Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

How many will look into the F-150 Lightning?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
That's how all fast charging works, it drops off fairly quickly as your SoC rises. Hence why chasing higher and higher peak charging rates is kind of silly until battery tech gets enough energy density to warrant it. Usually it's the car's battery chemistry that is the limiting factor in charging, not the station, the exception being for when you have a lower SoC.
I really hope the Lightning's curve isn't as bad as the Mach-E's. From the videos I've seen, it drops to about 12 kW at 80% and takes a long, long time to get from 80-100%. Out of Spec Motoring showed a total charge time of two hours from 0-100%, which isn't a scenario many are likely to face. But that 80%+ taper is brutal and I really hope they refine that on the Lightning.
 
I am in the process of installing PV at my home with a SunnyBoy SMA inverter that has a 2 kW AC output I can use if the grid goes down but the PV array is generating. If that type of functionality ever became common, I can imagine a 3rd party product that has a J1772 on one end and a connection to either a gateway or the inverter itself. The PV array could feed the car battery, or the car battery could feed the house when the PV is inadequate.

Sol-Ark inverter has 12kW solar input, and 9.6 kW output (quite a bit more than the SMA) with generator input (which could be connected to F150 Lightning output) and is integrated with transfer switch to provide whole home backup and solar power. Normally, Sol-Ark is combined with a modest battery bank, but you could go very small battery bank, and implement the Ford as the generator, and charge the Ford from the secondary "dump load" output of the Sol-Ark. I think this solution is suitable for tiny home/trailers towed by F150 L's.

I like this guys videos:
 
I really hope the Lightning's curve isn't as bad as the Mach-E's. From the videos I've seen, it drops to about 12 kW at 80% and takes a long, long time to get from 80-100%. Out of Spec Motoring showed a total charge time of two hours from 0-100%, which isn't a scenario many are likely to face. But that 80%+ taper is brutal and I really hope they refine that on the Lightning.
I saw that too. If charging time on a trip is a concern, people need to adopt charging styles on trips more like Kyle from Out of Motoring does. Run down to high single-digit percentages and don't charge to much above 70%. This would help on Teslas, but is key for the Mach-E
 
I saw that too. If charging time on a trip is a concern, people need to adopt charging styles on trips more like Kyle from Out of Motoring does. Run down to high single-digit percentages and don't charge to much above 70%. This would help on Teslas, but is key for the Mach-E
Agreed. I think that hurts adoption though. It's good for people like you, me and others who understand this challenge, but it might be frustrating for others. And the F-150 should sell in droves, so this would be a good time to really iron those kinks out and make that taper a little easier to deal with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SmartElectric
Agreed. I think that hurts adoption though. It's good for people like you, me and others who understand this challenge, but it might be frustrating for others. And the F-150 should sell in droves, so this would be a good time to really iron those kinks out and make that taper a little easier to deal with.
If the issue is owner preception, Ford could do what some other companies have done and artificially limit the capacity of the battery. Then the vehicle would change fast to and indicated 90%, which is really 75% of the battery's capacity
 
I really hope the Lightning's curve isn't as bad as the Mach-E's. From the videos I've seen, it drops to about 12 kW at 80% and takes a long, long time to get from 80-100%. Out of Spec Motoring showed a total charge time of two hours from 0-100%, which isn't a scenario many are likely to face. But that 80%+ taper is brutal and I really hope they refine that on the Lightning.
My guess is they are starting with SUPER conservative values for peak charging rates until they have enough real-world data out on battery degradation to get more accurate numbers. The last thing they want is a bunch of people coming to their first EV and taking their ICE car refueling habits across. Then, a few years later, having a bunch of expensive warranty claims and potentially sinking their whole EV push before it really starts.

Note that Tesla approached things much in the same way, when I first got my Model 3 it peaked at like <150kW and definitely tapered off quicker. With trial and error they have now pushed the charging rate significantly up. I could be totally wrong, but my guess is they are being cautious, which is probably a good idea.
 
No charging network. Electrify America promised big things and haven't delivered anything yet.

300 mile range with 1000lb load but 500 without. Not sure I buy this.

I love they are doing it, but wouldn't even consider it on first gen. Cybertruck is a superior product on paper and will be in practice as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gowthamn
F-150 looks like a F-150. I never liked pickup trucks so never wanted one until I saw the cybertruck. Cybertruck was a shock to see at first, but after they hit it with a hammer, it grew on me, and I fell in love. it is different and I want a tough vehicle where I can park anywhere without worrying about door dings.

F-150 is just like any F-150 except cheaper to operate. Nice truck, and I bet F-150 fans will love and enjoy it. I like the Truck to Home powering for outages. Wish CT could do that too. I wish my Model 3 could do that.
 
No charging network. Electrify America promised big things and haven't delivered anything yet.

300 mile range with 1000lb load but 500 without. Not sure I buy this.

I love they are doing it, but wouldn't even consider it on first gen. Cybertruck is a superior product on paper and will be in practice as well.
Most of the F-150s that I see haul a few pieces of furniture from Ikea or a few bags of mulch from Home Depot once a year. The other 99.9% of the time they are used to run kids to school, go to the store, or commute to and from work. People buy them because you sit high, they have space, and you might need to haul something someday.
 
Except for the very cool 'Fronk' it clearly fails on every feature and benefit the Cybertruck offers.
Keep in mind that most people buy a car or truck based on fashion, not capability. My brother sold cars for a number of years and he knew from the start what car a customer was going to buy. They’d drool over the looks and then during the test drive they would discover the car didn’t fit their needs very well but the response was “We can live with that”.
 
