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How much more damage will Remarketing do to Tesla sales before they figure it out?!?

Discussion in 'Tesla, Inc.' started by TSLA Pilot, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. bonaire

    bonaire Active Member

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    Sounds good - kind of like an original attribute of the primary key (being the Vin # itself) to identify the original attribute of the row. Re-listing and causing a reset of DOM might have been a trick to the aggregators - but now if you refer to the first date it's more realistic.
     
  2. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    That is one hypothesis. Sure.

    But it is not an unreasonable hypothesis that Tesla mighy actually make more profit by lowering their trade-in profit and thus selling more higher margin new cars.

    It is plausible. Not certain, of course, but a hypothesis just like yours.
     
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    Your reasoning is flawed here because a shift to your suggested strategy would cause them to lose money compared to every CPO sale they make today. By analogy, you could equally argue that Tesla should charge less for their new cars. Then they would sell more!

    But the reality is that Tesla tries to maximize profit while growing. Elon knows that he needs capital for growth, and shareholders have a profit motive. I would be a lot more sympathetic to your argument if a secondary market did not exist.

    Cheers, and thank you very much for supporting Tesla.
     
  4. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    It is not my hypothesis. It is @TSLA Pilot 's - my understanding of it anyway. I just consider it a reasonable hypothesis. It may or may not be right, but it did not "reek of entitlement" (as some suggested) to me. Just one thesis/hypothesis amongst others.

    And yes, Tesla might well also sell more cars and make more money by lowering prices. It is not impossible nor unreasonable to speculate or opine on in any case.

    These are the balancing acts of any business.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

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    True, but I bet Tesla has given it a lot more thought than either of us, so whatever they're doing currently is probably the best strategy.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  6. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Another otherwise somewhat intelligent post, but that misses the point, and it misses many HUGE details in this sale to wildly extrapolate to an incorrect conclusion. (And your 3rd point is odd--we don't buy Teslas to park them. We cycle through Teslas to put more on the street and displace ICE cars. Our oldest, an early '13 P85, now has 82k miles in my brother's use.)

    Now to your other points:

    First, one eBay auction does not a market make, especially because it is but a single point in time: what was it worth to those searching for this exact car when the auction ended?

    Second, this car has the "death" option for a P90D: Third Row Seats. They weigh add a hundred pounds (or more) to the car and how many people are looking for a performance car with extra mass for slower performance?

    Third, it's missing an enabled AP. People like their P90D's loaded.

    Fourth, let's look at the seller. It's 2017, yet the seller has ZERO previous sales? How does that happen? Furthermore, he's not listed the eBay CarFax equivalent on this site? Really? He's too cheap to spring for that on a car with an MSRP in the $140k's? Something is fishy, hence: Low bids and a major PASS.

    However, let's agree, just for arguments sake, that this P90D eBay auction somehow is an indicator of "market value" for a Tesla P90D CPO. (Which I don't think is accurate.) If I buy a new P100D with a margin of $30,000+, and they give me $115k for my trade in, where does Tesla stand?

    Tesla stands to make $5,000 profit, at a minimum, and they make another new car sale. The new car sale stops the negative trend in the deliveries, which is likely a key factor in TSLA stock decline.

    And since I suggest your premise is wrong anyway--with proper marketing to the right buyers, the Tesla CPO market should explode, and lead to increased demand and stronger pricing.

    Examples:

    1. Why is not nearly every employee car in Tesla's Fremont factory and HQ a Tesla CPO? I can easily see all sorts of payroll deduction programs to get everyone from the interns (well, maybe not them) to the C-Suite execs in a new or CPO Tesla ASAP. An MS 60 from 2013 is getting to the point where the payments could be manageable by a large swath of the employees, even in high cost CA.

    2. Speaking of generating demand: Lists and more lists! For little money I can probably buy a list with the home address of every EPA employee that is a GS-____ or higher. We should be leaving a loaner Tesla in their driveway for a week. If they can't swing a new one, we should give them a list of CPO's that will fit their needs, with finance and lease terms that work for them.

