How much abuse can the M3Ps drive unit take?

[golfcart]

He thing is, torque can’t actually ramp up that quickly on these vehicles (hence the 1.7-1.8 60ft times, rather than the 1.4s-1.5s you’d expect with this much power). Just as importantly, the drive systems are incredibly good at cutting power at the tiniest indication of wheel slip, wheel hop, or even just hitting a bump under load. Shock loads break hard parts like CVS and axles, and there are almost none coming out of our drive units!

I have never had car with this much power but I’ve ruined axles on some of my cars that only had ~2.0 60ft times. Of course there are no 5000rpm clutch dumps happening with the model 3.

Good point on the advantages that come from the computer cutting power in certain situations.

 

[Resist]

Keep in mind what Tesla says about the usage and the warranty. Read this section of the owner's manual. Keep min mind all the data Tesla has access to in your car.

"The vehicle warranty does not cover damage caused by excessive overuse of vehicle components. It also does not cover racing, autocross, or driving in competition."

Model 3 Owner's Manual | Tesla

Understand how to use Track mode to optimize performance when driving on a closed circuit race track.

www.tesla.com

I find it interesting that Tesla sells performance cars with track mode and Plaid cars, that were designed to do exactly what their warranty won't cover.

 

[Lindenwood]

I find it interesting that Tesla sells performance cars with track mode and Plaid cars, that were designed to do exactly what their warranty won't cover.

I would honestly expect the same from most manufacturers, unfortunately.

 

[tm1v2]

I find it interesting that Tesla sells performance cars with track mode and Plaid cars, that were designed to do exactly what their warranty won't cover.

That is every car maker. Yes including for performance editions of vehicles.

Everything is a wear item and breaks on racecars. Warranties are meant to cover defects, not wear, as I understand them. Warranty coverage for NN,NNN miles of racing would be prohibitively expensive.

 

[gearchruncher]

That is every car maker. Yes including for performance editions of vehicles.

Subaru was even famous for a few years for giving you a free membership to the SCCA if you bought an STi.
They then voided your warranty if you used that membership.

Here's Mitsu voiding warranties for the same thing:

Evo Owners Decry Warranty Rejections

Evo owners decry warranty rejections.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[Resist]

Everything is a wear item and breaks on racecars. Warranties are meant to cover defects, not wear, as I understand them.

True, but if you sell a track ready vehicle, which should use beefier components, then it should hold up under those conditions and early wear would be a defect.

 

[gearchruncher]

True, but if you sell a track ready vehicle, which should use beefier components, then it should hold up under those conditions and early wear would be a defect.

The presence of a track mode does not indicate that Tesla is selling you a "track ready" vehicle.

 

[Resist]

The presence of a track mode does not indicate that Tesla is selling you a "track ready" vehicle.

I would disagree, especially the Model S Plaid. If a Tesla performance car isn't "track ready", then there is no need for track mode software in the car or crazy stupid acceleration.

 

[gearchruncher]

I would disagree, especially the Model S Plaid. If a Tesla performance car isn't "track ready", then there is no need for track mode software in the car or crazy stupid acceleration.

What street car in the world do you believe is sold as "track ready" and carries a full warranty on track?

At what acceleration does a car switch from being a street car to needing to carry a track warranty?
A real track car comes with a roll cage and 5 point seat belts.

Which track are we talking about? Your local go-cart track? Laguna Seca? Nurburgring? How many laps? In what weather?

What track are you taking your Plaid to?
Where did Tesla advertise to you the car was "track ready"? Because the manual specifically says this in the track mode section, and I'm pretty sure Tesla doesn't advertise track mode:

CAUTION
Any vehicle damage or injuries caused by using Track Mode is the driver's responsibility. The vehicle warranty does not cover damage caused by excessive overuse of vehicle components. It also does not cover racing, autocross, or driving in competition.

 

[Resist]

What street car in the world do you believe is sold as "track ready" and carries a full warranty on track?

I never said any street car sold this way carried a full warranty. I said it's interesting they don't warranty a vehicle for the purpose of doing something they advertise it for. What other purpose does the track mode software have, but to be used on a racing track. Any auto manufacturer shouldn't build a vehicle with racing in mind and also include software that encourages people to use it, but then say it's not covered under the warranty if they do what it was designed it to do. And Tesla for sure should cover the car when used this way and obviously not cover it if the car was altered or exceeded its design limits.

 

[gearchruncher]

Any auto manufacturer shouldn't build a vehicle with racing in mind and also include software that encourages people to use it, but then say it's not covered under the warranty if they do what it was designed it to do.

Wait until you find out about SUV's with off road modes!
Do you take your car on the track?

 

[Resist]

Wait until you find out about SUV's with off road modes!
Do you take your car on the track?

