How much more damage will Remarketing do to Tesla sales before they figure it out?!?

[Pezpunk]

your gripe is that you "only" got offered a trade-in value equivalent to 70% of the original price of a car you bought new 2 years ago?

first of all, greetings, and welcome to Earth! i hope you are enjoying your stay. here on our planet, that's actually a pretty good deal! we welcome you here and look forward to you becoming more aware of this planet's customs!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

your gripe is that you "only" got offered a trade-in value equivalent to 70% of the original price of a car you bought new 2 years ago?

first of all, greetings, and welcome to Earth! i hope you are enjoying your stay. here on our planet, that's actually a pretty good deal! we welcome you here and look forward to you becoming more aware of this planet's customs!

Way to miss his point.

Welcome to the planet where people simply do not read what they respond to.

 

[mmd]

Another otherwise somewhat intelligent post, but that misses the point, and it misses many HUGE details in this sale to wildly extrapolate to an incorrect conclusion. (And your 3rd point is odd--we don't buy Teslas to park them. We cycle through Teslas to put more on the street and displace ICE cars. Our oldest, an early '13 P85, now has 82k miles in my brother's use.)

Now to your other points:

First, one eBay auction does not a market make, especially because it is but a single point in time: what was it worth to those searching for this exact car when the auction ended?

Second, this car has the "death" option for a P90D: Third Row Seats. They weigh add a hundred pounds (or more) to the car and how many people are looking for a performance car with extra mass for slower performance?

Third, it's missing an enabled AP. People like their P90D's loaded.

Fourth, let's look at the seller. It's 2017, yet the seller has ZERO previous sales? How does that happen? Furthermore, he's not listed the eBay CarFax equivalent on this site? Really? He's too cheap to spring for that on a car with an MSRP in the $140k's? Something is fishy, hence: Low bids and a major PASS.

However, let's agree, just for arguments sake, that this P90D eBay auction somehow is an indicator of "market value" for a Tesla P90D CPO. (Which I don't think is accurate.) If I buy a new P100D with a margin of $30,000+, and they give me $115k for my trade in, where does Tesla stand?

Tesla stands to make $5,000 profit, at a minimum, and they make another new car sale. The new car sale stops the negative trend in the deliveries, which is likely a key factor in TSLA stock decline.

And since I suggest your premise is wrong anyway--with proper marketing to the right buyers, the Tesla CPO market should explode, and lead to increased demand and stronger pricing.

Examples:

1. Why is not nearly every employee car in Tesla's Fremont factory and HQ a Tesla CPO? I can easily see all sorts of payroll deduction programs to get everyone from the interns (well, maybe not them) to the C-Suite execs in a new or CPO Tesla ASAP. An MS 60 from 2013 is getting to the point where the payments could be manageable by a large swath of the employees, even in high cost CA.

2. Speaking of generating demand: Lists and more lists! For little money I can probably buy a list with the home address of every EPA employee that is a GS-____ or higher. We should be leaving a loaner Tesla in their driveway for a week. If they can't swing a new one, we should give them a list of CPO's that will fit their needs, with finance and lease terms that work for them.

3. How about sending targeted mailings to every Leaf and Volt owner that meets certain demographic profiles, offering them the one week Tesla "drop off?" They are quite perfect for this as they already have charging infrastructure at their home or office. Feels like a no-brainer to create more demand for CPO Teslas, no?

In closing, your interesting eBay auction example is yet another example of why Tesla.com should be THE source for all Tesla sales, both CPO and new.

Thank you for your comments.

Are you kidding, that a 7 or 14 day listing on a national marketplace like Ebay is not sufficient marketing for a car? Check the other Model S listings on Ebay. None of them are getting too many bids. Ebay also sends out car lists to people who browsed Teslas in the past. How much more marketing do you want Tesla to do? May be they should place a super bowl ad for Tesla CPOs

That car has a "death option" FOR YOU, not the original buyer who paid more than you did. Same with your car. Someone will find a death option to reject it at high enough price.

1. Why is not nearly every employee car in Tesla's Fremont factory and HQ a Tesla CPO? I can easily see all sorts of payroll deduction programs to get everyone from the interns (well, maybe not them) to the C-Suite execs in a new or CPO Tesla ASAP. An MS 60 from 2013 is getting to the point where the payments could be manageable by a large swath of the employees, even in high cost CA.

