theganjaguru
Guru
Oh you’re right. I’d still go with the base of that was my price range as it’s all wheel drive. Plus like I said, Ford seems to be more honest on actual their range based off all the Mach E reviews.
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How many will look into the F-150 Lightning?
- Thread starter jboy210
- Start date
They may be talking about the "FordPass Network". It is a virtual network of chargers that has agreements with several charger providers like EA and even Level 2 only providers. This network has had issues for some Mustang owners. There have been a number of teething issues with the chargers recognizing the vehicles. See Youtube for examples.
After watching a lot of YouTube videos my takeaway is if you are used to Tesla's Supercharging network that "just works", you may be disappointed with the FordPass Network as it currently exists.
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El joe
Active Member
Agree with all of this. They were talking about the FordPass Network and to your second point, I used to own a Bolt and third-party networks will be a problem for anyone looking to make roadtrips with an EV, especially if Tesla's network "just works." Couldn't have put it better myself.
Tam
Well-Known Member
I think you are right that it is not that simple because it requires Sunrun to set it up (but I think it's much simpler than solar/powerwall permits).
However, since Tesla no longer sells Powerwall without solar and as a Texas winter storm victim found out that the warranty voided for hooking up Tesla's car battery to power his gas-powered furnace at home: So this might open up a niche market for Ford especially, as Elon Musk said "Zombie Apocalypse".
So you think that 250 kW will be any diff than the TM3 as an example. It is a short duration and drops to below 150 kW ;-)
Via: Tesla Model 3 LR Vs Hyundai Ioniq 5: Fast Charging Comparison
That's very different from other similar graphs I've seen, which show it not crossing the 150 kW line until almost 50% SOC. I wonder if they got throttled and/or if they had too many cars in their group of chargers.
That said, if you look at what that same Model 3 car did on a 150 kW supercharger, the taper started at about the same amount of time, and went down to 90 kW by 50% SOC instead of 150 kW. If the Ford behaves similarly, then the difference between 250 kW maximum charging and 150 kW is likely to be pretty significant.
crimsonaudio
Member
TjckTock
Member
It's actually worse than that if there is any elevation change. The super charger in Campo Verde to the Grand Canyon is 138 miles. Assuming a destination charger you might just squeak by... until you consider there is over 6000ft of elevation to climb. Just the potential energy of a 10000lb trailer raising 1 mile is almost 20kWh - not considering drag or any other losses. You simply cant get there.
Time will tell but it seems like Ford, GMC and eventually maybe Dodge just want to sell the same truck but with electric power train, a big tablet display and some value added features enabled by batteries. In this way the Tesla's and Rivian's should beat them on efficiency and features as their vehicles are designed to be electric. The Lighting will undoubtedly win people who want a F150 specifically and compare lighting to the ICE model, and that's a great win. I've had 3 F150s including my current ride, but my next will be CT.
Bridor
Member
Lightning - great name, boring vehicle. I am so looking forward to getting the Cybertruck...
Brent
Brent
EXOTIC1
Member
If Ford (or any other competitor) can get up to volume production before Tesla, I'd consider cancelling my Cybertruck reservations. If Tesla continues to slow play the CT rollout (like with the Roadster and semi) then I'll look into a competitor.
theganjaguru
Guru
The other thing I really like on the f-150 is the frunk and the fact that the “grill” is attached. Perfect for short people. #ShortPeopleProblems
rhumbliner
Member
I agree Ford seems to have done some things right, but the high coefficient of drag and questionable charging network are a non-starter for me. The only reason I own a Ram 1500 is to drag my Airstream around and we typically put a fair number of miles on each year. The 500-mile CT is the bare minimum for me since my actual range will probably be in the 250-300 mile range when I’m towing. Of course I’m concerned with having to drop the trailer every time I visit a SuperCharger but @ohmman and others seem to be comfortable with the practice so I’m sure I’ll get proficient with it.
During our travels I make a point to visit nearby EA stations and I’m constantly dismayed. I see new ones going up in parking lots for Walmart, Target, etc, where they are always squeezed into a tight corner with no hope of dropping a trailer nearby. And the older ones invariably have one or two “Out of Order” signs. Until EA gets the bugs ironed out I wouldn’t feel comfortable attempting long distance travel with the Lightning.