    3. How about sending targeted mailings to every Leaf and Volt owner that meets certain demographic profiles, offering them the one week Tesla "drop off?" They are quite perfect for this as they already have charging infrastructure at their home or office. Feels like a no-brainer to create more demand for CPO Teslas, no?

    In closing, your interesting eBay auction example is yet another example of why Tesla.com should be THE source for all Tesla sales, both CPO and new.

    Thank you for your comments.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Of course, you're trying to be funny, right?

    In case you're not, Elon's all about no price reductions on a new, non-inventory, Tesla.

    Thus, since there are major sales problems (see 10% deliveries drop and January sales that fell off a cliff), he needs to incentivise people like me: a strong supporter that WANTS to buy one or two no Teslas. There are likely a lot of us that will pull out our wallets if he'll make us "an offer we can't refuse" on our trade-ins.

    How does Tesla avoid being killed on huge losses on the CPO cars?

    BY MARKETING THEM CORRECTLY TO THE RIGHT BUYERS. This is something that has not been done, and is the reason this thread exists. Here are the facts:

    1. The Tesla CPO search engine is an absolute joke.

    2. Their policies (such as stripping off thousands of dollars of wrap and throwing it away?!?) are stupid, if not insane.

    3. They end up dumping way, way too many for a small fraction of their worth at used car sellers around the globe, which damages value and looks, and is, pathetic.

    Here's just one example:

    Get WOW'd at Texas Direct Auto!

    Compare this seller with Tesla's own site:

    Tesla has NOT ONE PICTURE of a CPO Tesla. These guys have a dozen plus.

    It's long past time for new thinking at Tesla Remarketing, and it's critical that it happen YESTERDAY.
     
    • Like x 1
  8. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Maybe, maybe not.

    With all due respect, I find it hard to believe. That explanation just doesn't carry a lot of water. Tesla has been building MS's for a while, and the MX demand is well known as well. Suppliers had a date to be up and running, and the numbers needed were pretty straight forward (and are small by OEM standards given that Tesla has a fraction of 1% of the global auto market).

    I posit that if deliveries aren't up to snuff, there may be other reasons over and above those provided . . . .

    I would very much like to help fix that by buying another MS, as would others who want to upgrade for the promises of AP2, but as long as OA's cringe (and rightfully so) when someone pulls up in a Tesla, well, I don't see a lot of us doing that.

    Tesla should be the Center of the Universe for all things BEV and Tesla. The best way to do that is to get us back in a new Tesla more often, and fixing their very, very broken CPO Program.
     
  9. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Stirthepot, I'm not sure you wrote your thoughts correctly?

    I AM trying to buy a new Tesla. This does good things: it helps reverse Tesla's negative trend line on deliveries, and it puts another new SOLD Tesla on the street.

    Walking isn't an option as I need to go too far in any given day.

    It's not like they're crushing our trade ins. They sell them, hopefully, as CPO's. Problem: CPO Program is a disaster and needs a thorough revamp.

    Thanks.
     
  10. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Wish I could agree, but I see a major problem looming for both Q1 and Q2 if this is accurate:

    January 2017 Plug-In Electric Vehicle Sales Report Card

    It may be an anomaly, or it may suggest that every passing day that brings us closer to July 1st is a major problem because more cars need to be sold in an ever smaller number of days.

    Tesla knows for sure how bad it is (or maybe not), but, regardless, I've relayed my very recent experience. I've told you the hell the OA's endure when someone tries to trade a Tesla in.

    I'ts just stunning. I've purchased a lot of Teslas. I'd like to buy one (or maybe even two) more this quarter, and I'm stymied because Tesla Remarketing has an atrocious CPO program that drives down the value of the cars and the brand (see the number of Teslas for sale at used cars "megastores" online).

    Someone at Tesla just don't seem to get it:

    Their job is NOT to just "unload" used Teslas. Their job is to stimulate demand for new Teslas . . . that's where our planet is saved (and some money might be made).

    What's not to like about that outcome?
     
  11. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Thank you for your concise summary; you hit the nail on the head.

    It's all about stimulating the sale of NEW Teslas.

    Everything is good when a new Tesla gets sold!
     
