How much extra would you pay for a Hotel with Destination Charging that you could Reserve?

[cpa]

I was at a hotel in St. George, Utah, in May. They have two Tesla plugs and a J1772. They are concealed from public view, but easily accessible if you know where they are. They do not reserve them. They are first-come-first-served.

Those Tesla plugs output 40A/208V, so "up to 8kW" depending on your car's onboard charger. But with two SC locations within a 5-minute drive, there is not much of a problem if one arrives late and cannot plug in. Just an unexpected inconvenience.

It is likely that by the end of this decade, with more and more EVs on the road, some owners of hotels and motels will figure out a sensible and cost-conscious method to have a dozen or more L2 stations available for us. They'll have a way to eliminate ICEing by thoughtless or ignorant jerks and a method to ensure that we charge overnight only. (In other words, some sort of RFID card that is issued to the room, and if not returned by 10AM, a $100 fee is added or some other deterrent.)

 

[bradtem]

I was at a hotel in St. George, Utah, in May. They have two Tesla plugs and a J1772. They are concealed from public view, but easily accessible if you know where they are. They do not reserve them. They are first-come-first-served.

Those Tesla plugs output 40A/208V, so "up to 8kW" depending on your car's onboard charger. But with two SC locations within a 5-minute drive, there is not much of a problem if one arrives late and cannot plug in. Just an unexpected inconvenience.

It is likely that by the end of this decade, with more and more EVs on the road, some owners of hotels and motels will figure out a sensible and cost-conscious method to have a dozen or more L2 stations available for us. They'll have a way to eliminate ICEing by thoughtless or ignorant jerks and a method to ensure that we charge overnight only. (In other words, some sort of RFID card that is issued to the room, and if not returned by 10AM, a $100 fee is added or some other deterrent.)

I actually think it might work if a charging station said "Reserved for Mr. Templeton" on it, either on a screen or just a paper sign that the clerk brings out. People seem fairly willing to park in a spot that says "Reserved for EV charging" because that's not for any particular person, and we ignore no parking signs all the time. But when it says "reserved for name" then you realize somebody is counting on that spot and will be angry if you take it, and probably try to get you towed. "Reserved for room 105" might even be better without putting your name but you won't know your room number when you drive in and it's handy to know where to park. However, they could also make a permanent sign saying "Reserved for room 105" and just tell the EV driving guest that this is their stall, no matter what room they are in. In which case the room number would need to be one that does not strictly exist." Even better might be "Reserved for Suite 4A, July 30" because then people know that somebody is definitely coming. Just change the date once a day.

 

[cpa]

I actually think it might work if a charging station said "Reserved for Mr. Templeton" on it, either on a screen or just a paper sign that the clerk brings out. People seem fairly willing to park in a spot that says "Reserved for EV charging" because that's not for any particular person, and we ignore no parking signs all the time. But when it says "reserved for name" then you realize somebody is counting on that spot and will be angry if you take it, and probably try to get you towed. "Reserved for room 105" might even be better without putting your name but you won't know your room number when you drive in and it's handy to know where to park. However, they could also make a permanent sign saying "Reserved for room 105" and just tell the EV driving guest that this is their stall, no matter what room they are in. In which case the room number would need to be one that does not strictly exist." Even better might be "Reserved for Suite 4A, July 30" because then people know that somebody is definitely coming. Just change the date once a day.

Especially at those establishments whose room rates are by the hour . . . .

 

[Silicon Desert]

I actually think it might work if a charging station said "Reserved for Mr. Templeton" on it,

I like that idea. I would call ahead and tell them my name is Elon Musk and then watch to see how many people gather around the charger with camera or shotguns and wait for him to show up

 

[Earl]

I was at a hotel in St. George, Utah, in May.

Funny you mention St. George, UT: I think that town probably has some of the earliest experience with hotel charging since we Roadster owners used to stay there on trips to Zion and Bryce National Parks. St. George is a good 1 day trip from LA, if charging at RV parks in Barstow and Las Vegas and a great place to basecamp from while visting those parks. It was a good, viable road trip for the pioneers. Life doesn't get much better than driving through Zion, silently in an EV, with the top down.
In the early days, we'd need to rent a room at a hotel as well as a space at one of the RV parks in town for charging. We'd then walk between the two places and run up to the parks during the day.
It is not surprising that they might be leading in trying to help EV owners with hotel charging.
Of course, today, with 2 Superchargers and a few CHAdeMO stations it town, life is easy for EV drivers. Hotel owners can still attract them to their establishment, however, if they offer the convenience of reserved chargers with rooms.
As more hotel owners and employees get EVs and experience the situations, I'm sure we'll see viable solutions proliferate.

