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How many will look into the F-150 Lightning?

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Keep in mind that most people buy a car or truck based on fashion, not capability
+1
I own a Smart Electric, one of the most "capability first" cars ever, pure commute appliance, no frills.

Given my future needs (no commute), the F150 fits them better than the garage we have today with a Tesla S and a Smart. I just paid 75$ for delivery of a tree that won't fit in my Smart or Tesla S, plus the dirt I paid to have delivered last week, and the lumber the week before ... one truck to rule them all
 
+1
I own a Smart Electric, one of the most "capability first" cars ever, pure commute appliance, no frills.

Given my future needs (no commute), the F150 fits them better than the garage we have today with a Tesla S and a Smart. I just paid 75$ for delivery of a tree that won't fit in my Smart or Tesla S, plus the dirt I paid to have delivered last week, and the lumber the week before ... one truck to rule them all
There's a reason the F-150 is the most widely owned vehicle in the US. It's a utility thing, not fashion, as there are certainly a lot of other better looking & easier to drive vehicles. In a packed city where people are living on top of each other it makes little sense. Beyond that, the utility of a pickup is hard to ignore.
 
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There's a reason the F-150 is the most widely owned vehicle in the US. It's a utility thing, not fashion,
Well, lets not overlook role played by the massive marketing budget Ford uses to create an image of the macho F-150 owner. I doubt your average F-150 owner could list 3 advantages his truck has over the Silverado or Ram and probably doesn’t even care. If utility played a role, all 3 truck makers would probably be tied for 1st in sales since they’re all pretty close in specs, servicing and pricing. If you doubt this try watching an ad for a Ford truck and note how much time is spent listing specs vs how much time is spent driving thru rivers, over boulders, or thru vast deserts. I question how many owners really use their truck for those extreme activities.
 
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Well, lets not overlook role played by the massive marketing budget Ford uses to create an image of the macho F-150 owner. I doubt your average F-150 owner could list 3 advantages his truck has over the Silverado or Ram and probably doesn’t even care. If utility played a role, all 3 truck makers would probably be tied for 1st in sales since they’re all pretty close in specs, servicing and pricing. If you doubt this try watching an ad for a Ford truck and note how much time is spent listing specs vs how much time is spent driving thru rivers, over boulders, or thru vast deserts. I question how many owners really use their truck for those extreme activities.
Agree.

Also, pickup owners are more tribal than Tesla owners (I know, hard to believe). And many Ford pickup owners that would never look at a Dodge Ram, Ram owners that would never look at a Chevy, and Chevy owners .... They just buy the latest from their brand/tribe, over and over.

So a lot of hardcore Ford pickup (best selling vehicle in the US) owners are not going to look at a CyberTruck now that an F-150 EV will be available. They may move to an EV pickup, but that EV will have a Ford nameplate.
 
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A very thorough comparison.

OMG seriously? You could not get a more bias review. I agree range is king. However, Tesla is notorious for listing unreachable ranges. So until they are both out, I would not compare the 500 mile to 300 mile ranges. Why the "Platinum" version. How about the XLT with the long range battery. The CT will not come close in "luxury" as the Platinum. Harping on no air compressor? Buy a pancake and plug it in. FSD? No, Tesla does NOT have true FSD. Let's wait to compare actual vehicles. He forgot to mention that the Ford can power your house during a power outage - probably a very desirable feature for many. He raises some legitimate points - seats, bed length, payload - it is unfortunate he had to go so far out of his way to make up irrelevant or overly exaggerated differences. Very few are going to decide based on which truck has a better 0-60. If that is your concern you should not be buying any truck. The Supercharging network is huge, but if you are mostly local driving - not that important.

Full disclosure I think the CT is ugly and would never buy. My son likes it - may be generational. I have had 5 F-350 crewcabs with Powerstroke motors - so I get torque. Currently have a Tesla X and a Corvette. My wife really likes the Lightning. Competition is always good.
 
Thus affirming my assertion that fashion is what sells trucks, not capabilities.
Agreed - at least mostly. Capabilities still matter, but if you don't have the "looks" you are at a huge disadvantage - Pontiac Aztec. What pushed Tesla was the beauty - and performance. Model S for the first time married looks and performance in an EV. We bought the Model X vs the Lincoln Aviator GT though based on capabilities - BEV. My wife would tell you the Lincoln was better looking and more luxurious (no vented seats in the Tesla, no auto parking??)but we went with the Model X because the Aviator a PHEV was not "capable" of enough all electric driving - battery and electric motor too small.
 
Weight and aerodynamics/air resistance are the primary foes of range for EVs.

Aluminium megacastings and the SS skin is going to reduce CT weight. The 4680 cells are going to increase pack capacity while reducing weight thereby increasing efficiency and range. I'm sure Tesla has studying the various trade-offs for their Semi in detail.

I believe Ford needs to release their F150 pronto and ramp as fast as they can to secure sales. Cannibalize their F150 gassers is better than the alternative.

Also, lets hope Ford gets their new home chargers working for the F150 since they're hyping V2H. Mustang customers got hosed with their chargers (Ford Issues Stop Sale of its Electric Vehicle Home Charging Equipment).

You don't realize how your post is a POSTITIVE for the F150 IMHO.

