How much extra would you pay for a Hotel with Destination Charging that you could Reserve?

[RTPEV]

From personal experience, this is as bad an idea as it gets. Last month I stayed at a hotel that listed a Tesla destination charger. Given the location and the charger availability I decided it should be a nice choice to enjoy couple of days stay. Nowhere listed was the fact that you could reserve it exclusively. So some other Tesla driver did so and ICE'd the charger without moving his car for more than 30 hours (at least every time that I passed by he was there and didn't look like the car was moved at all). I asked the front desk to help contact the other driver but of course they were spectacularly unhelpful, and not only with this issue. But they put a big sign with "This EV charging spot is reserved EXCLUSIVELY for Mr. ***** from xx/xx to xx/xx" after I asked for assistance... The other spot where you could park to charge from the dual connector (but didn't have "Reserved for EV" signage) of course had an ICE vehicle parked. I didn't supercharge before arriving so I was at 15% SoC on arrival. I had to go to a local SC late at night in order to be able to use the car the second day we've stayed there. The red model 3 parked was in the same spot always. I looked at the charger and of course since the morning after the first night. it was not charging, steady light on the EVSE....So lets not encourage bad behavior on behalf of hotels or drivers. Pine Inn, Carmel-by-the-Sea is now on my *sugar* list of hotels that I will not stay at, even for free...

That certainly is questionable behavior, and I agree, it's the other extreme of not having the ability to reserve a spot at all and not being able to get a charge because the spots are NOT reserved and continuously ICEd.

Possible solutions here are:

1. Keep adding additional charging stations until the level of contention reaches a manageable (rare) level (probably not practical/desirable in the short term).
2. Limit the duration of the reservation to one night per stay, or one night per X days, or something reasonable to allow for sharing. If using an automated reservation system (such as ChargePoint apparently has), this could even be managed down to a maximum number of hours.
3. Apply some level of common sense and at least talk to the parties involved to work out some kind of arrangement.
4. Institute some kind of idle fee, although as previously discussed, it should be carefully constructed so as not to require waking up in the middle of the night to unplug. Some of the sites around here, for example, allow for a different rate to be charged after a certain amount of time. If the rate increased after being plugged in continuously for 12 hours, that would possibly be reasonable. Sure, someone that plugged in at 4pm would have a cutoff of 4am, but they could be able to unplug before retiring for the night and likely have a full or nearly full battery. It's not perfect, but it's better than hogging a station continuously for 3 days straight!

Even if the policy were to remain as it was in this case (where you can exclusively "reserve" a spot for an arbitrary duration), that's not necessarily "bad" if you can learn when making the reservation (and attempting to reserve it yourself) that the sole charging station will be unavailable during your stay because it is reserved. At that point you can make the decision to choose another property if need be. In my mind, this is preferable to the scenario where you have zero visibility as to whether a given charging station is going to be available, ICED, in use, or broken. I would either plan ahead appropriately, or choose a different property if I knew that a given station was definitely going to be unavailable during a stay.

 

[bradtem]

That certainly is questionable behavior, and I agree, it's the other extreme of not having the ability to reserve a spot at all and not being able to get a charge because the spots are NOT reserved and continuously ICEd.

Possible solutions here are:

1. Keep adding additional charging stations until the level of contention reaches a manageable (rare) level (probably not practical/desirable in the short term).
2. Limit the duration of the reservation to one night per stay, or one night per X days, or something reasonable to allow for sharing. If using an automated reservation system (such as ChargePoint apparently has), this could even be managed down to a maximum number of hours.
3. Apply some level of common sense and at least talk to the parties involved to work out some kind of arrangement.
4. Institute some kind of idle fee, although as previously discussed, it should be carefully constructed so as not to require waking up in the middle of the night to unplug. Some of the sites around here, for example, allow for a different rate to be charged after a certain amount of time. If the rate increased after being plugged in continuously for 12 hours, that would possibly be reasonable. Sure, someone that plugged in at 4pm would have a cutoff of 4am, but they could be able to unplug before retiring for the night and likely have a full or nearly full battery. It's not perfect, but it's better than hogging a station continuously for 3 days straight!