Wow, you remind me of the phrase "Let them eat cake "
Let them eat cake - Wikipedia

First, the 5000+ factory workers with $17-$21/hr are out; they can't even afford insurance for a Tesla.They won't get a loan either. Second, they can't bear the depreciation loss from their long commutes. Have you seen the repair costs and delays for Teslas? A CPO Tesla is still way more expensive for engineer type employees here, who can easily lease a Nissan Leaf or E-golf for under $100 a month, sometimes $49 a month. 80 mile EV is good enough for commute and gets the carpool sticker. Even those Tesla employees who can affod a CPO, may not find CPO tesla as the best option for various reasons. You can't force a certain car on employees; it's employment at will.

I don't know where you live, but here in CA , PG&E just announced a rate increase (11%?) for electricity. Electric cars may not be cheap to run anymore. An expensive electric car is simply not affordable for most people, even in the upper income brackets.

If I understand your situation, it is like this:
You love Tesla and think they are the ONLY one changing the world. You also hold tons of TSLA stock. So, you are desperate to boost their sales numbers, to indirectly help the stock price.
What you don't realize is that some market conditions may be far beyond Tesla's control. CPO sales/trade in situations is just a small piece of the whole issue of having saturated the premium electric car market.

In short, I agree with your observation, but don't agree that your solution is good. There are many ways, each with its own drawbacks.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

True, but I bet Tesla has given it a lot more thought than either of us, so whatever they're doing currently is probably the best strategy.

Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that Tesla has given it "a lot more thought than either of us."

Let's look at the evidence:

1. OA's hate it when someone pulls up in a Tesla and wants to look at a new one. (Because they have to insult customers, good customers, customers that have returned to buy another six-figure car, with an absurd trade in valuation.)

2. There are many, many Teslas being wholesaled (at probably scary low prices, prices that kill the trade in value for EVERYONE who owns a Tesla) to internet used car lots.

3. Tesla can't be bothered to provide even a slightly decent search engine on their website.

4. Perhaps you would you like some actual photographs of your potential six-figure used car? No, Tesla doesn't provide them.

5. Many have posted about the poor condition of their new-to-them CPO cars, many arriving with extensive, unreported damage.

Sorry, but I find this to be very, very far from the "best strategy."

ALL OF THESE INDICATE THAT TESLA CPO IS LONG OVERDUE FOR A REVAMP. TESLA'S SCREWED UP CPO PROGRAM SERVES TO REDUCE THE VALUE OF EVERY TESLA OWNER'S CAR.

I envision Tesla.com as the "Go To" place for ALL things Tesla, to include the very important CPO fleet because nearly every CPO car should be a tool to increase the sales of new Teslas.

Teslas should be rarely found at the various used car lots for that indicates that Tesla lost a customer in a trade in, or simply couldn't sell a car due to their ineptitude.

The fact that Tesla can't properly market the CPO cars leads to terrible trade in values, and that lowers demand for new Teslas, as I can personally attest to with at least three attempts to upgrade our most recent Teslas.

Here's a tip: if a customer wants to buy more of your product, make it easy for them to do so . . . not painful for both parties.

One could argue that at the end of the day, EVERYTHING hinges on the sales of new Teslas: the transition to sustainable transport, the success or failure of Tesla as a company, and the long-term usability of our one and only planet . . . . All of that matters, no?

 

[Shock-On-T]

Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that Tesla has given it "a lot more thought than either of us."

Let's look at the evidence:

1. OA's hate it when someone pulls up in a Tesla and wants to look at a new one. (Because they have to insult customers, good customers, customers that have returned to buy another six-figure car, with an absurd trade in valuation.)

2. There are many, many Teslas being wholesaled (at probably scary low prices, prices that kill the trade in value for EVERYONE who owns a Tesla) to internet used car lots.

3. Tesla can't be bothered to provide even a slightly decent search engine on their website.

4. Perhaps you would you like some actual photographs of your potential six-figure used car? No, Tesla doesn't provide them.

5. Many have posted about the poor condition of their new-to-them CPO cars, many arriving with extensive, unreported damage.

Sorry, but I find this to be very, very far from the "best strategy."

ALL OF THESE INDICATE THAT TESLA CPO IS LONG OVERDUE FOR A REVAMP. TESLA'S SCREWED UP CPO PROGRAM SERVES TO REDUCE THE VALUE OF EVERY TESLA OWNER'S CAR.

I envision Tesla.com as the "Go To" place for ALL things Tesla, to include the very important CPO fleet because nearly every CPO car should be a tool to increase the sales of new Teslas.

Teslas should be rarely found at the various used car lots for that indicates that Tesla lost a customer in a trade in, or simply couldn't sell a car due to their ineptitude.

