How much electricity does it take to produce a gallon/liter of gas/diesel?

[nwdiver]

Oh the humanity!

Have you read Ashlee Vances biography of Musk? Pretty good chance he's a sociopath. Good thing the objective he's focused on is replacing fools fuel powered cars with EVs for pragmatic purposes. He likely burns a bit more fools fuel than he needs to but on balance he's still well in the black.

 

[Not Sure]

Have you read Ashlee Vances biography of Musk? Pretty good chance he's a sociopath. Good thing the objective he's focused on is replacing fools fuel powered cars with EVs for pragmatic purposes. He likely burns a bit more fools fuel than he needs to but on balance he's still well in the black.

Well, let's be serious for a moment.
Using small and lightweight cars for city use and short commutes is an excellent idea.
Public transport is an even better idea.
Large heavy electric cars that have to drag the weight of the battery around at all times seems like less of a good idea.
When will Elon start to produce an electric town car or even ( heaven forbid) a PHEV?
It seems to me that Elon is putting the cart before the horse.


Oh.... and about those 5 mansions

 

[nwdiver]

Well, let's be serious for a moment.
Using small and lightweight cars for city use and short commutes is an excellent idea.
Public transport is an even better idea.
Large heavy electric cars that have to drag the weight of the battery around at all times seems like less of a good idea.
When will Elon start to produce an electric town car or even ( heaven forbid) a PHEV?
It seems to me that Elon is putting the cart before the horse.


Oh.... and about those 5 mansions

The Model 3 gets ~140 mpge even with a heavy battery. You have to sell what people will buy. Without Tesla the best EV we would probably have is the LEAF which gets ~120 mpge.

My point is that we need to reduce the energy we use and more importantly get more of the energy we DO use from wind or solar. My point is that to use fools fuel today with the alternatives we have means you're either a moron or a monster. Sadly fools fuel is still required to travel >1500 miles in a day so there is not yet an alternative to air travel. What exactly is your point?

 

[Not Sure]

De plane de plane!

Fuel Efficiency: Planes vs Trains vs Automobiles - prch

 

[nwdiver]

De plane de plane!

Fuel Efficiency: Planes vs Trains vs Automobiles - prch

I would take the train if I could....

 

[Not Sure]

The Model 3 gets ~140 mpge even with a heavy battery. You have to sell what people will buy. Without Tesla the best EV we would probably have is the LEAF which gets ~120 mpge.

My point is that we need to reduce the energy we use and more importantly get more of the energy we DO use from wind or solar. My point is that to use fools fuel today with the alternatives we have means you're either a moron or a monster. Sadly fools fuel is still required to travel >1500 miles in a day so there is not yet an alternative to air travel. What exactly is your point?

My point is that in the real word today our population is hugely reliant upon fossil fuel.
You can not change that overnight.
People would starve to death but before that happened they would revolt.
China is building coal fired power stations at a record pace.
Do you think if Greta went there (she could go by train) she would be able to persuade them to stop it?

 

[nwdiver]

My point is that in the real word today our population is hugely reliant upon fossil fuel.
You can not change that overnight.
People would starve to death but before that happened they would revolt.
China is building coal fired power stations at a record pace.
Do you think if Greta went there (she could go by train) she would be able to persuade them to stop it?

You're right... it will take about 10 years and we should have gotten serious about it >10 years ago. Most people are way behind. Why? It truly is pathetic. I didn't kick my fools fuel addiction until ~7 years ago and I felt like I was behind the curve. If you're making >$20k/yr and have an IQ >50 there's really no excuse.....

 

[Not Sure]

You're right... it will take about 10 years and we should have gotten serious about it >10 years ago. Most people are way behind. Why? It truly is pathetic. I didn't kick my fools fuel addiction until ~7 years ago and I felt like I was behind the curve. If you're making >$20k/yr and have an IQ >50 there's really no excuse.....

You've joined the Amish?

 

[nwdiver]

You've joined the Amish?

EV + PV. I produce ~2x as much energy as I need from solar to make up for any ancillary energy use. Not hard. I use ~10MWh/yr overall and generate ~20MWh/yr.

We don't need to give up anything (except air travel). We just have to stop behaving like morons.

 

[Not Sure]

EV + PV. I produce ~2x as much energy as I need from solar to make up for any ancillary energy use. Not hard. I use ~10MWh/yr overall and generate ~20MWh/yr.

We don't need to give up anything (except air travel). We just have to stop behaving like morons.

Do you believe that 10 MWh per year covers the energy needed to produce transport refrigerate the food you buy?
https://www.chooseenergy.com/blog/energy-101/energy-food-production/

 

[nwdiver]

Do you believe that 10 MWh per year covers the energy needed to produce transport refrigerate the food you buy?
https://www.chooseenergy.com/blog/energy-101/energy-food-production/

That and more because math. Especially since I gave up beef.