 

[roblab]

With superchargers almost every hundred miles along the main roads, using destination charging is fairly unnecessary. In fact, I don't remember EVER using it anywhere, preferring to fill up at a supercharger along the way, and not charging at all at a motel. OR I use a motel that has supercharging. I also spent the money on a car with a 400 mile "tank", which helps. Having owned several Teslas over the years, I've learned that range is pretty much everything, although superchargers seem to be almost everywhere a person would want to go. I started with an EV with 95 miles of range and quickly learned that was a bare minimum. We bought the S specifically so we could drive all day and end up at an L2 charger overnight, charge up while we sleep, and head off in the morning for another long day of driving wherever we needed to go. And that was when there was only one supercharger anywhere.

 

[Earl]

With superchargers almost every hundred miles along the main roads, using destination charging is fairly unnecessary. In fact, I don't remember EVER using it anywhere, preferring to fill up at a supercharger along the way, and not charging at all at a motel. OR I use a motel that has supercharging. I also spent the money on a car with a 400 mile "tank", which helps. Having owned several Teslas over the years, I've learned that range is pretty much everything, although superchargers seem to be almost everywhere a person would want to go. I started with an EV with 95 miles of range and quickly learned that was a bare minimum. We bought the S specifically so we could drive all day and end up at an L2 charger overnight, charge up while we sleep, and head off in the morning for another long day of driving wherever we needed to go. And that was when there was only one supercharger anywhere.

Clearly, your driving style/needs are different from mine. I tend to:
- drive long distances over 2 to 3 days
- want get to my final destination quickly which means time wasted
- maximize my time sleeping
- drive in cold weather (I get a week off between Xmas and New Years) and want to use it well

For that, one wants to be plugged in all night (for cold temperatures). Start at 100% full each morning (best done at L2 with timed departure). Sleep when not driving, eating, or at bathroom stops (drive to hotel, register, plug-in, sleep, wake up, drive). I'll goof off at my destination, not at some supercharger near my hotel.
For this, just as for regular use: charging where/while you sleep is best.
That's fine though. You and I won't be competing for those destination chargers. See you enroute at the Superchargers!

 

[ROB_310]

I like the idea. Id pay to have my car fully charged when I leave. The price would depend on the type of hotel/resort. 4 star, 5 star etc....
Id expect to pay a premium over supercharger rates but sometimes convince and peace of mind is worth it.

 

[Ogre]

Yes, this is true in 2022.

Those numbers are going to flip on their heads over the next few years.

And if not, I guess all the folks complaining about Tesla opening up the Supercharger network to CCS vehicles have nothing to worry about!

So yes, if you are interesting in outright buying and installing charging stations today, Tesla destination chargers might be a good short term (bean counting) option, although with the added expense of the Tesla->J1772 adapters, I'm not so sure. A better option would be to buy a mix of Tesla TPC wall connectors + Tesla J1772 adapters (I don't know how much they go for, but I suspect they are competitively priced).

But if you REALLY are concerned with costs, then I would go with ChargePoint stations where ChargePoint provides the hardware and you in turn pass along the costs to the customers. This will beat even the Tesla option.

It will almost certainly be true for at least 5 years. Just look at current production and planned capacity.

So if they want to plan for a possible future 5+ years out, it might make sense to invest in non Tesla chargers.

But even this is stupid because it’s very clear in 5 years demand for EV chargers at hotels will be much higher. So they will need to at least double the number of chargers in place. So in 3-5 years when they almost certainly will be expanding charging options, they can huge the market then.

In the mean time, it’s stupid to spend more to get a charger most people will need an adapter for.

 

[RTPEV]

With superchargers almost every hundred miles along the main roads, using destination charging is fairly unnecessary. In fact, I don't remember EVER using it anywhere, preferring to fill up at a supercharger along the way, and not charging at all at a motel.

I have to disagree here. Specifically with regards to an overnight stay, if I can be assured of a working and available L2 charging station at the hotel, I can effectively skip an entire Supercharging stop, and even better, ensure that my first leg of travel in the morning (when I'm most rested and in the least need of a stop) is as long as possible.