I love the idea of using the Lightning to power my home during outages but there must be some difficulty with that feature. Tesla hasn’t done it, yet, and Nissan tried it with my Leaf back in 2014 but then backed off. I guess we’ll see if Ford can really accomplish that.
And, of course, the biggest drawback with the Lightning is the dealer network. Although I’m satisfied with my Ram, I hated my dealer experience: prices way above sticker, all sorts of options but no trucks on the lot with the options I want, sales people who’ll say anything to get the sale, pressure to buy maintenance contracts and extended warranties. I much prefer sitting at my laptop clicking a few options and then waiting for the call that my vehicle is ready.
During our travels I make a point to visit nearby EA stations and I’m constantly dismayed. I see new ones going up in parking lots for Walmart, Target, etc, where they are always squeezed into a tight corner with no hope of dropping a trailer nearby. And the older ones invariably have one or two “Out of Order” signs. Until EA gets the bugs ironed out I wouldn’t feel comfortable attempting long distance travel with the Lightning.
I love the idea of using the Lightning to power my home during outages but there must be some difficulty with that feature. Tesla hasn’t done it, yet, and Nissan tried it with my Leaf back in 2014 but then backed off. I guess we’ll see if Ford can really accomplish that.
And, of course, the biggest drawback with the Lightning is the dealer network. Although I’m satisfied with my Ram, I hated my dealer experience: prices way above sticker, all sorts of options but no trucks on the lot with the options I want, sales people who’ll say anything to get the sale, pressure to buy maintenance contracts and extended warranties. I much prefer sitting at my laptop clicking a few options and then waiting for the call that my vehicle is ready.
Wow I thought this video was very interesting. Seems like the value being pushed isn't going to be there. And this youtuber is usually very level headed and honest and not just a tesla fanboy.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
I loved the back and forth on this video. (Used lower right gear icon and watched at x1.5)
"We Rode In The Electric F-150 Lightning! Here’s What It’s Like To Drive"
"We Rode In The Electric F-150 Lightning! Here’s What It’s Like To Drive"
uujjj2
Member
The Ford is much better than I expected, and at a much lower price too. It's got the most usable frunk I've seen yet.
But I still think the Cybertruck is a better value. First, the Ford doesn't look very aerodynamic. Tesla will probably be more efficient. At the high end, the Tesla is going to offer a lot more range, while at the low end Tesla will still offer more range but with a smaller battery. That means less charge time and cost per mile. Second, the Tesla has a bigger bed with a built-in cover. Third, there's the Supercharging network. Finally, most importantly, I don't think Ford has the battery manufacturing capability to ship more volume than the Cybertruck.
But I still think the Cybertruck is a better value. First, the Ford doesn't look very aerodynamic. Tesla will probably be more efficient. At the high end, the Tesla is going to offer a lot more range, while at the low end Tesla will still offer more range but with a smaller battery. That means less charge time and cost per mile. Second, the Tesla has a bigger bed with a built-in cover. Third, there's the Supercharging network. Finally, most importantly, I don't think Ford has the battery manufacturing capability to ship more volume than the Cybertruck.
Elon confirmed on his latest appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast that the CT wasn't built for efficiency. We obviously don't know where it ends up but he said they didn't really prioritize efficiency.
My understanding from the little of what I’ve read on the features, and that little astrick on the last graphic, is that the home charging is only an “option” if you buy the top of the line $90K version. BTW saw Sunrun saying they could install the equipment for you (no pricing listed). Sunrun Jumps on Ford Alliance for Electric F-150 Pickup TruckHow sound before others add the truck 'PowerWall'?
Also thought all the power outlets only came with the top of the line model?? I don’t see many construction/service companies spending that kind of money ($90K) per truck needed. The commercial fleet model pricing is probably for the low end model of the line and basically for hauling equipment to job sites and general work vehicle.
As a residential home owner though with no need for a pickup, I’d much rather have a solar panel/PW system to power my home and a Model 3 or Y to drive around as a daily driver for that 90K price point. If it’s a long power outage (thinking hurricane, tornado or earthquake affected area with long term recovery), I’d know the sun would be out the next day to replenish my battery back up unit at least and it could keep on giving as long as needed for home comfort.
Nice to see a conventional looking EV pickup coming out in a year or two for those that would never consider a CT. The Rivian I think looks nicer than the F150 and has better specs but again for people at that upper spending end and more of a recreational vehicle anyway. Nice to see the interest Ford is getting.
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