How many will look into the F-150 Lightning?

[mark95476]

The mudders that CT will be running will require something like a winch to handle. The wheels and tires shown here are heavy, but can still be handled by most able bodied persons.

Another feature from Ford Lightning that I wish Tesla would have designed: Spare tire!!!!


Photo: Detroit News (paywall)

 

[jboy210]

The other thing I really like on the f-150 is the frunk and the fact that the “grill” is attached. Perfect for short people. #ShortPeopleProblems

View attachment 664621

The frunk is something Ford really got right. Not only can you load and unload easily, but it has AC power outlets for powering tools, and drains so you can hose it out.

 

[Tam]

Interesting, certainly no reason it couldn't, other than I would expect them to need to revise any battery warranties to account for the excess wear.

Remember when Tesla Legal Counsel said that its eMMC for MCU doesn't die prematurely? He said it's just designed to die around 5-6 years. That's because Tesla new car warranty is 4 years so I guess 5-6 years is not premature.

Similarly, I think Ford has thought through its battery warranty and decided that 8 years or 100,00 miles for 70% Battery capacity is doable even in the case of daily electric price arbitrage.

Tesla S/X battery warranty is 8 years or 150,00 miles (70% capacity), so for Ford, it just reduces the 150,000 down to 100,000 miles for wear and tear.

Tesla Powerwall warranty is 10 years, so 8 years for Ford means it has already taken into account the wear and tear.

I'm not sold on the practicality though, since those buying it as a work vehicle are more likely to be out working with the vehicle rather than having it adorn their garage.

For those who are single and leave their homes empty during work, there's no need to leave their truck behind to power an empty house.

More importantly, whenever they are home with their truck parked, they want to enjoy the electric convenience while they are at home.

For those who are a couple (and 1 stays at home most of the time), they might want to think about 2 trucks instead of 1. That is not very unreasonable because I see quite a few families already having at least 2 Tesla cars.

 

[jboy210]

Ford already thought about "arbitrage": to use its truck's battery for utility consumers to "buy low, sell high":

"Revolutionary Power At Home

Debuting on F-150 Lightning is available Ford Intelligent Backup Power, turning your truck into the ultimate power source for your home. With the ability to offload 9.6 kilowatts of power, Ford Intelligent Backup Power keeps the lights on during an outage while providing security by powering home appliances, security systems and more.

“Whether sheltering during a storm or trying to stay safe in a heat wave, customers can now use their truck to give themselves power when they need it most,” said Ryan O’Gorman, electric vehicle manager, Strategic Partnerships. “F-150 Lightning is built for seamless transitions between charging your vehicle and powering your house when needed – and Ford is the first in the U.S. to offer this capability on an electric truck.”

With Ford Intelligent Backup Power, enabled by the available 80-amp Ford Charge Station Pro and home management system Ford can help install, F-150 Lightning automatically kicks in to power your house. Once power is restored, the truck automatically reverts to charging its battery. Based on an average 30kWh of use per day, F-150 Lightning with extended-range battery provides full-home power for up to three days, or as long as 10 days if power is rationed, with results varying based on energy usage.

In the future, Ford will introduce Ford Intelligent Power, which can use the truck to power homes during high-cost, peak-energy hours while taking advantage of low-cost overnight rates to charge the vehicle in time for your morning drive. This can help save money on electricity that powers your vehicle and home while also taking pressure off the grid in peak usage times.

Ford is also teaming up with the nation's leading solar company, Sunrun, to facilitate easy installation of the 80-amp Ford Charge Station Pro and home integration system. Through this collaboration, customers will also have the opportunity to install solar energy on their home, enabling them to power their household with clean, affordable energy and charge their F-150 Lightning with the power of the sun."

This is not arbitrage in the traditional sense since it is not selling electricity purchased low rate times power back to the grid during peak price periods.

 

[Tam]

This is not arbitrage in the traditional sense since it is not selling electricity purchased low rate times power back to the grid during peak price periods.

True!

Traditional "arbitrage" is done for profits so this is more about "saving" in spending (buying at a less expensive rate and not buying at a more expensive rate), and that "spending" is not "profit".

It's just like if I buy something at the restaurant then the parking is free. That's a saving, not a profit even though I don't have to pay for the parking.

 

[Krazaak]

For those who are single and leave their homes empty during work, there's no need to leave their truck behind to power an empty house.

More importantly, whenever they are home with their truck parked, they want to enjoy the electric convenience while they are at home.

For those who are a couple (and 1 stays at home most of the time), they might want to think about 2 trucks instead of 1. That is not very unreasonable because I see quite a few families already having at least 2 Tesla cars.

I was actually referring to using it as storage for solar or taking maximum advantage of TOU metering. Both of those really need the storage to be there during the day to be most useful. You could certainly go the multiple truck route, it would be interesting to see a cost comparison between having a 2nd Lightning vs. a couple of powerwalls and a daily driver.

 

[jboy210]

True!

Traditional "arbitrage" is done for profits so this is more about "saving" in spending (buying at a less expensive rate and not buying at a more expensive rate), and that "spending" is not "profit".

It's just like if I buy something at the restaurant then the parking is free. That's a saving, not a profit even though I don't have to pay for the parking.