Even if the policy were to remain as it was in this case (where you can exclusively "reserve" a spot for an arbitrary duration), that's not necessarily "bad" if you can learn when making the reservation (and attempting to reserve it yourself) that the sole charging station will be unavailable during your stay because it is reserved. At that point you can make the decision to choose another property if need be. In my mind, this is preferable to the scenario where you have zero visibility as to whether a given charging station is going to be available, ICED, in use, or broken. I would either plan ahead appropriately, or choose a different property if I knew that a given station was definitely going to be unavailable during a stay.

I wish more hotels you you reserve and guarantee a spot. If I am coming in to a hotel with a low SoC and need that charge, I need to know I will get it. I would have called the hotel and when they said, "Sorry the charger is reserved all nights for another guest" would have stayed elsewhere.

Now, what was silly was they reserved the charger 100% of the time for the other guest and didn't clear the other slot of ICE. What you want is:

• The hotel should explain to guests that while they can reserve they should not use it more than they need, and in fact their reservation is only for so many hours of use
• When a guest wants to use or reserve a station, they must leave their mobile number with the front desk in case they overstay their reservation.
• Most hotels do record licence plates so if a car ICEs a a reserved station they could do something about it, though they are not often inclined to do so. If they cared they would put a charge on the bill for icing the station. Hotels will be very loathe to tow a guest's car, unless they are EV zealots.
• You should have put a note on the windshield of the cars blocking the station.
• In extreme cases of course a Tesla owner, when phoned, can enable via the app for the hotel valet to move their car. If they won't do this, they can come down and move it. Again, hotels don't want to do the work.

 

[RTPEV]

What you want is:

• The hotel should explain to guests that while they can reserve they should not use it more than they need, and in fact their reservation is only for so many hours of use
• When a guest wants to use or reserve a station, they must leave their mobile number with the front desk in case they overstay their reservation.
• Most hotels do record licence plates so if a car ICEs a a reserved station they could do something about it, though they are not often inclined to do so. If they cared they would put a charge on the bill for icing the station. Hotels will be very loathe to tow a guest's car, unless they are EV zealots.
• You should have put a note on the windshield of the cars blocking the station.
• In extreme cases of course a Tesla owner, when phoned, can enable via the app for the hotel valet to move their car. If they won't do this, they can come down and move it. Again, hotels don't want to do the work.

Much better explanation of reasonable solutions to this problem than I was able to describe.

 

[Don.Church]

The most cost-effective charging setup would be to provide 20 amp plugs dedicated for multiple EV parking spaces. More bang for the buck. Too many times we have been on a road trip and the two charging ports in the hotel parking are already in use or ice’ed.
If you are spending the night (8-12 hours or more) with the car plugged in, that should be enough charge for most people.
And I would be willing to pay something extra for that perk.

 

[bradtem]

The most cost-effective charging setup would be to provide 20 amp plugs dedicated for multiple EV parking spaces. More bang for the buck. Too many times we have been on a road trip and the two charging ports in the hotel parking are already in use or ice’ed.
If you are spending the night (8-12 hours or more) with the car plugged in, that should be enough charge for most people.
And I would be willing to pay something extra for that perk.

With Tesla wall connectors, you can daisy chain them to share the power. Presently they do it by giving priority to filling the first car, then the 2nd etc. rather than some more even distribution, but they could be improved to do it better. In fact, this is often how they are wired. So the first guest to reserve gets slot #1 and is sure to fully charge, and guest #2 has to hope it's not an empty model X, but otherwise they will get power, and certainly get it in a 2 night stay. There is a problem if you have two guests both trying to fill an empty model X in a one night stay, though. The only way to fix that is to pay more for more current at the EVSEs.

 

[RTPEV]

There is a problem if you have two guests both trying to fill an empty model X in a one night stay, though.

It's also a problem if you have two guests with non-Tesla EVs trying to charge!

I don't have a problem with hotels offering Tesla destination chargers as long as they also offer J1772. If they have limited funds or electric capacity available for charging stations, they should focus on J1772 first.

 

[Ogre]

It's also a problem if you have two guests with non-Tesla EVs trying to charge!

I don't have a problem with hotels offering Tesla destination chargers as long as they also offer J1772. If they have limited funds or electric capacity available for charging stations, they should focus on J1772 first.

Nah.

If I'm running a hotel, I have 2 goals. Serve the needs of the most customers. Keep costs down.

Tesla chargers are more affordable, have better features, and work better for the vast majority of EV owners. Most EVs in the US are Teslas. For EVs which are decent for road tripping the numbers are even more lopsided.

