to alter your road trip plans any more these days. Just plan ahead or at least do a quick search for what chargers are on th way and don't plan but know your options. Destination charging is easier than you think. In the days before superchargers, I drove through a blizzard over a mountain pass for a 128 mile one way trip. Did I achieve rated range? Heck no. Was I worried? Well, about the driving conditions in general yes; but about range, no. There is a continuous updating remaining range indicator which is quite accurate, rather than a vague dial marked off in quarter and eighth of a "tank" amounts. And wouldn't you know it, the condo we were staying at found a 110 v plug near the parking area I could plug into and recharge all weekend while we were there, to fill up again for the ride home.

If you're looking for reasons not to drive electric you can easily make one up for yourself. But lack of range and battery degradation hav been solved by Tesla.