What Ford is trying to make a big deal about is pretty much how any solar + battery system works.

Also, I think we need to see what the restrictions are in doing this. These cycles can impact the lifespan and upper capacity of the battery as they are additional charge/discharge cycles. I wonder if the battery warranty will have some restrictions or caveats on powering your home (or even tools) with the vehicle battery.

 

[Tam]

Also, I think we need to see what the restrictions are in doing this. These cycles can impact the lifespan and upper capacity of the battery as they are additional charge/discharge cycles. I wonder if the battery warranty will have some restrictions or caveats on powering your home (or even tools) with the vehicle battery.

No doubt. Warranty restrictions, wear and tear would likely be already covered as on post #123 above.

 

[FLRifleman]

I'll be watching it as well as the Cybertruck.

Both base models are priced the same, except the Cybertruck has more stated range. I prefer the dual displays in the F-150, we'll see what comes with the CT. I want to see some real world data on how speed and towing affect the range on both. Battery longevity and serviceability will play a large factor. Having to spend over 10k to replace the entire battery instead of a failed module is unacceptable to me unless the battery is highly durable (15 years/300k). The generator function, somewhat similar to the F-150 hybrid is also intriguing. I would prefer the stainless steel body of the Cybertruck for longevity/durability. My next vehicle really needs to be a pickup due to changing needs.

 

[dazedNconfuzed]

the middleman, stealerships will tack on a minimum $10,000 / $15,000 - because many get a $7,500 tax credit, not to mention possible state incentives. In the world of middlemen, they rationalize you'll pay, or get out.

And thus an underdiscussed reason to buy Tesla: no dealer.
We've been looking for an ICE truck/SUV for a while, and every contact with a sales critter has been dreadful. Should we follow thru with a purchase, thousands in quibbling fees and obnoxious negotiations, just so we can pick from what happens to be on-site.
Tesla: select options, Apple Pay, done.

 

[Tam]

...Having to spend over 10k to replace the entire battery instead of a failed module is unacceptable to me...

How did you get such bargain price of $10,000?

As of 2/24/2021, the price quote for 2012 Model 85 kW battery pack is $22,000.

 

[FLRifleman]

How did you get such bargain price of $10,000?

As of 2/24/2021, the price quote for 2012 Model 85 kW battery pack is $22,000.

I did say "over"...
Yes, I know it's actually much more painful, which just makes the point that more poignant.

 

[jboy210]

No doubt. Warranty restrictions, wear and tear would likely be already covered as on post #123 above.

My concern is a decrease beyond the waranty values in #123 if you use the car as a power source often.

 

[Tam]

My concern is a decrease beyond the waranty values in #123 if you use the car as a power source often.

The decrease of Ford warranty has been built-in and I doubt Ford would further decrease its warranty with the present terms:

Ford has decreased its battery warranty from Tesla's 150,000 miles down to only 100,00 miles. That's a 50,000 miles decrease.

Ford has decreased its years from Tesla PowerWall of 10 years down to only 8 years. That's 2 years decrease.

 

[jboy210]

The decrease of Ford warranty has been built-in and I doubt Ford would further decrease its warranty with the present terms:

Ford has decreased its battery warranty from Tesla's 150,000 miles down to only 100,00 miles. That's a 50,000 miles decrease.

Ford has decreased its years from Tesla PowerWall of 10 years down to only 8 years. That's 2 years decrease.

Well, Tesla went from Unlimited miles to 150,000 miles. Experience with the actual battery life changed that. I would not be too surprised to see Ford make reductions if they start having a lot of warranty replacements dues to V2H or power tool operations.

 

[qdeathstar]

I link the supercharger network and look of the cybertruck. I don’t really think he F-150 and cybertruck are super direct competitors. Certainly they’ll compete... but the person who is torn between what Ford is offering and what cybertruck is is rare. I think Ford is more competing with rivian...

 

[SO16]

Well, Tesla went from Unlimited miles to 150,000 miles. Experience with the actual battery life changed that. I would not be too surprised to see Ford make reductions if they start having a lot of warranty replacements dues to V2H or power tool operations.

Yes but the unlimited miles probably only really affected the people using their Tesla as a Taxi. I can see why Tesla changed theirs from unlimited to 150k for s/x.

 

[jboy210]

Yes but the unlimited miles probably only really affected the people using their Tesla as a Taxi. I can see why Tesla changed theirs from unlimited to 150k for s/x.

The issue is that companies make predictions on what would be the correct warranty period. And then reality comes along when people use the vehicle in different ways, and shows them they were wrong and they need to reduce the warranty coverage.

 

[rhumbliner]

And thus an underdiscussed reason to buy Tesla: no dealer.

I’ve been screaming this on every Tesla forum.

 

[TessP100D]

Nope. And I don't want a generator either

Well you’re *sugar* out of luck then. If Musk thought it was a good idea then He would be in favor of VTG but he’s not. End of story. Wishing and hoping won’t get it done either. It’s very simple. If you need back up power for grid issues, get a back up generator. If power goes down And you don’t have a back up generator, simply get in your Tesla and drive away.
there you go. Make a plan, work the plan.