How much do I save in fuel costs over ICE? A lot, but at times it really depends....

[Hookemhorns]

This weekend I traveled in Florida, where supercharger rates were 43 cents per KWH. My lifetime MY average is 259 WH/mile. So, it cost me about 11 cents per mile to travel.

Average regular gas in FL today is $3.36. So a midsize car with, say 35 MPG, would spend just under 10 cents per mile. More efficient cars would be less.

Statistics are great, and can be misused. Supercharger rates vary by state and even by time of day. Everyone drives their Tesla differently. Gas prices vary widely. And when I charge at home I pay FAR less for charging, so I beat any ICE car out there in cost per mile. And...almost all of my charging is at home. And EVs of course have a significant world of advantages over fossil fuel vehicles; our Teslas are genuine American cars.

That all said, food for thought. My journey this weekend in Florida cost me more in energy costs than a midsize car. It was good to get home.

 

[canasion35]

FL superchargers are by far the most expensive…I noticed that too on my recent trip to TN.

 

[bruce4000]

It does depend. I just finished sight seeing / vacationing over 800 miles up and down the Oregon Washington coast. I used PlugShare to find hotels with destination charging and was able to charge overnight for free (or more accurately no extra cost) at each location. Compare that to over $5.00 a gallon gas.

 

[father_of_6]

Just a few more factors to throw on the pile in favor of electric:

• The toxic fumes from gasoline and exhaust have hidden long-terms costs to your health.
• Electricity rates *should* be less volatile than gas, so although sometimes gas might be cheaper or on par, other times it'll be wildly more expensive.
• It's only even because you're paying higher commercial electric rates, which only come into play while traveling long distances.
• Over time, renewable energy sources *should* reduce our electric rates (crossing fingers though).
• Even at fuel cost parity, electric is more fun to drive

 

[Dennisis]

Many more "soft" factors to consider of course. What's the value of having a vehicle at the ready in your garage with with sufficient energy for your travels each day? Avoiding fueling lines at Costco? Peace of mind having a more reliable vehicle with many less systems to fail? Having a vehicle that gets updated over the air regularly? The joy of instant torque? Not adding to the traffic noise and clouds of smoke? (I'm thinking of you Mr. Mustang and Mr. Diesel) These are just the first that come to mind. Lot's more to consider than just the "fuel" costs.

 

[jcanoe]

Unless you live life on the road use your home kWh rate (off-peak rate where applicable) when comparing fuel costs. Superchargers cost approximately the same as gas. That along with tolls, etc. is part of the total cost of the trip.

I know that when I charge at home my cost is ~$0.16 per kWh. Lifetime efficiency is now 266 Wh/mi for 3.76 miles per kWh. My cost per mile is $0.043. After accounting for charging losses that is still less than ~$0.05 per mile.

 

[ElectricAnt54]

Noble attempt to compare costs when performing a long distance highway based road trip. Those mpg ratings are at a specific speed which is less than the typical highway speed. people tend to cruise 5-15mph faster than speed limits. So that 35mpg car probably wouldn’t get that rating. I suspect you drive your Tesla at higher speeds on highway than you would if in an efficient midsize 35mpg car (weaker slower engine / louder ride) . If you drive your Tesla at the same speeds as midsize 35mpg test case then it is a better comparison.
Also you need to take in to account your car tires. Do you have 21” low profile which is found on performance model y? Those offer significantly less efficient long distance rides than 19” wheels and now we have 18” wheels via third party. I have a performance model y and will get 18” wheels prior to my next big road trip.

 

[Big Earl]

FL superchargers are by far the most expensive…I noticed that too on my recent trip to TN.

California takes the crown for most expensive Superchargers. Currently 60¢ or more per kWh during high peak.

 

[Mateo83]

I did some research finding hotels, wineries, casinos, etc that offer free charging.

 

[pepperoni]

In my case, it’s not even close. $6/gallon is the average in my area. My Outback (the car that used to be my daily driver) gets about 23.5 mpg. So $100 gets me about 400 miles. With my Y, I get 0.28 kWh/mile and $0.13/kWh home rate, so I’m paying closer to $15 to drive the same 400 miles.

But I also get free charging at work, which I use for about 2/3 of my charging. So I’m averaging about $5 to drive 400 miles, rather than $100 for the Outback. A factor of 20 cheaper!

On the other hand, I have a large monthly payment on the Y, whereas the Outback is paid for (and was half the price new). Plus the Y is a lot more to insure.

In the end I think the Outback comes out on top financially, by a big margin.

But the Y is more fun to drive. A lot more fun.

 

[HSATD]

If you’re using Superchargers, it’s going to be variable and likely similar to gas. If you’re charging at home, it’ll also be variable but likely cheaper than the average gas car at 30MPG. In my area I’m paying $.135/kw and I’m far ahead on costs for gas/power over the average car.

My last gas car was an Accord hybrid that got 46MPG. It was pretty cheap to drive but cost $35K. Before that, and Accord LX with a six-speed, and at 33MPG w/ a drive out price of $21K it was downright cheap over the long haul. My son has that one now.

