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How much more damage will Remarketing do to Tesla sales before they figure it out?!?

Discussion in 'Tesla, Inc.' started by TSLA Pilot, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. bonaire

    bonaire Active Member

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    I have also seen relistings of New inventory that you had taken down in prior weeks. You may show a new date on the listing but may need a history lookbakc to show oldest listing date and most recent listing date as well, maybe for members. Also, www.teslainventory.com shows 1256 inventory now. They may be using a more brute force look into the URLs.

    I suspect the relisted CPOs are going through the loaner program, delist and relist process. More should show during later periods of the quarter.
     
  2. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    I think there is a lot of misunderstanding @TSLA Pilot in this thread. Partly his fault for making it sound too much about him when that is not his point IMO.

    His point is:

    Telsa remarketing is offering lower valuations for trade-ins than the market value - or perhaps lower that competition would for a trade-in - and that @TSLA Pilot feels on the balance is bad for Tesla's profits as it discourages upgrades (i.e. high profit new cars orders) more than it should.

    @TSLA Pilot 's view seems to be Tesla would make more money by valuing trade-ins higher and thus making more new car sales.

    It is not about his car. That was just the anecdotal data point that got his ball rolling.

    He may be right or wrong, but it is not an unreasonable business thesis by any means.
     
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  3. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    As far as your personal situation, Tesla will match Carmax appraisals when trading in. So you could get an appraisal from CarMax (~1 hour) and take that back to Tesla to get more $$ and still benefit from the trade in tax credit.

    Based on your assumption that Tesla is well below market trade in value on your car, CarMax should easily beat Tesla's price.
     
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  4. bonaire

    bonaire Active Member

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    Can you ask Carmax, wink wink, to offer a little higher valuation if they know you are taking it back to Tesla for trade? Just saying... Matching another valuation can backfire.
     
  5. JAFO

    JAFO Member

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    I get this thread.

    Full on entitlement.

    Here's the reality of the growing company sales objectives....

    NEW CUSTOMERS

    They already have you as a customer.
     
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  6. carter_seattle

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    There isn't a scrap of evidence that this is the case. Tesla owners are generally affluent and educated. The idea that they are en masse accepting below market value for their trade-ins is laughable. What's happening is that Tesla Pilot is comparing a trade-in value to a retail value and complaining about the spread, while ignoring all of the reconditioning and logistics costs.

    I agree with JAFO, it reeks of entitlement.
     
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  7. DÆrik

    DÆrik Member

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    @bonaire I do not brute force their website. I ONLY list cars that they have publicly available on their website. Doing a brute force search is extremely easy, but also can/will be noticed on Tesla's end and is something I would discourage anyone from doing. It will only lead to bad things happening. Tesla Model S CPO Website - Now Live

    Now for a response to @TSLA Pilot . Here is my take.

    I was/am in a similar position. I took delivery of my AP 1.0 refreshed Model S in June 2016. Once I saw AP 2.0 I decided I wanted to upgrade and ordered a 100D. Trading in/selling a car after 6 months of ownership is a terrible idea, I admit that. In the 6 months I had accumulated almost 12,000 miles. Tesla's trade in offer was low, but I also had done A LOT of customization. (All chrome was professionally painted matte black, T-sportline rims, dash cam installed, clear bra install, opti-coat, etc. So it would take them a lot of time to remove all the chrome that I had painted black, and everything else, and restore the car to original factory condition. So I sold my car privately. I found a buyer that appreciated the work I put into my car. Did I possibly miss out on trade-in sales tax credit, Yes. Did I more than make up for it selling my car privately, Yes. Therefore it was a no brainier for me. The trade in offer was lower than I hoped for, but I understand why, they would have restored the car to original factory condition and need to make money off it. As a shareholder I would hope they factor in some profit on all sales regardless of CPO/Inventory/New.

    Costs that go into reselling a trade in as CPO for Tesla:
    - Reconditioning
    - Addition of new warranty
    - depreciation (depending on how quickly the car is sold)
    - Transport costs
    - Employee costs
    - Other overhead costs (including but certainly not limited to: listing in database, storage of car, showing car to buyers, test drives, insurance costs, etc)
    ** The above costs are what are contributing to the trade-in value VS. list price delta.

    Thanks Erik
     
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  8. DragonWatch

    DragonWatch Small FootPrint

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    We are now in the process of selling off two cars and down sizing to the MX. I believe I am an average computer user. I have been learning and relearning computers programs since 1978.

    We are selling our Prius to our daughters family. I did the research and got three sources for a trade-in of our Tacoma. I have coordinated a dealer trade-in average price with Tesla and am having the truck detailed tomorrow/Monday.

    Once I get the pictures required, I can either coordinate for a physical inspection or submit via the intranet the finalization of my trade-in.

    Once I did the number crunching involving a trade-in vs all cash we opted for a trade-in. Why, well the trade-in impacts the amount of our car loan. Where as the cash option impacts tax refunds in 2018.

    So for us, that was/is the better of the two options.

    Bottom line Tesla will at least meet your expectations of a trade-in from my perspective. Now, I will only know for sure all is as I expect once they take possession of the Tacoma and credit my MX account next week. My fall back position is selling it off thru USAA to a dealer or individual, but again I have an eye on paying less taxes in 2017 with a trade-in vs cash.
     