The fact that Tesla can't properly market the CPO cars leads to terrible trade in values, and that lowers demand for new Teslas, as I can personally attest to with at least three attempts to upgrade our most recent Teslas.

Here's a tip: if a customer wants to buy more of your product, make it easy for them to do so . . . not painful for both parties.

One could argue that at the end of the day, EVERYTHING hinges on the sales of new Teslas: the transition to sustainable transport, the success or failure of Tesla as a company, and the long-term usability of our one and only planet . . . . All of that matters, no?

I know it's painful but prestige cars always take a massive hit, especially on trade-in. You may be better off selling privately.
My dad was a motor dealer and I remember hanging around after school one day when he was talking to a customer who wanted to trade in a Saab. Neither of them were too happy, and later my father told me it killed him to offer so little, but he knew he just couldn't shift this guy's car.
I agree with you that the ultimate mission is to build and sell electric cars as fast as possible. Hopefully the M3 will make it easier for all.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Car dealers generally frown upon any modifications to cars. You'd be better off selling it privately or to a used car dealer. You seemed so fixated on how they can remove thousands of dollars of wrap - anything aftermarket is typically removed so that the car can be sold as OEM spec as possible. Wheels, wrap, dashcams, radar detectors, laser jammers, all of that has a cost to remove. I see where you're coming from but I'm sure that there is a calculated method to their madness. And who's to say that they aren't implementing the ideas you're speaking of in markets outside of your own?

Nismode, not to pick on you, but since comments similar to yours have come up on this thread before I will address them now.

This comment re: the clear wrap on our Teslas is so far from intelligent it falls in to the realm of "head exploding stupid." In fact, if there hadn't been an $11,300 discount for Tesla's "Cost to resell" (which would include the insane "Lose/Lose/Lose" removal of the wrap) in my first trade-in valuation back in December, this thread probably wouldn't exist and I'd be in a new Tesla right now . . . .

But since I hate it when otherwise intelligent people do stupid things, here we are.

I fully understand the customization issue. That can be a problem. However, this a clear wrap, something Tesla itself used to offer as a factory option. It is NOT a problem, it's an expensive asset.

Let me give you an example: Does your car have floor mats?

Why?

To protect the carpet from stains, wear, and the abuse of dirty shoes. Dirty shoes are common because we walk on the ground, and the ground frequently has dirt, mud and snow on it. Floor mats are easy and inexpensive to replace as they wear out. Carpet replacement? It's the opposite: hard and expensive.

So let's extend the metaphor to wraps as it's quite similar. Nearly identical, actually.

When someone spends thousands of dollars for a clear wrap on their car, they do so because when driving, rocks, debris and other things tend to impact a car's paint. The hood, mirrors, front bumper, A-pillar, etc., all suffer the brunt of those impacts and turn the beautiful factory paint into, well, something that doesn't look very nice. It is very expensive to replace, just like the carpet of a car. Thus, think of clear wrap, or more accurately, Paint Protection Film, as "floor mats for your paint."

I GET IT: Tesla didn't install the wrap. Fine. So what Tesla needs to do is have an intern draft up the following OFFICIAL TESLA RELEASE:

Dear CPO Buyer,

The previous owner of your new CPO Tesla Model ____, VIN __________, had your car wrapped with _________________ brand wrap at a significant cost, as indicated in the documentation he/she provided on Trade In.

We find the condition of the wrap to be ______________, based on our subjective evaluation and have left it on the car.

Obviously, we cannot warrant this wrap installation in any way, but do advise that if for some reason you do not like it, it can be removed by nearly any automobile detailing shop or auto body shop at minimal cost, usually one or two hundred dollars. There are also instructions for doing it yourself on line, if you so desire. (Personally, if it was our car we'd keep it on as it helps protect the factory paint for years to come which will enhance your trade in value when it's time for your next Tesla!)

Sincerely,


Tesla Motors

So, rather than pissing off a loyal customer by giving him a reduced trade in value because Tesla will have labor costs to remove a perfectly fine wrap, an expensive wrap that the customer paid to install, and then selling a CPO car that has no wrap, why not convert that "Lose/Lose/Lose" scenario into a Win/Win/Win instead?

Oh, and it would lead to the sale of more Teslas too . . . .

This is just another indicator of how screwed up Tesla's trade in/CPO Program is, and how it hurts the sales of new Teslas, which is key to Tesla's success and, possibly, the future of life on our one and only planet.

Why is this so hard to fathom?

