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How much do I save in fuel costs over ICE? A lot, but at times it really depends....

Last settlement bill, we got paid 3.922 cents per kwh for our excess electricity.
Yeah, that's outrageous they can charge you $.54 to supply it but only $.03 to buy it back... and they're likely buying it back during peak hours when they need it the most.

I'd rather use the excess energy to power a model train set, or an LED light show, or some arcade cabinets that are only there for atmosphere.
 
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That's criminal. These anti-solar poison pills energy companies are *allowed* to adopt need to be eradicated by legislation. It should be based on the price they're currently charging customers, not a fraction thereof.
California wants to implement NEM3, which is going to be even worse. a proposed monthly $8 per kW grid access fee a "solar tax." Grandfather periods for NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0 would be reduced under the proposal. And the switch to a time-of-use rate structure, based on an avoided cost calculator, would slash the credit customers receive for sending surplus solar energy to the grid.
 
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California wants to implement NEM3, which is going to be even worse. a proposed monthly $8 per kW grid access fee a "solar tax." Grandfather periods for NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0 would be reduced under the proposal. And the switch to a time-of-use rate structure, based on an avoided cost calculator, would slash the credit customers receive for sending surplus solar energy to the grid.

Slimeballs. People should just start disconnecting from the grid. Perhaps figure out a way to pass that excess energy to their neighbors instead.
 
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Slimeballs. People should just start disconnecting from the grid. Perhaps figure out a way to pass that excess energy to their neighbors instead.
They're trying to force people into batteries as part of their solar. Store your electricity in the batteries for use during the highest TOU period from 4-9. Only problem is something like a Tesla Powerwall with its 13.5 kWh of electricity, costs $14-16k each installed. Our house would need two of them. That's a LOT of $$$.
 
We have essentially no saving vs ICE. Somewhat disappointing, but I'm still enjoying the car. Our home charging is currently billed at 33 cents/kWH, with projections that that will rise by 50-60% in the coming months with increasing natural gas prices due to the situation in Europe. Our ICE RAV4 at ~35 mpg average is under 10 cents per mile.

It's not obvious to me why our electric rates are so high compared to nearby states. Needless to say, I'm looking at expanding our existing solar array.
 
We have essentially no saving vs ICE. Somewhat disappointing, but I'm still enjoying the car. Our home charging is currently billed at 33 cents/kWH, with projections that that will rise by 50-60% in the coming months with increasing natural gas prices due to the situation in Europe. Our ICE RAV4 at ~35 mpg average is under 10 cents per mile.

It's not obvious to me why our electric rates are so high compared to nearby states. Needless to say, I'm looking at expanding our existing solar array.
You're rate are low compared to our rates in California! I'm paying $0.32 to $0.39 per kWh. My old NEM1 rate plan expires in 2026, after which I'll be forced into an even more expensive rate play. Right now NEM2 is $0.43 to $0.49 per kWh from 4-9pm, and $0.34 to $0.40 per kWh the rest of the time. NEM3 is coming and that's not only going to be even more expensive, they're going to charge folks with solar panels $8 per kWh of solar energy produced every month as an access fee!
 
This weekend I traveled in Florida, where supercharger rates were 43 cents per KWH. My lifetime MY average is 259 WH/mile. So, it cost me about 11 cents per mile to travel.

Average regular gas in FL today is $3.36. So a midsize car with, say 35 MPG, would spend just under 10 cents per mile. More efficient cars would be less.

Statistics are great, and can be misused. Supercharger rates vary by state and even by time of day. Everyone drives their Tesla differently. Gas prices vary widely. And when I charge at home I pay FAR less for charging, so I beat any ICE car out there in cost per mile. And...almost all of my charging is at home. And EVs of course have a significant world of advantages over fossil fuel vehicles; our Teslas are genuine American cars.

That all said, food for thought. My journey this weekend in Florida cost me more in energy costs than a midsize car. It was good to get home.
I, personally, would NEVER go back to a gas guzzler. Just having a quiet car is such a boon. Plus no dealing with messy gas and also oil changes. I feel a little freer knowing, in general, I am not contributing to the heating of the planet. Not tosay that there aren't issues that still need to be resolved.....And then, of course, there is the speed. When I have to get around a line of cars on the freeway, I know that I can. Boooya.
 