Of course, my MYP costs well over double what the average car does…so overall it’s more expensive to drive. I am ok with that. I am lucky enough to be able to afford it, and I think it’s important to help push the market towards EVs. As more EVs get built and bought, they’ll get more affordable. For now, I’m OK paying a premium to help the planet - and have fun.

 

[Corndart]

OP seemed to focus on a single topic - "cost per mile" over a 35mpg ICE equivalent. All this other stuff about saving the environment, instant torque, better reliability (a highly subjective statement to say the least), a car not *really* getting 35mpg on the highway due to driving habits and other variables is irrelevant.

Spare us the "wife math" or self delusional arguments used to justify buying the Tesla. There is no way using actual real data that a $70k MY nets out to lower overall lifetime operating cost than a $50k or lower ICE vehicle, even if it only gets 20mpg and requires premium fuel.

 

[father_of_6]

OP seemed to focus on a single topic - "cost per mile" over a 35mpg ICE equivalent. All this other stuff about saving the environment, instant torque, better reliability (a highly subjective statement to say the least), a car not *really* getting 35mpg on the highway due to driving habits and other variables is irrelevant.

Spare us the "wife math" or self delusional arguments used to justify buying the Tesla. There is no way using actual real data that a $70k MY nets out to lower overall lifetime operating cost than a $50k or lower ICE vehicle, even if it only gets 20mpg and requires premium fuel.

Hmm... it almost seems like you didn't read the OP's post. It was an argument for commercial EV charging costing as much as gas.

That said, the rest of your nasty, misogynistic post is a farce. You're making up numbers just for an attack.

A $70k Model Y *will* have a lower overall lifetime operating cost than a $70k ICE vehicle.

A $70k Model Y *will* have a lower overall lifetime operating cost than an $80k ICE vehicle.

A $70k Model Y *will NOT* have a lower overall lifetime operating cost than a $20k ICE vehicle.

A $40k EV *will* have a lower overall lifetime operating cost than a $70k ICE vehicle.

We can do this all day long. What's your point?

Clearly, it costs less to operate an EV. Clearly, on average, it costs more to buy an EV than an ICE. Clearly, EVs have a lot of benefits over ICE. Clearly, the auto industry is transitioning to EV.

 

[Corndart]

Hmm... it almost seems like you didn't read the OP's post. It was an argument for commercial EV charging costing as much as gas.

That said, the rest of your nasty, misogynistic post is a farce. You're making up numbers just for an attack.

A $70k Model Y *will* have a lower overall lifetime operating cost than a $70k ICE vehicle.

A $70k Model Y *will* have a lower overall lifetime operating cost than an $80k ICE vehicle.

A $70k Model Y *will NOT* have a lower overall lifetime operating cost than a $20k ICE vehicle.

A $40k EV *will* have a lower overall lifetime operating cost than a $70k ICE vehicle.

We can do this all day long. What's your point?

Clearly, it costs less to operate an EV. Clearly, on average, it costs more to buy an EV than an ICE. Clearly, EVs have a lot of benefits over ICE. Clearly, the auto industry is transitioning to EV.

Thanks for mansplaining it. I feel less confused now.

 

[TheLex]

Everyone's situation is going to be different! In my case, we're on PG&E on NEM1. NEM2 with it's TOU rates would be prohibitively expensive because our very long summers from end of May to mid-October, see temps that are well over 100°. And yes, we have solar at home. Our rates for charging the Tesla at home are usually $0.32 to $0.39 per kWh. Supercharger rates on the west coast are typically $0.46 off peak and up to $0.60 peak.

If I charge only at home, I'm typically paying $0.39/kWh. With our average efficiency of 268 Wh/mi, that would yield about 280 miles of range if we were to use the entire charge up, at a cost of $29.25. My Subaru Ascent averages about 22 mpg. To go the same 280 miles would cost us about $62 at our current cost of gas at $4.90/gal. So that's quite the savings. That's why we mostly drive our Tesla around town for short distance trips. It's about half the cost to run the Tesla.

However when we take long road trips up to British Columbia, that's about an 1800 mile round trip. Now don't forget that with EVs, the efficiency goes down with speed and use of HVAC. While our efficiency may average 268 Wh/mi around town, we've seen as high as 390 Wh/mi on a hot day driving on the freeway.

So lets assume we're taking our typical summer trip up to BC. It's hot. We're going to be driving average speeds of 75 mph. Efficiency is not going to be 268 Wh/mi. It'll likely be about 330 Wh/mi. I think that's a reasonable assumption, since we typically have our three 11 yr old boys, wife, dog, and a ton of luggage with us. At 330 Wh/mi, we would get a range of about 227 miles on a full 75 kWh charge. So we would need to charge up 7.93 times to be able to go those 1800 miles (assuming we ran it to 0%, which of course we would not do).

Since supercharging is much more expensive, it would cost us $.60/kWh to charge while on the freeway on the West Coast. At 330 Wh/mi, we would use 595 kWh to go the 1800 mi. That would cost us $357 for the entire round trip.