Keep a J1772 -> Tesla adaptor at the front desk for the small number of non-Tesla EVs who roll in.

 

[RayK]

Nowhere listed was the fact that you could reserve it exclusively. So some other Tesla driver did so and ICE'd the charger without moving his car for more than 30 hours (at least every time that I passed by he was there and didn't look like the car was moved at all). I asked the front desk to help contact the other driver but of course they were spectacularly unhelpful, and not only with this issue. But they put a big sign with "This EV charging spot is reserved EXCLUSIVELY for Mr. ***** from xx/xx to xx/xx" after I asked for assistance...

I just checked Pine Inn's website and there's this in plain sight (from their sliding banner display; 3rd item):

Electric Vehicle Charging Station | Pine Inn - Carmel, CA

Discover our offer Electric Vehicle Charging Station and book an unforgettable stay in Carmel, CA at Pine Inn.

www.pineinn.com

"The Pine Inn has installed an electric vehicle charging station free to guests. Be sure to reserve a space during your stay." (bolding mine)

Did you not contact (call) them before making your reservation there and asking about their charging policy?

 

[Sandor]

I just checked Pine Inn's website and there's this in plain sight (from their sliding banner display; 3rd item):

Electric Vehicle Charging Station | Pine Inn - Carmel, CA

Discover our offer Electric Vehicle Charging Station and book an unforgettable stay in Carmel, CA at Pine Inn.

www.pineinn.com

"The Pine Inn has installed an electric vehicle charging station free to guests. Be sure to reserve a space during your stay." (bolding mine)

Did you not contact (call) them before making your reservation there and asking about their charging policy?

Exactly why should I assume that they'll be asinine enough to force EXCLUSIVE usage of the charger for a single customer at a time (bolding mine)? While having the other spot ICE'd... Just curious, you don't own a red M3 too in addition to the MSM? Anyways I vote with my wallet and it's not like the hotel impressed me at all. If that's a 4* hotel then I've seen better Hilton Gardens at 3*.

And just to clarify, the note you mention is on the "Offer" page that you have to click from the front page. On the "Rooms" page, which is the place where amazingly you look first at when starting the reservation process, it says "Complimentary car charging station". ONLY

 

[RayK]

So I guess that would be a "no" answer to my question about you calling them.

edit: And no, I don't own a second Model 3 so it wasn't me that offended you.

 

[RayK]

Nah.

If I'm running a hotel, I have 2 goals. Serve the needs of the most customers. Keep costs down.

Tesla chargers are more affordable, have better features, and work better for the vast majority of EV owners. Most EVs in the US are Teslas. For EVs which are decent for road tripping the numbers are even more lopsided.

Keep a J1772 -> Tesla adaptor at the front desk for the small number of non-Tesla EVs who roll in.

I think that you have that backward. A J1772-to-Tesla adapter will allow a J1772 handle to plug into Tesla's proprietary charge port. What you probably mean is a Tesla-to-J1772 adapter, which I don't think is as common. It's certainly more expensive.

 

[Ogre]

I think that you have that backward. A J1772-to-Tesla adapter will allow a J1772 handle to plug into Tesla's proprietary charge port. What you probably mean is a Tesla-to-J1772 adapter, which I don't think is as common. It's certainly more expensive.

You are being pedantic.

Yes, the J1772 adaptor which is shipped in 70% of all EVs is much more common than the reverse adaptor…

That said, buying 10 Tesla wall connectors costs $4000. The cost for 10 Comparable J1772 chargers is nearly twice that. The Tesla Wall Connector is also typically less expensive to install because it doesn’t use a common or require a GFCI breaker.

Another way you could deal with it is put in one J1772 charger for every 4 Tesla chargers.

 

[RayK]

You are being pedantic.

I am being accurate. For the EV newbies that might read this thread, you'd be telling them to get the wrong thing.

 

[Ogre]

I just checked Pine Inn's website and there's this in plain sight (from their sliding banner display; 3rd item):

Electric Vehicle Charging Station | Pine Inn - Carmel, CA

Discover our offer Electric Vehicle Charging Station and book an unforgettable stay in Carmel, CA at Pine Inn.

www.pineinn.com

"The Pine Inn has installed an electric vehicle charging station free to guests. Be sure to reserve a space during your stay." (bolding mine)

Did you not contact (call) them before making your reservation there and asking about their charging policy?