I, personally, would NEVER go back to a gas guzzler. Just having a quiet car is such a boon. Plus no dealing with messy gas and also oil changes. I feel a little freer knowing, in general, I am not contributing to the heating of the planet. Not tosay that there aren't issues that still need to be resolved.....And then, of course, there is the speed. When I have to get around a line of cars on the freeway, I know that I can. Boooya.
My MY is much noisier inside than my Subaru Ascent. The maintenance I need on my Ascent is oil changes. Dirt cheap to buy at half the cost of the Tesla, and dirt cheap to run on regular gas. Both cars are plenty fast. On the freeway, there's no material difference between 0-60 in 4.8 sec vs 0-60 in 7.5 sec. If I'm tracking a car, I'm taking my Porsche 911. Otherwise on the road, it's really a wash. The purported environmental cleanliness of EVs is a farce as most people realize at this point. Just being real here.
 
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Dennisis

Active Member
Supporting Member
Feb 11, 2020
1,178
1,227
Tucson
My MY is much noisier inside than my Subaru Ascent. The maintenance I need on my Ascent is oil changes. Dirt cheap to buy at half the cost of the Tesla, and dirt cheap to run on regular gas. Both cars are plenty fast. On the freeway, there's no material difference between 0-60 in 4.8 sec vs 0-60 in 7.5 sec. If I'm tracking a car, I'm taking my Porsche 911. Otherwise on the road, it's really a wash. The purported environmental cleanliness of EVs is a farce as most people realize at this point. Just being real here.
Not really sure of your point(s) here, nor the accuracy of your comments. But hey, you got to mention your Porsche 911 again so there's that I guess..... :rolleyes:
 
Not really sure of your point(s) here, nor the accuracy of your comments. But hey, you got to mention your Porsche 911 again so there's that I guess..... :rolleyes:
If you look up my post history, I have multiple threads where I've run the calculations on the cost for running my Ascent vs the MY. Have you run such calculations? Mine show that at best, on the freeway with a full load of people, driving at typical 70-80 mph speeds, with either heat or AC on, efficiency of the MYLR is well above 310 Wh/mi. That means that the differential between the use of gas and electricity on the West Coast is about 10%. That's not an earth shattering difference. Also one has to consider the opportunity cost of lost time while waiting for a charge. You may not value your time, but mine is very valuable. That's why we use our MY for around town driving where we can charge at home, while on long cross country road trips, we take the Ascent, which barley costs 10% more to run on the freeway, and we don't have to waste hours charging.

And spare me the the fanboy BS claiming that the MY is some sort of performance car. It's not. It's fast in a straight line which in most sports car drivers minds, does not equate to real performance. Also it's been well documented that the amount of pollution and energy used to create EVs is quite onerous. So claims of being "clean for the environment" aren't exactly accurate. I have different cars for different purposes. My F450 tows my big fifth wheel. My sports car is for fun. The Ascent is our secondary run-around car and freeway cruiser. The MY is our short-trip, errand car around town.
 
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Dennisis

Active Member
Supporting Member
Feb 11, 2020
1,178
1,227
Tucson
If you look up my post history, I have multiple threads where I've run the calculations on the cost for running my Ascent vs the MY. Have you run such calculations? Mine show that at best, on the freeway with a full load of people, driving at typical 70-80 mph speeds, with either heat or AC on, efficiency of the MYLR is well above 310 Wh/mi. That means that the differential between the use of gas and electricity on the West Coast is about 10%. That's not an earth shattering difference. Also one has to consider the opportunity cost of lost time while waiting for a charge. You may not value your time, but mine is very valuable. That's why we use our MY for around town driving where we can charge at home, while on long cross country road trips, we take the Ascent, which barley costs 10% more to run on the freeway, and we don't have to waste hours charging.

And spare me the the fanboy BS claiming that the MY is some sort of performance car. It's not. It's fast in a straight line which in most sports car drivers minds, does not equate to real performance. Also it's been well documented that the amount of pollution and energy used to create EVs is quite onerous. So claims of being "clean for the environment" aren't exactly accurate. I have different cars for different purposes. My F450 tows my big fifth wheel. My sports car is for fun. The Ascent is our secondary run-around car and freeway cruiser. The MY is our short-trip, errand car around town.
I’m sure we’re all happy for you. And I’m sure Jane4 is happy to not have to pump gas or change oil - why does that threaten you and your vehicle fleet?
 