Let's do the math.
Ford needs 30% more battery for the same range as Tesla (you said it).
This means a 230 mile range Ford has the same battery size as a 300 mile range Tesla. Fair? 230*1.3=300

Towing range for large travel trailers is dominated by air resistance.
Ford and Tesla will have similar rolling resistance. Therefore, towing range for either truck will depend on battery capacity.

Therefore, math suggests the base Ford and AWD Cybertruck will have identical towing range, and we already know those two are going to be close in price.
 
Weight and aerodynamics/air resistance are the primary foes of range for EVs.

Aluminium megacastings and the SS skin is going to reduce CT weight. The 4680 cells are going to increase pack capacity while reducing weight thereby increasing efficiency and range. I'm sure Tesla has studying the various trade-offs for their Semi in detail.

I believe Ford needs to release their F150 pronto and ramp as fast as they can to secure sales. Cannibalize their F150 gassers is better than the alternative.

Also, lets hope Ford gets their new home chargers working for the F150 since they're hyping V2H. Mustang customers got hosed with their chargers (Ford Issues Stop Sale of its Electric Vehicle Home Charging Equipment).
I am going to bet V2H is going to be expensive to install and a lot of installs are going to be partial home only. The high draw items, A/C, heating (if heat pumps), dryers, etc. will not be supported.
 
I am going to bet V2H is going to be expensive to install and a lot of installs are going to be partial home only. The high draw items, A/C, heating (if heat pumps), dryers, etc. will not be supported.
Yep… isn’t the output 9 kw max? Tesla has discovered how much more complicated and expensive partial home backups can be… I think some people are in for sticker shock
 
+1
I own a Smart Electric, one of the most "capability first" cars ever, pure commute appliance, no frills.

Given my future needs (no commute), the F150 fits them better than the garage we have today with a Tesla S and a Smart. I just paid 75$ for delivery of a tree that won't fit in my Smart or Tesla S, plus the dirt I paid to have delivered last week, and the lumber the week before ... one truck to rule them all
Lol. Smart car lol. come On man
 
I was hoping to be blown away. Some of the features I thought were really interesting like the power back up that can power your house up to 3 days. Sounds great. I was a little underwhelmed with the range and even the towing specs. The high end models are 300 miles or range which is nothing crazy. I do think it looks great because I have always loved the F-150 look and the power frunk looked great also. However right now I don't see me dropping my Cybertruck reservation for the F-150 with those specs. But I do love the fact that the market is getting a little more crowded.

I was a little disappointed at the range until I realized it's 300mi WITH A 1,000 LB PAYLOAD.

You're looking at 400-450mi usable range without that 1,000 lb.

More than likely going with the Lightning over CT. Especially when considering build quality and customer service...
 
I was a little disappointed at the range until I realized it's 300mi WITH A 1,000 LB PAYLOAD.

You're looking at 400-450mi usable range without that 1,000 lb.

More than likely going with the Lightning over CT. Especially when considering build quality and customer service...
I would advise extreme caution if you are purchasing on the expectation of 400+ miles of range.
 
I was a little disappointed at the range until I realized it's 300mi WITH A 1,000 LB PAYLOAD.

You're looking at 400-450mi usable range without that 1,000 lb.

More than likely going with the Lightning over CT. Especially when considering build quality and customer service...
A 450 mile range would put it among the longest ranges possible on any EV. I would think any car manufacturer building a vehicle with a range like that would be advertising such a long range to potential buyers. Since we aren't hearing anything about a 450 mile range from Ford, I'm betting it won't go anywhere near that far unless it's during a 25 mph hypermile event.
 
Weight and aerodynamics/air resistance are the primary foes of range for EVs.
Aluminium megacastings and the SS skin is going to reduce CT weight. The 4680 cells are going to increase pack capacity while reducing weight thereby increasing efficiency and range. I'm sure Tesla has studying the various trade-offs for their Semi in detail.

You replied to a post where I clearly outlined the topic of towing range.
As I asserted, towing range of F150L or CT may be closer than the announced non-towing specs for both vehicles.

Palmer says bed payloads don't tend to affect range all that much.

Back to towing range. As I asserted, estimates seem to imply Ford base and Tesla mid-spec trucks will have similar battery capacity and therefore similar towing range, for similar price. The article I linked backs up my logic and the math checks out.
 
Yup. Basic physics and vehicle dynamics known for decades are conveniently forgotten when pushing an agenda.

To be fair, that basic rule of physics is true for all vehicles.

:rolleyes:
Is that the best you can come up with? Trying to declare F150 the "winner" based upon cherry picking speculative marketing slide numbers (your "logic and the math")?

We'll see when CT, F150, Rivian, and the rest are out on the market and we get test reviews from impartial parties. Ford has a long way to go with EVs and they're not doing particularly well based upon their Mustang. Ford has a century (100 years!) more vehicle manufacturing experience over Tesla so I was expecting amazing and was left super underwhelmed. Lets hope they do better with F150.

You replied to a post where I clearly outlined the topic of towing range.
As I asserted, towing range of F150L or CT may be closer than the announced non-towing specs for both vehicles.



Back to towing range. As I asserted, estimates seem to imply Ford base and Tesla mid-spec trucks will have similar battery capacity and therefore similar towing range, for similar price. The article I linked backs up my logic and the math checks out.