Plus, if time is at all a concern for me, I either need to make sure I Supercharge at the preceding Supercharger before my stay (which is likely when I'm most eager to just get into bed for the night) while the battery is appropriately conditioned, or I need to put up with sub-optimal charging the next morning because the battery didn't have enough time to pre-condition en route to the first stop.

 

[RTPEV]

In the mean time, it’s stupid to spend more to get a charger most people will need an adapter for.

You mean an adapter that came with the car? How is this a problem?

As for production plans 5 years out, I think you may be surprised at how quickly the auto industry is now scrambling to get in on that play. For sure they ignored Tesla for years and let them get a huge head start, but now that the "reputable" car brands are making the leap, they are all tripping over themselves to build capacity and start pumping out vehicles. There is huge interest and ramp ups of production from VW, Ford, Hyundai/Kia, and while it remains to be seen because they've flip flopped a few times, GM.

Not to mention the average hotel owner is probably not going to be familiar with the nuances of production schedules and factory buildouts. They are likely going to be aware of Tesla, but then continue to see news reports of all the other brands that are coming out with new vehicles.

Again, I'm not saying that Tesla isn't going to be able to sell every vehicle they produce out of Fremont and Austin (and maybe they will be inaugurating a new US factory in 5 years' time) and that they won't have the largest share in the EV market...but in 5 years' time there will be a lot of other brands also selling in probably very healthy numbers if today's demand and wait lists are any indication.

Oh, and one correction to my original post. I just re-read it and maybe there is some confusion over my use of the word "adapter" when I said "A better option would be to buy a mix of Tesla TPC wall connectors + Tesla J1772 adapters" I did not mean Tesla J1772 adapters, I meant Tesla J1772 EVSEs (i.e. a J1772 Destination Charger).

 

[roblab]

I do, on occasion, make a trip long enough to overnight at a motel along the way, and it just so happens that it has L2 charging. I don't pay ANY extra, as the motel uses the chargers to attract affluent(?) customers. They don't charge extra, and if they did, I suspect some owners would drive over to one of the other nearby motels and use them. What with superchargers abounding, why would charging at a motel even be a worry?

 

[RTPEV]

I do, on occasion, make a trip long enough to overnight at a motel along the way, and it just so happens that it has L2 charging. I don't pay ANY extra, as the motel uses the chargers to attract affluent(?) customers. They don't charge extra, and if they did, I suspect some owners would drive over to one of the other nearby motels and use them. What with superchargers abounding, why would charging at a motel even be a worry?

Even with abounding Superchargers, it's a major convenience factor to effectively skip an entire Supercharger stop.

Although Superchargers are not all the "abounding" either.

On my recent trip, my route took me from (approximately) Ogdensburg, NY -> Wellsville, NY -> Olean, NY (at a hotel with a charging station) -> Durham, NC.

The last Supercharger on that route before the Olean charging station was Waterloo, NY, a distance of 141 miles. The first Supercharger directly en route from Olean to Durham is 151 miles, or a total of 292 miles. Figuring in vampire drain, extra cargo weight, weather, and that's definitely cutting it close for my car that effectively has 299 miles of range at 100%! (there are some other "nearby" Superchargers that would be about 30 minutes out of the way, plus the time to charge, but none directly en route).

Sure, this is a unique case (albeit a very real one), but as I said, even in the case of a routine trip on an common interstate route, I can effectively save one Supercharger stop per day by charging overnight. Even as someone who finds that Supercharger stops usually align quite nicely in separation and duration with my own stopping patterns, being able to save a late evening or early morning Supercharger stop is very enticing!

 

[Ogre]

You mean an adapter that came with the car? How is this a problem?

As for production plans 5 years out, I think you may be surprised at how quickly the auto industry is now scrambling to get in on that play.

Auto industry is making a lot of noise. Announcing a lot of models. Producing very few actual cars. And have sourced very few batteries

Not to mention the average hotel owner is probably not going to be familiar with the nuances of production schedules and factory buildouts. They are likely going to be aware of Tesla, but then continue to see news reports of all the other brands that are coming out with new vehicles.

All the more reason to not try and predict the future.

They **know** there are plenty of Teslas out there and will be going into the future. How quickly and effectively the rest of the industry follows is a giant question mark. And as I pointed out above, they can add capacity for those cars later if it really becomes an issue.

The Wall Connector itself is about half the cost of a competing connector.