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I’m sure we’re all happy for you. And I’m sure Jane4 is happy to not have to pump gas or change oil - why does that threaten you and your vehicle fleet

I’m sure we’re all happy for you. And I’m sure Jane4 is happy to not have to pump gas or change oil - why does that threaten you and your vehicle fleet?
LOL you have issues it appears. It seems I ruffled your feathers so much you chose to opine. Fanbois are like that. I merely pointed out that EVs are neither as clean nor as fuel efficient that some may believe. Bye Karen.
 
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They're trying to force people into batteries as part of their solar. Store your electricity in the batteries for use during the highest TOU period from 4-9. Only problem is something like a Tesla Powerwall with its 13.5 kWh of electricity, costs $14-16k each installed. Our house would need two of them. That's a LOT of $$$.
The other problem with Powerwalls is code requirements. In our area they have to be minimum 6 feet away from doors and windows. If they are in a garage they require a smoke detector or possibly a sprinkler system. On our house the there are very few places that are 6 feet away for doors and windows. I don't want to put it on a side of the house where it juts out on a sidewalk that we brings large things into the backyard like furniture or dirt.
The south side of the house is direct sun.
 
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This weekend I traveled in Florida, where supercharger rates were 43 cents per KWH. My lifetime MY average is 259 WH/mile. So, it cost me about 11 cents per mile to travel.

Average regular gas in FL today is $3.36. So a midsize car with, say 35 MPG, would spend just under 10 cents per mile. More efficient cars would be less.

Statistics are great, and can be misused. Supercharger rates vary by state and even by time of day. Everyone drives their Tesla differently. Gas prices vary widely. And when I charge at home I pay FAR less for charging, so I beat any ICE car out there in cost per mile. And...almost all of my charging is at home. And EVs of course have a significant world of advantages over fossil fuel vehicles; our Teslas are genuine American cars.

That all said, food for thought. My journey this weekend in Florida cost me more in energy costs than a midsize car. It was good to get home.
Just how is 50% of the country that doesn't have access to home charging supposed to pay to public charge their EV? One can buy a new Toyota Prius for almost half what a Tesla Model 3 costs, and will pay approximately half in gas and oil compared to exclusively supercharging a Tesla. even if you buy a Chevy Bolt, its still going to cost twice as much to drive.
I guess that means that in the next year or 2, gas is going to double or triple in price, just to make the math work out.
 
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If you’re using Superchargers, it’s going to be variable and likely similar to gas. If you’re charging at home, it’ll also be variable but likely cheaper than the average gas car at 30MPG. In my area I’m paying $.135/kw and I’m far ahead on costs for gas/power over the average car.

My last gas car was an Accord hybrid that got 46MPG. It was pretty cheap to drive but cost $35K. Before that, and Accord LX with a six-speed, and at 33MPG w/ a drive out price of $21K it was downright cheap over the long haul. My son has that one now.

Of course, my MYP costs well over double what the average car does…so overall it’s more expensive to drive. I am ok with that. I am lucky enough to be able to afford it, and I think it’s important to help push the market towards EVs. As more EVs get built and bought, they’ll get more affordable. For now, I’m OK paying a premium to help the planet - and have fun.
Average new car price in the US in August was $48,301.
 
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avs007

Active Member
May 14, 2021
1,374
1,259
PacNW
However when we take long road trips up to British Columbia, that's about an 1800 mile round trip. Now don't forget that with EVs, the efficiency goes down with speed and use of HVAC. While our efficiency may average 268 Wh/mi around town, we've seen as high as 390 Wh/mi on a hot day driving on the freeway.

So lets assume we're taking our typical summer trip up to BC. It's hot. We're going to be driving average speeds of 75 mph. Efficiency is not going to be 268 Wh/mi. It'll likely be about 330 Wh/mi. I think that's a reasonable assumption, since we typically have our three 11 yr old boys, wife, dog, and a ton of luggage with us. At 330 Wh/mi, we would get a range of about 227 miles on a full 75 kWh charge. So we would need to charge up 7.93 times to be able to go those 1800 miles (assuming we ran it to 0%, which of course we would not do).

Since supercharging is much more expensive, it would cost us $.60/kWh to charge while on the freeway on the West Coast.
It's not that bad... I just got back from a road trip up to BC. Superchargers are not 60 cents during peak, unless you are near the bay area.. I only paid 58 cents near Concord. Once I got to the 5 freeway, they are only 44 cents or somewhere close to that... In oregon and washington, none of the SC were more than 44 cents or so, even during peak hours. Even when I was charging in BC, I only drew $1.00/minute for 2 minutes. When I calculated the actual cost based on my invoice, I averaged 35 cents/kwh in BC.
 
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