 

[TSLA Pilot]

I know it's painful but prestige cars always take a massive hit, especially on trade-in. You may be better off selling privately.
My dad was a motor dealer and I remember hanging around after school one day when he was talking to a customer who wanted to trade in a Saab. Neither of them were too happy, and later my father told me it killed him to offer so little, but he knew he just couldn't shift this guy's car.
I agree with you that the ultimate mission is to build and sell electric cars as fast as possible. Hopefully the M3 will make it easier for all.

Sorry, but I'm afraid you've missed the point. It's not the valuation, per se, but the spread from what they are selling similar CPO cars for on their own website, and the discount for removing thousands of dollars of clear wrap, and the overall loss of the "Big Picture" at Tesla where it would make a lot of sense to breakeven or even lose money on the trade in side of the equation to SELL A NEW TESLA.

All problems are solved with growing sales of NEW TESLAS.

Frankly, Teslas SHOULD have lower depreciation than other premium cars because they are so much more superior. The fact that Tesla ends up dumping so many via used car "megastores" on the Internet is a testament to their gross incompetence in this area.

I have posted earlier that Tesla needs to have targeted marketing on these cars--a lot of people are profoundly ignorant about BEV's and Teslas, even people that should know better. Every parking spot at the EPA (while it exists) should be filled with new Teslas years ago (for the higher pay grades) and CPO Teslas for the lower pay grades. Likewise, there are a host of "green" organizations with whom the purchase of their mailing lists might lead to a wonderful outcome.

I never finished my MBA so I'm sure there are dozens more ideas out there and they need to be acted upon. Tesla's atrocious marketing of CPO cars hurts ALL of us that buy Telas, and it's just remarkably unintelligent that it's gone on this long.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

your gripe is that you "only" got offered a trade-in value equivalent to 70% of the original price of a car you bought new 2 years ago?

first of all, greetings, and welcome to Earth! i hope you are enjoying your stay. here on our planet, that's actually a pretty good deal! we welcome you here and look forward to you becoming more aware of this planet's customs!

Pezpunk, I'd encourage you to read more slowly and thoughtfully as you've missed the point.

It's NOT the valuation per se, but the entire process by which Tesla handles trade ins. It KILLS the value of every Tesla ever made because of their inept re-marketing of these cars, which then leads to dumping the cars at wholesale auctions, all of which are "not good" for a long list of reasons already addressed.

I can't/won't re-type my previous posts, but if you'll spend a few minutes doing a "deeper dive" you're sure to be become better informed on the issue here.

Thank you.

 

[lolachampcar]

TPiolot,
Please forgive me for not reading through all the posts.
Tesla is a S. Valley bunch of kids playing at business. They approach cars and customers like an internet business; there are more than they need so they need do nothing to earn them. That worked in the beginning and will slowly fade until, that is, they come out with the quantum leap new IPhone (Model 3) at which point the we have more than we need attitude will once again be re-inforced.

Tesla decided to get into the CPO business to "control" the secondary sales experience. The high end used car people are better dressed but are still used car salesmen. They will say anything necessary to bag the commission and move product. As cars were finding their way to the secondary market, Tesla was getting tarred by these salesmen with customers that have never had an interaction with Tesla being flat out lied to about the car, its capabilities and how to live with it (charging, superchargers, etc.). Tesla's solution was CPO. Most companies get involved with CPO to manage customer loyalty and keep new car customers from considering another brand. Tesla did it to keep used cars out of other dealer's hands. That is a big difference. On top of that, Tesla can never be competitive with those used car dealers who work on volume, with low overhead and on kickbacks from things like financing products. Tesla's solution was to use their first point of contact with the returning customer (and, in some cases control over trade in sales tax credit) to buy trades on the cheap. Most people do not know any better or can not be bothered to care. I DID notice when Tesla offered me $9K less for my P+ trade then one of their own wholesale ICE trade partners. (before anyone posts, this was a wholesale to wholesale comparison with one of Tesla's own wholesale partners so do not give me this premium cars depreciate stuff - that argument simply does not fly). Tesla single handedly prematurely took 8% out of the wholesale market and continues to treat their returning customers worse than they treat new customers (based on new customers getting competitive trade offers for ICE trades).