Actually provisioning the power is going to be less expensive because they can use load sharing, so they can run an 80 amp service for 3 60 amp chargers. With a non-Tesla charger you’d need to run 200 amps or cap each charger at 20 amps. This works for both Tesla and non-Tesla EVs.

You are talking about buying and installing more expensive, less capable chargers on the off chance the rest of the industry catches up in 5 years or so.

 

[RTPEV]

Auto industry is making a lot of noise. Announcing a lot of models. Producing very few actual cars. And have sourced very few batteries

Yep...I would have agreed with this statement 2 years ago.

Not today. I am seeing actual production, and on the opportunity I had to take the same road trip I've been describing last year in our ID4 (and using Electrify America sites instead of Superchargers), I can tell you first hand that even a year ago the fleet of non-Tesla vehicles is real. I've also seen intense interest from friends and family that have gone beyond asking me the tired old questions about EVs, and are now asking about which one I recommend and if I know any that don't have a 6 month wait. The demand is definitely there. And while you do never know about how supply chains will firm up, I feel comfortable enough that within a 5 year timeline we will see high levels of production from many major manufacturers. Several have announced battery supply deals and are actively opening EV & battery factories here in the US (the VW factory in Chattanooga is already turning out pre-production vehicles, and Hyundai just announced a new factory in Georgia).

The surging gas prices combined with the availability of practical, reasonably affordable 250-325 mile EVs has had a remarkable impact from just 2 years ago. I truly believe we are seeing the beginning of the hockey stick curve.

You are talking about buying and installing more expensive, less capable chargers on the off chance the rest of the industry catches up in 5 years or so.

Actually hotels probably don't want to be in the business of buying and installing anything. They want a pre-packaged solution they can just call someone up and make it appear.

The Tesla Destination charger program is attractive because of this. But so is ChargePoint. And I think that's why if you take a look at one of the predominant chains that is pushing EV charging (Hilton) that's why you see those two charging stations at their properties.

 

[Ogre]

Actually hotels probably don't want to be in the business of buying and installing anything. They want a pre-packaged solution they can just call someone up and make it appear.

The Tesla Destination charger program is attractive because of this. But so is ChargePoint. And I think that's why if you take a look at one of the predominant chains that is pushing EV charging (Hilton) that's why you see those two charging stations at their properties.

Likely this is how the choice is made for a hotel owner.

The other big thing is, if you are a Tesla destination charger, your place shows up on Tesla maps. I’m not sure how much longer this will be a big advantage, but for at least a few more years, it is going to bring in some business.

 

[bradtem]

With superchargers almost every hundred miles along the main roads, using destination charging is fairly unnecessary.

Funny, I do the reverse. With hotel charging showing up at more hotels, using superchargers is much less necessary. (You still need them for mid day charging but for the charge you need at the end of the day, the hotel is definitely the way to go.)

1. Most of all, no detour, and it happens while you sleep, so it takes zero time. If you have to pick a more remote hotel there is some detour
2. Usually included with the room. Superchargers are damned expensive these days. Only if you have an older S with unlimited supercharging would this not be considered
3. It's better for your battery
4. Since it takes zero time, if you know you need to charge to the 90-100 range, where superchargers get very slow, that's even better
5. If you end the day at a supercharger it's going to take you 45 minutes or so, so you typically want to eat dinner at the supercharger. That limits your dining choices a lot, and 45 minutes is too fast for a sit-down dinner so you have to get up in the middle of food and move the car.
6. As above, but in general, no idle fees though it is courteous to move when convenient for you.

Why would anybody want to use the supercharger, even if it's free? In fact, I will pay $25 more for the hotel if it gives me charging, vs. a cheaper hotel and having to trudge to the supercharger and wait.

 

[Ogre]

Why would anybody want to use the supercharger, even if it's free? In fact, I will pay $25 more for the hotel if it gives me charging, vs. a cheaper hotel and having to trudge to the supercharger and wait.

I agree.

It’s even more appealing if you are staying multiple days. You arrive, don’t have to worry about charging during the trip, and leave will a full charge.

I choose places based on whether or not there is a charger and don’t even pay attention to rates unless they are way above market.

 

[Earl]

Actually hotels probably don't want to be in the business of buying and installing anything.

I see a charger as being just like air conditioning, street lamps, and ice machines for hotels. They install them all the time. Initially, they'll be something one can advertise. Eventually, their presence will just be assumed.

 

[Ogre]

Just saw this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1554256421184757762