Keep in mind that most people buy a car or truck based on fashion, not capability. My brother sold cars for a number of years and he knew from the start what car a customer was going to buy. They’d drool over the looks and then during the test drive they would discover the car didn’t fit their needs very well but the response was “We can live with that”.
The F-150 should also win on service after the sale. Tesla is at the bottom of the pack on that, and amazingly, getting worse.
 
Ford F150 Pros:
.Big frunk: 14.1 cubic feet, 400 pound capacity
.Motorized frunk: can be controlled by the app
.House power backup (setup with Sunrun)
.Plentiful outlets: Frunk: 4x 120V20A, 1x USB-C, 1x USB-C, Cab: 2x 120V20A,(and others not listed such as cigarette lighter outlet...), Bed: 4x 120V20A, 1x240V
.$7,500 Federal Tax Credit is still available for Ford EV

Ford F150 Cons:
.Range of 300 miles is still 200 miles short of CyberTruck (500 miles)
.150kW Fast DC while CyberTruck is 250 Fast DC
.non-Ford Fast DC chargers while Tesla has its own Tesla Superchargers

I am very much tempted to get Ford because there are more pros than cons.
A very thorough comparison.

 
Keep in mind the range on the F-150 is super underrated and the range on Tesla's are super idealistic (flat ground in a California spring or something). Ford has said their range is based on a 1000 pound load, with climate control going in cold weather and different "real world" factors. Makes sense since their customer base will no doubt be filled with a bunch of first time EV owners and they don't want thousands of complaints about not getting the rated range. Everyone knows gas car EPA ratings are BS, but not everybody knows the same thing applies to EV's, and given the difference in infrastructure, one is a much bigger deal.

My 2019 Model 3 gets 400km in the summer but only 250km in a very mild winter (usually above freezing). I personally appreciate how Porsche took a similar approach with their range rating. Comparing super optimistic ratings to a real world scenario is an apples to oranges comparison, so until we actually get an F-150 into a real world range test, we should probably hold off on judging it's range. The Taycan range is bad on paper, but close to the current Model S in reality.
 
Interesting to see how many current Tesla owners are ordering this f-150 ev critter.
Except for the very cool 'Fronk' it clearly fails on every feature and benefit the Cybertruck offers.
Competition like this just makes the overall Tesla concepts and engineering look even better than ever.
I'm about mid-pack with my CT order. Happy to wait patiently.
I disagree with this. Especially when comparing two yet to be released trucks.
 
Tesla's efficiency can't be beat. Even 10 years the MS doesn't have any competitors and the gap is only increasing.

It's warm here and my 2020 LR MY is getting excellent efficiency going up and down 2500ft mountains to the ocean and back. I think EPA efficiency is 28 kWh/100 miles or ~250 Wh/mi. This is what I got today.

MY_efficiency_5_31_2021.jpg


Ford... Yeah, whatever... :rolleyes: Mustang has a 99kWh battery and skinny 225 tires. I'm expect similar stuff with F150 to game things and eek out a "win".
Taycan... Yeah, whatever... :rolleyes: Need to spec special narrow tires to get that range. Check out the Japanese EV races. Taycan always finishes after the Tesla M3s.


Keep in mind the range on the F-150 is super underrated and the range on Tesla's are super idealistic (flat ground in a California spring or something). Ford has said their range is based on a 1000 pound load, with climate control going in cold weather and different "real world" factors. Makes sense since their customer base will no doubt be filled with a bunch of first time EV owners and they don't want thousands of complaints about not getting the rated range. Everyone knows gas car EPA ratings are BS, but not everybody knows the same thing applies to EV's, and given the difference in infrastructure, one is a much bigger deal.

My 2019 Model 3 gets 400km in the summer but only 250km in a very mild winter (usually above freezing). I personally appreciate how Porsche took a similar approach with their range rating. Comparing super optimistic ratings to a real world scenario is an apples to oranges comparison, so until we actually get an F-150 into a real world range test, we should probably hold off on judging it's range. The Taycan range is bad on paper, but close to the current Model S in reality.
 
A very thorough comparison.

I like this video. Nice job.
a couple of thoughts to add.
1. Range is king. But remember you don’t charge to 100% unless you are going on a long trip so less range can be expected for daily use.
2. Range is king. Don’t forget to calculate range loss due to battery degradation.
3. FSD, it will never happen. Save your money and quit thinking about it.
 
FSD is only missing autosteer city and there are lots of FSDbeta videos on YouTube.

I use AP and FSD features all the time like green light chime, traffic light and stop sign recognition, and auto lane change. I don't care about autosteer city, NoA, or summon. Autosteer city will be a nice to have if and when I start traveling to new places, but I generally navigate myself and only allow the car to go "straight".

3. FSD, it will never happen. Save your money and quit thinking about it.
 
Tesla's efficiency can't be beat. Even 10 years the MS doesn't have any competitors and the gap is only increasing.
...Mustang has a 99kWh battery and skinny 225 tires. I'm expect similar stuff with F150 to game things and eek out a "win".

You don't realize how your post is a POSTITIVE for the F150 IMHO.

Let's do the math.
Ford needs 30% more battery for the same range as Tesla (you said it).
This means a 230 mile range Ford has the same battery size as a 300 mile range Tesla. Fair? 230*1.3=300

Towing range for large travel trailers is dominated by air resistance.
Ford and Tesla will have similar rolling resistance. Therefore, towing range for either truck will depend on battery capacity.

Therefore, math suggests the base Ford and AWD Cybertruck will have identical towing range, and we already know those two are going to be close in price.