    • Like x 1
  12. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Sorry, but you are only 1/3rd correct.

    Three ways to grow sales:

    1. Get more customers.

    2. Get current customers to return more often.

    3. Get current customers to buy more with each visit.

    I'm trying to help Tesla to do a better job with 2 and 3.

    I want to buy one (or two) more MS's THIS quarter.

    But I won't.

    Why? Because Tesla Remarketing is broken.

    It's just that simple.
     
  13. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    No, they aren't accepting "below market value" en masse.

    They just don't trade them in at Tesla so they buy something else, or they don't do anything at all (see: deliveries down by 10%; January sales falling off a cliff).

    The spread of which you speak appears to be $18,000:

    Model S P90D 5YJSA1E40GF126555 | Tesla

    My point: reduce that spread and Tesla will sell more NEW Teslas.

    That is the source of all good things for our planet's future and for Tesla going forward.

    Period.

    I'm sorry you cannot understand the business case for encouraging Tesla owners to get on an iPhone-like trade-in/replacement schedule.
     
  14. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Good find.

    I wonder why there's such a spread between cars?

    Model S P90D 5YJSA1E40GF126555 | Tesla

    My hunch: condition?

    Hard to know when Tesla CPO asks buyers to buy a six-figure car without a SINGLE PHOTO of the actual car . . . .

    Tip to Tesla: Buy some high-end drones. Program them to take an identical flight path around a Tesla parked in exactly the same spot every time. Post the 360 degree videos on the CPO site so that buyers might get to virtually inspect the car they're interested in.

    It's not too hard to increase demand for CPO Teslas and stop their "dumping" on the internet's used car megastores.
     
  15. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Confused about your comment.

    Aren't we down something like 10 or 15% in the last few trading days?

    I don't focus on that all the time because it can become an "attitude barometer" and who needs that? I'm in this to save the friggin' planet and to do that Tesla, and TSLA, need to do well.
     
  16. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Already discussed, but this one sale doesn't "make the market" for host of reasons:

    1. No seller history. Zero. How does that happen in 2017?

    2. No CarFax equivalent posted. Red flag.

    3. Has undesired/negative option in the 3rd Row Seat option. When Force = mass X's acceleration (F = ma), you want a lower "m" for more "a."

    And it's yet another example of a car that TESLA should be selling, not some schmuck on the internet . . . it's likely there because Tesla Remarketing is a failure and they wholesaled it for pennies on the dollar, or because the original owner wanted the AP2 upgrade and was insulted by the trade in offer?

    (Tesla probably knows, but they're not talking;-)
     
  17. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    So Tesla will "go broke even faster" by selling more new Teslas?

    This is absurd.

    The major cash flow at Tesla comes from THE SALE OF NEW TESLAS.

    The profit is, ah, a bit short because of a host of reasons: Gigafactories are expensive, new SC's are expensive, GROWTH is expensive.

    But that's the story of GROWTH companies and it's okay.

    BUT: We have a potential disaster brewing is the short-term delivery shortfall isn't just the regular variation in sales.

    I'm trying to help.

    Tesla Remarketing makes it difficult for me, and others--to include Tesla's own OA's--to buy/sell more Teslas.

    That needs to be fixed.
     
  18. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Very clever and informative.

    You are quite the asset to all Tesla buyers!
     
  19. Nismode

    Nismode Member

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    Car dealers generally frown upon any modifications to cars. You'd be better off selling it privately or to a used car dealer. You seemed so fixated on how they can remove thousands of dollars of wrap - anything aftermarket is typically removed so that the car can be sold as OEM spec as possible. Wheels, wrap, dashcams, radar detectors, laser jammers, all of that has a cost to remove. I see where you're coming from but I'm sure that there is a calculated method to their madness. And who's to say that they aren't implementing the ideas you're speaking of in markets outside of your own?
     
  20. bonaire

    bonaire Active Member

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    What is your use of the Teslas? Are you trading in after short periods or do you run a fleet of Uber-type cars? I could also guess you are trying to "help" Tesla by rolling new-unit sales through high purchase count but I haven't read your past posts in detail.
     

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