Personally, I call ahead regardless. Just because the web site or whatever says it’s available doesn’t mean it’s actually vacant or in service.

As EVs become more common, these things are going to become more heavily utilized.

 

[Ogre]

I am being accurate. For the EV newbies that might read this thread, you'd be telling them to get the wrong thing.

Congrats. That’s 2 posts where you’ve nit picked and not made any real point.

 

[RTPEV]

Tesla chargers are more affordable, have better features, and work better for the vast majority of EV owners. Most EVs in the US are Teslas. For EVs which are decent for road tripping the numbers are even more lopsided.

Yes, this is true in 2022.

Those numbers are going to flip on their heads over the next few years.

And if not, I guess all the folks complaining about Tesla opening up the Supercharger network to CCS vehicles have nothing to worry about!

So yes, if you are interesting in outright buying and installing charging stations today, Tesla destination chargers might be a good short term (bean counting) option, although with the added expense of the Tesla->J1772 adapters, I'm not so sure. A better option would be to buy a mix of Tesla TPC wall connectors + Tesla J1772 adapters (I don't know how much they go for, but I suspect they are competitively priced).

But if you REALLY are concerned with costs, then I would go with ChargePoint stations where ChargePoint provides the hardware and you in turn pass along the costs to the customers. This will beat even the Tesla option.

 

[bradtem]

Yes, this is true in 2022.

Those numbers are going to flip on their heads over the next few years.

And if not, I guess all the folks complaining about Tesla opening up the Supercharger network to CCS vehicles have nothing to worry about!

So yes, if you are interesting in outright buying and installing charging stations today, Tesla destination chargers might be a good short term (bean counting) option, although with the added expense of the Tesla->J1772 adapters, I'm not so sure. A better option would be to buy a mix of Tesla TPC wall connectors + Tesla J1772 adapters (I don't know how much they go for, but I suspect they are competitively priced).

But if you REALLY are concerned with costs, then I would go with ChargePoint stations where ChargePoint provides the hardware and you in turn pass along the costs to the customers. This will beat even the Tesla option.

Almost all hotels offer the charging free with a stay. That may change, and if it does they may want a fancier EVSE with billing in it. Bit of a shame as often you pay more for the fancier EVSE and the billing system than for the electricity!

It depends on the hotel's goal. Most hotels put these in to get extra guests. If they charge money, they will still get some (or more to the point, stop losing guests who only stay at hotels with charging) but they won't appeal a much. They won't make much money from it though.

Does Tesla still not give you a free TWC if you are a hotel that gets a decent number of guests?

 

[masotime]

I think the bigger issue here is that this is needed at all. It shouldn’t be needed - destination charging should be a nice-to-have convenience, not a make-it-or-break-it thing on road trips.

A person shouldn’t have to make a 50 mile detour just because they can’t guarantee access to destination charging when planning a road trip.

 

[Olle]

Almost all hotels offer the charging free with a stay. That may change, and if it does they may want a fancier EVSE with billing in it. Bit of a shame as often you pay more for the fancier EVSE and the billing system than for the electricity!

It depends on the hotel's goal. Most hotels put these in to get extra guests. If they charge money, they will still get some (or more to the point, stop losing guests who only stay at hotels with charging) but they won't appeal a much. They won't make much money from it though.

Does Tesla still not give you a free TWC if you are a hotel that gets a decent number of guests?

True, but the survey question was if we were willing to pay for a reservation since the free ones are often taken.

 

[bradtem]

True, but the survey question was if we were willing to pay for a reservation since the free ones are often taken.

Yes, it was my post that prompted that. But the reality is that it's fairly rare for hotels to even understand the idea of reserving it or to have a system for it, the hotel under discussion being an exception. When I ask if their charging can be reserved the result is usually silence or not understanding. Though one hotel, after saying not, put a hotel staffer ICE car in the spot (which is probably the only way to reserve) so when I got there I thought, "Crap!" but when I got to the desk they told me it was their car.

I imagine in the future group EVSEs designed for hotel use. They have a screen showing the name of the guest it is reserved for. They have a camera and if a car that doesn't have your licence plate pulls in (better back in if you have no front plate) it starts flashing. Though plug to charge would also work but ICE cars don't plug in but an AI that can identify an EV is not that hard. But that's the future.
Today we would be happy just knowing we will get a charge that night when we arrive.