In that same 1800 miles, my Subaru would use 82 gallons of gas. I have verified that with a rooftop box, the 3 aforementioned kids, wife, dawg, and all our luggage, my Subie gets about 22 mpg at average speeds of 75 mph in HOT weather. Over the same 1800 miles, the Subie would consume 82 gallons of gas @ $4.90/gal = $402.

Now the difference in cost between the Tesla and the Subaru is only $402 - 357 = $45!! That's not much savings.

Add in the time value of money 8 full charges is going to take about 8 hours. I can fill up my Subie at any gas station in 5 minutes. I would need about 5 fill-ups. So let's call it 30 min total to fill the Subie vs 8 HOURS to charge the Tesla on that trip. That's a third of a day difference! It's up to you guys, but in our situation, we will continue using our Subie for our trips up to B.C. Also on Vancouver Island, once you get past Nanaimo, there are precious few EV chargers. We like to go out to Tofino, and there are only hotel destination chargers out that way and a couple of relatively low output stations. I can find gas much easier! So as they say, YMMV!

 

[shurik74]

Everyone's situation is going to be different! In my case, we're on PG&E on NEM1. NEM2 with it's TOU rates would be prohibitively expensive because our very long summers from end of May to mid-October, see temps that are well over 100°. And yes, we have solar at home. Our rates for charging the Tesla at home are usually $0.32 to $0.39 per kWh. Supercharger rates on the west coast are typically $0.46 off peak and up to $0.60 peak.

I live in NorCal too... Wonder how many kWh your solar system is? We installed 12kwh that produce more vs consumption, especially our long summers. PGE credit us, so far since July we have $400 accumulated in credits. If I charge day time before 4pm with 7.6kWh that being produced only from solar straight to the car, mostly on weekends of course, otherwise night time. Long story short, my calculation shows that we charge for free at the end of 12 months period PGE plan. Let me know if I'm missing something.

 

[rickybobbee]

depending on your driving needs tesla can be more expensive than ICE. Here's the crazy range $$....... BC canada, my home charging rate .09, supercharger rate anywhere from .44 to .66 and they charge by the minute rarely getting anything over 150kw speeds and mostly around half that. So if you have to supercharge a lot in BC it's gonna drain your wallet. I am lucky I can do 99% of charging at home with decent rates of .09

solar is the end goal but we can't get tesla solar here yet and all the traditional solar is just way to ugly and inefficient for my liking. A new roof would cost me 20k and a new tesla solar roof probably 100k but I don't care because I would rather be off the grid and doing my own thing. Nothing more annoying than being a slave to whatever bill the utility company wants to send......especially when they come up with scams like a tier system so your rates double after you use a certain amount of kwh which everyone is over the limit after the first day of the billing cycle

 

[TheLex]

I live in NorCal too... Wonder how many kWh your solar system is? We installed 12kwh that produce more vs consumption, especially our long summers. PGE credit us, so far since July we have $400 accumulated in credits. If I charge day time before 4pm with 7.6kWh that being produced only from solar straight to the car, mostly on weekends of course, otherwise night time. Long story short, my calculation shows that we charge for free at the end of 12 months period PGE plan. Let me know if I'm missing something.

My solar system is 4.2 kWh. Despite the fact that our home is almost 5k sq ft, all of our lighting is LED and all our interior walls are well insulated as well. So our energy consumption isn't really all that high all things considered.

The problem with PG&E, is under NEM1, they're paying us $0.11 kWh for the energy produced by the PV system, while they're charging us $0.32-0.39/kWh for the electricity we consume. So they're arbitraging the difference.

 

[OGHeng]

My solar system is 4.2 kWh. Despite the fact that our home is almost 5k sq ft, all of our lighting is LED and all our interior walls are well insulated as well. So our energy consumption isn't really all that high all things considered.

The problem with PG&E, is under NEM1, they're paying us $0.11 kWh for the energy produced by the PV system, while they're charging us $0.32-0.39/kWh for the electricity we consume. So they're arbitraging the difference.

You are doing better than we are in SoCal with the payment for excess electricity. Last settlement bill, we got paid 3.922 cents per kwh for our excess electricity. Still, we are glad we had excess electricity for our EVs as our rates go as high as $.54/kwh. We have a 6.27 kwh system for our 2100 sq ft home and there are only 2 of us living here. Glad we installed our PV system in early 2020 before prices went up.

 

[Corndart]

You are doing better than we are in SoCal with the payment for excess electricity. Last settlement bill, we got paid 3.922 cents per kwh for our excess electricity. Still, we are glad we had excess electricity for our EVs as our rates go as high as $.54/kwh. We have a 6.27 kwh system for our 2100 sq ft home and there are only 2 of us living here. Glad we installed our PV system in early 2020 before prices went up.

That's criminal. These anti-solar poison pills energy companies are *allowed* to adopt need to be eradicated by legislation. It should be based on the price they're currently charging customers, not a fraction thereof.