Here's some 'fun' Math. Total US energy use for food is 10.1 quads which translates to ~3000TWh/yr which translates to 9.1MWh/yr per capita in the US. But that's PRIMARY energy. Electricity isn't 'Primary'. 'Primary' is the energy required to make the food or the electricity. So 10MWh of electricity requires on average ~30MWh of primary energy. Therefore displacing 10MWh of electricity displaces ~30MWh worth of fools fuel or ~3x the US average energy use for per capita food production.

See? This problem isn't impossible. Even a half-wit like me can solve their part. Math.

 

[dhrivnak]

Do you believe that 10 MWh per year covers the energy needed to produce transport refrigerate the food you buy?
https://www.chooseenergy.com/blog/energy-101/energy-food-production/

But just imagine if everyone acted and lived like NWDiver. If they did I am sure we will see emissions dropping and not rising.

 

[Not Sure]

From the figures quoted by NWDiver I'd conclude that he is not off-grid.
This is problematic.
His annual net consumption from the grid is negative meaning that he probably pays little in utiltiy charges.
However, the grid is still there to support him during the night, during cloudy weather and in the winter when the days are short.
Somebody has to bear those costs and is usually the less affluent.

I imagine that this gentleman works in an air-conditioned / heated office and that he drives on highways that have reliably working street lights, traffic signals and so forth.
My point is that despite all the hand-waving and hysterical "how dare you" the reality is that our modern way of life came about as a result of the fossil fuel powered industrial revolution.
Most people agree that renewable energy is a nice idea.
The missing link is energy storage for intermittent renewable energy.
Batteries are unlikely to provide storage on the scale required.
Hydro-electric is a more viable option but lead-times are long, suitable sites are scarce and even hydro comes at a cost to the environment.

 

[nwdiver]

From the figures quoted by NWDiver I'd conclude that he is not off-grid.
This is problematic.
His annual net consumption from the grid is negative meaning that he probably pays little in utiltiy charges.
However, the grid is still there to support him during the night, during cloudy weather and in the winter when the days are short.
Somebody has to bear those costs and is usually the less affluent.

I imagine that this gentleman works in an air-conditioned / heated office and that he drives on highways that have reliably working street lights, traffic signals and so forth.
My point is that despite all the hand-waving and hysterical "how dare you" the reality is that our modern way of life came about as a result of the fossil fuel powered industrial revolution.
Most people agree that renewable energy is a nice idea.
The missing link is energy storage for intermittent renewable energy.
Batteries are unlikely to provide storage on the scale required.
Hydro-electric is a more viable option but lead-times are long, suitable sites are scarce and even hydro comes at a cost to the environment.

Wow.... you'd be hard pressed to fit more wrong per word in there....

• The idea of solar grid-tie being problematic is utility propaganda. <10% PV and solar helps to support the grid during peak periods. Hot weather when solar is needed most also tends to be when PV is producing the most. >10% PV and TOU can be used to reduce the evening ramp and eventually use storage or demand response. Earth Justice and Vote Solar won a rate case against Xcel last year with similar data.
• We can get to ~80% solar and wind almost entirely with demand response. As transportation is electrified EV charging can be aggregated to match surplus solar or wind generation.
• Eventually Power to Gas can fill in any remaining gaps.

We've been running on stored sunlight for >100 years (that's what fools fuel is). It's idiotic to think that we can't find a way to store enough energy for a few months.....

 

[Not Sure]

"It's idiotic to think that we can't find a way to store enough energy for a few months"
Do tell!

After all, you're not an idiot, or so you say.

 

[nwdiver]

"It's idiotic to think that we can't find a way to store enough energy for a few months"
Do tell!

After all, you're not an idiot, or so you say.

It's called water. You can use it to store energy as Hydrogen. We know how to do that.

 

[Toumal]

This topic is ripe for closing.

 

[Not Sure]

It's called water. You can use it to store energy as Hydrogen. We know how to do that.

That process is extremely inefficient. Even more so when you compress the hydrogen for storage.
This has gone way off topic.
Why don't you start a new thread about renewable energy and explain to us all how you are setting such a great example by being completely carbon neutral?

 

[Not Sure]

This topic is ripe for closing.

I agree. Way off topic.
NWDiver should start a new thread and tell us all how to live guilt free lives

Must go now... I have a plane to catch.
SORRY sorry sorry.... I'll ride my bike instead.

 

[Toumal]

How about everyone do what they can and leave it at that?

As for the original topic, OMV Vienna quoted around 1.4kWh per liter of gasoline, but that also covers the other side products. That is the grid usage, they have a very beefy grid connection.
So that number gives you gasoline as well various other refinement products (including hydrogen). This may also not be applicable to all refineries and may not include all energy used. In summary, it's complicated.