Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

How many will look into the F-150 Lightning?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
My model 3 gets ~300
depends on your market. Y is aimed at literally every potential luxury crossover buyer. I have acquaintances with Y on order or already delivered who were previously shopping for just about any brand you think of and they were all cross shopping X5/Macan/Range Rover/You name it. The pricing on those drives the pricing on Y and their pricing is ridiculous so, Y’s is too. Tesla has also lowered prices in the past and I think those times will come again.

Cybertruck is ostensibly aimed at an entirely different market. Ford sells a really nice $55k Explorer ST right alongside an extremely nice $55k F150. Elon and every other economist who studies the industry has repeatedly said the $100k+ range is not a sustainable place to sell into - it’s a halo range, a place to harvest some profit from and use as a test bed for new tech applications that can be applied down the range at scale if they pan out. This is how Honda civics got lane keeping and auto wipers and cruise control and airbags and so on.

Cybertruck doesn’t seem intended as a halo vehicle - it seems to me to be intended to be a volume utility to sell alongside a volume passenger vehicle. So I think there’s still a real chance they’ll hit the same base price mark Ford has hit, with similar or better capabilities to the extended range battery in the Ford, but with a smaller battery, and I think the top spec will be significantly more expensive with a battery on par with the F150’s which is 131kwh usable, 140+ total. 150 isn’t an outlandish pack size at all for this class of vehicle that will be lucky, even with Tesla’s efficiency expertise and the aero advantages of the shape, to get to 400wh/mi at 70mph. And there’s room for quite a lot of price spread on such a large vehicle while still making money on all of them, even the cheapest of them. Base contractor spec F150’s are not loss-leaders. They sell too many of those for that to be sustainable for the half century they have been doing this.
My model 3 gets 235-250 running 55mph and 300-325 Wh/mi running 70mph. In comparison the cyber truck is massive. I will be surprised if their rated range is at <400wh/mi. My bet is running 70 mph it will be over 500 possibly well over 500. Battery drivetrain experts yes, aerodynamics, not so much. The legacy automotive companies have been doing wind tunnel testing/tuning since before Elon was born.
 
Last edited:
Yes, Due to their battery, software, and drivetrain tech like I mentioned.
Are you saying Tesla doesn't make aerodynamic vehicles? The Model S is one of the lowest Cd production cars ever. And every Tesla model has a very low Cd. The F150 lightning is like 0.46, compared to the Rivian at 0.30. Modeling says 0.48 for the Cybertruck, but Musk says it will be more like 0.30 and some modelling has it much lower than 0.48 at least 0.40 or a little below.

So, I guess you can add aerodynamics to your list, unless you can come up with legacy examples that show different data?
 
Are you saying Tesla doesn't make aerodynamic vehicles? The Model S is one of the lowest Cd production cars ever. And every Tesla model has a very low Cd. The F150 lightning is like 0.46, compared to the Rivian at 0.30. Modeling says 0.48 for the Cybertruck, but Musk says it will be more like 0.30 and some modelling has it much lower than 0.48 at least 0.40 or a little below.

So, I guess you can add aerodynamics to your list, unless you can come up with legacy examples that show different data?
They do but nothing different then anyone else. Many cars from the 1940’s and 1950’s had very low CD’s due to popular styling at the time: rounded profile, rear wheel spats, moon hub caps,…. The 1947 Saab 92 had a cd of 0.30 and more recently the GM EV1 Cd was 0.19 in the 1990’s. To put those into comparison the original MS is 0.24 the new one is 0.21.

Ford favored traditional styling to aero with the f150. Heck Tesla favors styling. The MS Cd would likely be lower with rear wheel spats and 16 or 17” rims.

Also don’t forget a lower cd dosn’t mean an object has less air resistance. As air resistance is a function of surface area/velocity/density/Cd. Given this if the 1947 Saab mentioned above is motoring along at 55 mph side by side with a 2022 Model S both cars are experiencing almost the same air resistance.
 
Last edited:
The F-150 impresses me as a good choice for an EV pickup. My needs of a car with pickup truck utility and environmental responsibility are met. Compared with the Cybertruck, honestly either one, in the end, is a good choice for me. Debating the various differences is fun, but....

However! I have absolutely zero desire to engage the dealership model, considering these stories:


No wonder I read how consumers hold car dealers in low esteem. Life's too short to deal with people like these. As for me, my local dealer adds anywhere from 3-6K on every car the have, and I haven't priced a F-150 from them yet. Maybe I will, but I suspect the visit will be short.

So I believe to argue "F-150 starts at $39,974" so it is less than a Cybertruck is disingenuous. I suspect there are examples of some dealers really selling at MSRP (with no documentation/prep/processing fees), but I don't think they're the norm, and most buyers will experience predatory pricing. Not for me, I have a choice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KJD and rhumbliner
Those mark ups are just sad and doing a disservice to Ford.

However when this exact topic came up in another EV thread a poster said they would rather pay an extra $3K on top of MSRP to a local dealer to keep money in their local community, rather than overpay for a Tesla to enrichen the world's literally richest man.

He made a reasonable point, quite frankly.

The issue I have of paying over MSRP is once the market returns to normal, that will be lost money as resale value will be based off of MSRP.
 