I could site other instances where Tesla has treated their customers in a similar fashion. This practice will not change until Tesla has to earn customers based on something other than having a product no one else has. As Tesla likes to point out, they are different. Most of those differences are good; some are not.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Are you kidding, that a 7 or 14 day listing on a national marketplace like Ebay is not sufficient marketing for a car? Check the other Model S listings on Ebay. None of them are getting too many bids. Ebay also sends out car lists to people who browsed Teslas in the past. How much more marketing do you want Tesla to do? May be they should place a super bowl ad for Tesla CPOs

That car has a "death option" FOR YOU, not the original buyer who paid more than you did. Same with your car. Someone will find a death option to reject it at high enough price.


Wow, you remind me of the phrase "Let them eat cake "
Let them eat cake - Wikipedia

First, the 5000+ factory workers with $17-$21/hr are out; they can't even afford insurance for a Tesla.They won't get a loan either. Second, they can't bear the depreciation loss from their long commutes. Have you seen the repair costs and delays for Teslas? A CPO Tesla is still way more expensive for engineer type employees here, who can easily lease a Nissan Leaf or E-golf for under $100 a month, sometimes $49 a month. 80 mile EV is good enough for commute and gets the carpool sticker. Even those Tesla employees who can affod a CPO, may not find CPO tesla as the best option for various reasons. You can't force a certain car on employees; it's employment at will.

I don't know where you live, but here in CA , PG&E just announced a rate increase (11%?) for electricity. Electric cars may not be cheap to run anymore. An expensive electric car is simply not affordable for most people, even in the upper income brackets.

If I understand your situation, it is like this:
You love Tesla and think they are the ONLY one changing the world. You also hold tons of TSLA stock. So, you are desperate to boost their sales numbers, to indirectly help the stock price.
What you don't realize is that some market conditions may be far beyond Tesla's control. CPO sales/trade in situations is just a small piece of the whole issue of having saturated the premium electric car market.

In short, I agree with your observation, but don't agree that your solution is good. There are many ways, each with its own drawbacks.

I must not have been clear in my postings for you do not understand "my" or Tesla's situation well.

Let me comment on your thoughts first:

1. The eBay Tesla had a host defects, already discussed: Seller had ZERO feedback, yet was a car dealer. It's 2017. That's quite remarkable and suspect. The seller provided no "CarFax" equivalent. Another red flag. And there was another issue IIRC. All of note, but also an indicator of how these cars need to be well marketed.

2. Some people need and want the 3rd Row seating. Many/most or a major portion (all guesses) consider them to a negative option on the "P" class Teslas as most "P" buyers spend more to maximize performance. Mass reduces performance and the 3rd Row Seating and associated structural upgrades add significant mass. The car can be sold, but with negative options it takes longer and will likely sell for less.

3. Pay rates for Tesla associates are of consequence, BUT Tesla knows who they are, what their credit scores are, how much they make and the overall turnover. I would strongly suggest that getting OUR associates driving our products is a great way to move trade in cars that would otherwise be sold for pennies on the dollar at wholesale used car auctions where they end up at places like TexasDirectAuto.com by the hundreds every year. (And where THEY sell them for a profit--mull that over for a bit please. Why is that?!?) I'm sorry if you don't have the imagination and just can't see it, but the possibilities here as tremendous. Long-term loans at low interest rates, with payroll deduction (i.e. Tesla is paid first), perhaps even combined with our upcoming insurance product, and the joy that comes from driving a Tesla experienced daily by our own associates--what's not to like? Granted, not all will be able to afford even these "good deals" but a lot would, if the program is handled well.

4. PG&E Rate increase? Bring it on! Are you familiar with the term "death spiral?" Perhaps you might be aware of a company now owned by Tesla called "SolarCity?" Are you aware of Gigafactory 2 which is to manufacture solar cells in 2H 2017 in the largest production plant in our hemisphere? Do you know that BEV's and Solar Panels go together like peanut butter and jelly: PERFECTLY? In our home powered with a 7.5kW SolarCity array we spend about $1/day, or just under $400/year to power the entire home and two Teslas. This reduces our carbon footprint which is why Tesla exists, and that is likely key to leaving a useable planet for future generations.

6. Yes, Tesla is pretty much the only game in town when it comes to BEVs. Other brands will eventually produce token products to pretend to compete with Tesla, but they can't/won't scale until it's too late for them. Each BEV sold by these brands will be sold at a loss, most likely, just for carbon credits to allow them to sell more SUV's, which defeats the purpose of BEVs.

In a nutshell, Tesla needs to sell a growing number of NEW cars to both continue to grow and thrive as a company, and to save the planet. One way to do that is by giving current owners great trade in values to get us to upgrade, and to do so often. The remarketing of the Tesla trade ins is a very seriously broken process, this leads to low trade in valuations. Much evidence of this has been provided in the previous five pages.