My Model 3 isn't a performance model and doesn't have track mode.

 

[gearchruncher]

My Model 3 isn't a performance model and doesn't have track mode.

Well than thanks for being so concerned about us that do.
You should take a car to the track sometime and consider how much more companies would need to charge if they had to cover both performance numbers and wear and tear from competition events.

 

[golfcart]

Interesting read from Hagerty on the topic. Some cars do offer limited track related warranty but typically have a lot of exclusions and basically none cover actual car vs car racing.

Will your new-car warranty cover track driving? - Hagerty Media

Yes… and mostly no.

www.hagerty.com

I think it’s cool that Tesla offers track mode for folks that want to use it. We’re adults and can decide if it is worth taking the car on the track and assuming the risk that come with that… I don’t expect them to warranty it if I choose to take that risk.

 

[Mikecm1]

Apologies, if this is in the wrong section.

I have a 2020 M3P with about 35K miles on it. I drive it hard a lot. Each journey usually requires a few full launches and occasionally track use.

With an ICE car the diffs sometimes fail, not all the time but occasionally. I was wondering if anyone has any idea how many launches etc the M3P can take. As, of course, the initial torque is on a different level to 99% of ICE cars and I am worried that I am going to have the equivalent of a diff failing if I don't respect the car. I'm not too clued up as to whether there is a diff or power converter or drive unit thingy. I ask this, as my warranty runs out in December and don't want a large bill, as I will be getting a model S Plaid if it ever gets released in England and apparently it could be arriving in the UK a few months after my warranty runs out. My luck would suggest both the front and rear motors going bang a month after my warranty runs out.

Sorry for the silly question, I just wondered if the M3P is as bullet proof as it has been since the day I got it or whether I should take it more easy and lauch less... maybe only when I when I want to embarrass someone at the lights.

I’m at 32k on my LR and I also drive it hard, almost always. I figure I’d rather push the car as much as possible until I approach 50k miles / warranty expiring, so I’ll have a higher likelihood of issues that would have been deferred otherwise.

 

[DayTrippin]

i’m not sure I necessarily subscribe to that philosophy. Suppose the product had a lifespan of 100K miles, under normal circumstances. Now I drive it more aggressively for the first 50K miles under warranty.

Maybe I didn't break it but did shorten the lifespan enough to break within the first 50K, but after it and before the targeted 100K.

There is also a difference between use and abuse. I probably adjudicated several thousand warranty claims while I worked at a large automotive manufacture. I got pretty good at sniffing out the BS and looking for the telltale signs of abuse.

 

[Lindenwood]

Of course there are no 5000rpm clutch dumps happening with the model 3.

Yup! While I’d love the ability to spin the rears on power alone, the flip side is I’ll probably never break an axle with any amount of abuse.

 

[Lindenwood]

Now that I have a little more time to articulate my position, here is an article on a Model 3 oil change where they sent the fluid to Blackstone Labs:

Tesla Model 3 - Oil Change

Yes you read that correctly, you can change the oil in your Tesla Model 3, but it's not the engine oil you normally think of when changing oil in your ICE vehicles. Let me explain: The electric motor (Drive Unit) in your Tesla uses oil to lubricate and cool the gear reduction and differential...

www.thedriveway.us

Interestingly, in the rear drive unit, they did measure reduced viscosity along with increased insolubles which they attributed to heat. (Of course, my original point was that heat eventually reduces a fluid’s ability to provide lubrication, even if we got caught up on the use of “lubricity” (the actual desired fluid characteristic) instead of “viscosity” (a directly-measurable property that can correlate to lubricity). For the front drive unit, they did not measure a significant reduction in viscosity, but “insolubles were high enough to show heavy oxidation of the fluid due to heat and use.”

So yes,

1) a Model 3 DU can generate enough heat in the fluid to fluid degrade its viscosity and presumably lubricity;

2) a Model 3 DU can generate enough heat to significantly oxidize the fluid, presumably reducing lubricity (even if viscosity stays within limits), and

3) ultimately, repeating my original point, the amount of heat and stress the DUs put on the fluid causes degradation that is far from zero, and this may indeed justify periodic changes as preventative maintenance with regular hard use.

 

[gearchruncher]

My question is how do we know it's heat that a rear drive unit cooler would help with, vs shear down that occurs between the gear teeth. Yes, this is a version of heat, but not one keeping the bulk fluid temps a bit lower would dramatically help with.

Which is why I asked what bulk fluid temps people were logging as they tracked the car.

 

[LoL-Gas]

Are there numerous model 3 performances that are having drive unit failures while tracking? I don't see the benefit in doing this much maintenance; seems like a waste of oil/lubricants/money. These things are built strong and monitors for issues. Full send it. Aside from obvious abuse, I'm sure Tesla would warranty any defects in their product.