  9. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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    #69 FlatSix911, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
    This site tracks US deliveries of all EV's by month ... note that sales historically start low at the beginning of each quarter and ramp up.
    February data will be available next week :cool:

    Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard

    upload_2017-2-26_10-29-37.png
     
    • Informative x 1
  10. DÆrik

    DÆrik Member

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    I was playing around on my website and found a similar car to yours, Model S P90D 5YJSA1E40FF109155 | Tesla . Based off your post, I found the closest CPO Tesla has for sale right now almost matches your car, with the exception of Tan seats instead of Black and the color is Pearl White instead of your Midnight Silver (Pearl white is actually more expensive).

    Tesla is selling their car for $111,000. So I looked at your original post and the car that you originally quoted at 116k has rear facing seats. So it isn't as quite a good comparison as the one I found.

    Being that your car has about 1,000 more miles, it could be said that another $1,000 could be deducted from the 111k comparable car. Therefore I think the 10k delta is much more reasonable than the 16k delta you originally spoke of. What they listed for the value of your car, post 1 on this thread, I agree with.

    Thanks Erik
     
  11. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    The OP's contention is that Tesla is trying to profit by lowballing trade in offers instead of attracting upgrades by current owners. However if you read the Q4 update letter you'll find that the gross margin for Service and Other revenue declined from 5% in Q3 to -11% in Q4. While Tesla highlighted the buildup of service resources as contributing to this, if CPO sales were very profitable the margins would not have declined so dramatically.

    I have a friend who recently purchased a 2013 P85 with 22K miles for $50K. While it is lightly optioned, the original MSRP was more than $90K. So this car lost almost half its value in 3 years. I doubt if the original owner was happy with his trade in or if Tesla made any money on this deal. As others have said, cars are a depreciating asset that are traded in at wholesale prices and purchased at retail prices.
     
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  12. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Active Member

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    #72 eye.surgeon, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
    Checked Tesla stock lately? Investors don't seem to be sharing your concern.
     
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  13. mmd

    mmd Active Member

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    The auction of the 2016 P90DL with 4410 miles, original MSRP $144k, that I mentioned earlier just ended. Final bid went up by $1000 in the last minute, to $91,100. Those CPO asking prices look high. $100.9k for the OP's car (2015 with more miles) was a very good offer, IMO.

    2016 Tesla Model S P90D | eBay
     
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  14. n2mb_racing

    n2mb_racing Member

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    Just another data point. The 2016 P90DL I leased last September had an MSRP of $142,700. The purchase price would have been $108,900 with the $1k referral discount. It was a demo unit with 5k miles, built around April of 2016.
     
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  15. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    I would not be surprised if Tesla's trade-in value is less than that of others. It seems quite possible to me given all I've read and experienced.

    Is @TSLA Pilot 's thesis wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But jumping to entitlement is armchair psychology from a distance that would be even more hard (and pointless) to determine or discuss.

    For a company that claims service or Supercharging will never be a profit center, that sounds like a terrible strategy.

    If your money comes from selling cars, selling more of them IS the business. Now, how trade-ins should be valued and calculated into that is of course a debate with a multitude of views.
     
  16. carter_seattle

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    Less than who? And what is your hypothesis for why so many Tesla owners are accepting below market offers? His hypothesis requires all Tesla owners who trade-in to be making a bad economic decision.
     
  17. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Less than what reasonably could be expected of a trade-in value at a dealer when buying new car... on average.

    Do I have studies to back that up? Of course not. But as I said, I would not be surprised if that was the case.

    There are better and worse places for trade-ins in the world. From the looks and sounds of it, I believe Tesla is more likely closer to the latter than former.

    As to why people accept it? Why do they accept it elsewhere (Tesla is not the only place)? Convenience. Ignorance. And some will sell private. And some will postpone upgrades.

    For me @TSLA Pilot presented anecdotal data and a business tactic opinion. Fair enough. Is he right? Who knows.
     
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  18. MrAustraliaTax

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    1. Then they'd go broke even faster than they are now.

    2. I don't want to sell my Tesla. I have an AP1 Model S P85D still on firmware 7.1. My Tesla actually works properly. New Teslas all come out of the factory broken.
     
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  19. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

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    Tesla wants to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport, but they want to do it as a profitable company, not a non-profit.
    Sure they might have lost your business (for the time being) but they've made money on ten other trade-ins since this discussion started.
     
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  20. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    When I first launched ev-cpo, I was updating the "listing date" to the current date is a car was unlisted and then relisted. Then I added a "Days on Market" column to see the cars that were or were not selling quickly. Right after I did that, I started to notice Tesla delisting and immediately relisting cars with large DOM values, which had the effect of resetting the DOM calculation. Now since correlation is not causation, I have no idea if Tesla was doing that intentionally to reset the DOM calculation, or it was just a coincidence. Either way, I changed the site so that if a car was re-listed, it always retains the original listing date. And it's still that way now. So if you look at "Date Added" that always reflects the first date with the car was found and listed.
     
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