Those mark ups are just sad and doing a disservice to Ford.

However when this exact topic came up in another EV thread a poster said they would rather pay an extra $3K on top of MSRP to a local dealer to keep money in their local community, rather than overpay for a Tesla to enrichen the world's literally richest man.

He made a reasonable point, quite frankly.

The issue I have of paying over MSRP is once the market returns to normal, that will be lost money as resale value will be based off of MSRP.
And I feel 100% the opposite of where I’d prefer the money to go.

I would rather Tesla get all that markup and put it back into the business/product rather than the local dealer that would maybe give away a fractional percentage to the community and the rest for who knows what.
 
And I feel 100% the opposite of where I’d prefer the money to go.

I would rather Tesla get all that markup and put it back into the business/product rather than the local dealer that would maybe give away a fractional percentage to the community and the rest for who knows what.
Agreed completely. My opinion is local dealerships are like vampires they suck money from the consumer and provide no real value. Their rude obnoxious haggle negotiation system is outdated and needs to go away. Their repair prices are universally insanely marked up.

They provide no actual net value to end consumers, why on earth would anyone *want* to give them money?
 
Agreed completely. My opinion is local dealerships are like vampires they suck money from the consumer and provide no real value. Their rude obnoxious haggle negotiation system is outdated and needs to go away. Their repair prices are universally insanely marked up.

They provide no actual net value to end consumers, why on earth would anyone *want* to give them money?
Well another side. The majority may be, but Not all dealers are terrible. What is lost from the bad one is customer service. Case in point. Mercedes Benz of Anchorage. For years they were awesome! Even though I only bought a new vehicle from them about ~10 years. My salesman knew me, sent me birthday cards. They Invited me to events. I had the same service advisor for 15 years, that Would pick up and drop off my car for service,…. Made me never want to own anything but a MB. Then the dealership sold. Complete 180, new staff every time I went in, no one cared, no one appreciated unless you were currently buying,….

Our society is moving more and more to a direct to consumer retail model (thanks Amazon). Just look at bike shops closing left and right. But there is still value is good customer service and those that provide I hope can still stay relevant.
 
EV versions.
That remains to be seen. Will traditional GM and Ford pickup buyers opt for the comparable EV? Will those EV trucks be of high quality and have suitable range? Can GM and Ford produce a high volume of BEV pickups?

Cybertruck is still vaporware. The production date keeps getting pushed back (now mid-year 2023). This delay is giving Ford and GM a chance to prove that they can make a successful BEV pickup truck.

You never know what will happen with the release of a new vehicle model. Rivian is having fit and finish issues. There are a number of online accounts of those problems and Google will find them for you.
 
EV versions.
If the cyber truck ever makes it to market this will be a new space for Tesla. It will be the first time that Tesla is the one who was late to the game. The others will have at least a 1 to 2 year Headstart in the market. Also it’s important to remember that truck buyers are insanely brand loyal. My guess is if Tesla does eventually get the cyber truck to market they will pirate very few sales from GM, Ford, Dodge, Toyota loyalists. Especially if those brands have an EV truck first.
 
If the cyber truck ever makes it to market this will be a new space for Tesla. It will be the first time that Tesla is the one who was late to the game. The others will have at least a 1 to 2 year Headstart in the market. Also it’s important to remember that truck buyers are insanely brand loyal. My guess is if Tesla does eventually get the cyber truck to market they will pirate very few sales from GM, Ford, Dodge, Toyota loyalists. Especially if those brands have an EV truck first.
We will see. You can be loyalist as much as you want but I bet people won’t be buying a lot of F150 and Chevy trucks with price sticker above 100k Let alone legacy unable to scale production or get enough parts for their EVs. Did you see how well Mach E sells right now? It not even in the same ball park with Tesla.
 
We will see. You can be loyalist as much as you want but I bet people won’t be buying a lot of F150 and Chevy trucks with price sticker above 100k Let alone legacy unable to scale production or get enough parts for their EVs. Did you see how well Mach E sells right now? It not even in the same ball park with Tesla.
If Mach E was the first EV crossover and had been out 2-3 years before the model 3 sales would have looked very different. The CT will be at least 2-3 years behind the Rivian and f150 lightning.

Now if the CT would have been released at least ~3 years ahead of the competition (like tesla has been with every other new model) they would have dominated the market.
 
If Mach E was the first EV crossover and had been out 2-3 years before the model 3 sales would have looked very different. The CT will be at least 2-3 years behind the Rivian and f150 lightning.

Now if the CT would have been released at least ~3 years ahead of the competition (like tesla has been with every other new model) they would have dominated the market.
Again, amount they are making is nothing compare to what Tesla will make. Also it looks like Cybertruck production will start next June. F150 just started this spring so it will be little over year head start.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SO16
If Mach E was the first EV crossover and had been out 2-3 years before the model 3 sales would have looked very different. The CT will be at least 2-3 years behind the Rivian and f150 lightning.

Now if the CT would have been released at least ~3 years ahead of the competition (like tesla has been with every other new model) they would have dominated the market.
GM Bolt beat the Tesla Model 3 to market. We can see how that worked out.