My hope is that by sharing my repeat experiences in trying to upgrade from our two 2015's MS's into two newer MS's, this "Broken CPO Program" problem will get some serious attention at Tesla. My hunch is that Elon's focus is on the many other things he's involved with and that he's just accepted losses on this as normal. I feel quite strongly that a "deep dive" into how the program could be revamped, by him or his direct reports, with a serious look into the issues and ideas raised here, might, perhaps, lead to the implementation of some or all of them.

There's supposedly a sign at NASA that says, "In God we Trust; everyone else bring data."

Well, the time is long overdue for some experiments to see what happens when Tesla ups trade in values on trade in Teslas, offers low-cost loans to Tesla associates to buy CPO Teslas, target markets CPO's to likely CPO Buyers, etc., etc., etc.

Thank you for writing.

 

[googlepeakoil]

One of the goals of Tesla is "moving to sustainable transport".
1. High end sports car
2. Moderately priced sedan
3. Model 3.
It seems to have replaced #2 with a version of #1. The Model S is more expensive than the Roadster ever was! The cheaper Model S's keep being killed off. The S40, and then the S60 with the base price being raised.
Also - regarding repair costs. Many complaints about $10,000 + repairs for things that would be minor on any other car. A broken steering strutt came in at $13,000. You can check out auction sites on totalled cars and see some with front end damge that wrote the car off. Still a battery, still a drive train. Still most of the car, and sometimes not even chassis damage. Hence how a few people have restored damaged cars for $10k after buying at auction for aprox $10k. One of the most sustainable cars is the least repairable (least sustainable).
Sig - a model 3 reservation from day 2.

 

[Nismode]

Didn't realize you were speaking of a clear wrap, my apologies. Thought your car had a vinyl wrap that was a different color. I'm used to those clear wraps being referred to as films, or clear bra.

Nismode, not to pick on you, but since comments similar to yours have come up on this thread before I will address them now.

This comment re: the clear wrap on our Teslas is so far from intelligent it falls in to the realm of "head exploding stupid." In fact, if there hadn't been an $11,300 discount for Tesla's "Cost to resell" (which would include the insane "Lose/Lose/Lose" removal of the wrap) in my first trade-in valuation back in December, this thread probably wouldn't exist and I'd be in a new Tesla right now . . . .

But since I hate it when otherwise intelligent people do stupid things, here we are.

I fully understand the customization issue. That can be a problem. However, this a clear wrap, something Tesla itself used to offer as a factory option. It is NOT a problem, it's an expensive asset.

Let me give you an example: Does your car have floor mats?

Why?

To protect the carpet from stains, wear, and the abuse of dirty shoes. Dirty shoes are common because we walk on the ground, and the ground frequently has dirt, mud and snow on it. Floor mats are easy and inexpensive to replace as they wear out. Carpet replacement? It's the opposite: hard and expensive.

So let's extend the metaphor to wraps as it's quite similar. Nearly identical, actually.

When someone spends thousands of dollars for a clear wrap on their car, they do so because when driving, rocks, debris and other things tend to impact a car's paint. The hood, mirrors, front bumper, A-pillar, etc., all suffer the brunt of those impacts and turn the beautiful factory paint into, well, something that doesn't look very nice. It is very expensive to replace, just like the carpet of a car. Thus, think of clear wrap, or more accurately, Paint Protection Film, as "floor mats for your paint."

I GET IT: Tesla didn't install the wrap. Fine. So what Tesla needs to do is have an intern draft up the following OFFICIAL TESLA RELEASE:

Dear CPO Buyer,

The previous owner of your new CPO Tesla Model ____, VIN __________, had your car wrapped with _________________ brand wrap at a significant cost, as indicated in the documentation he/she provided on Trade In.

We find the condition of the wrap to be ______________, based on our subjective evaluation and have left it on the car.

Obviously, we cannot warrant this wrap installation in any way, but do advise that if for some reason you do not like it, it can be removed by nearly any automobile detailing shop or auto body shop at minimal cost, usually one or two hundred dollars. There are also instructions for doing it yourself on line, if you so desire. (Personally, if it was our car we'd keep it on as it helps protect the factory paint for years to come which will enhance your trade in value when it's time for your next Tesla!)

Sincerely,


Tesla Motors

So, rather than pissing off a loyal customer by giving him a reduced trade in value because Tesla will have labor costs to remove a perfectly fine wrap, an expensive wrap that the customer paid to install, and then selling a CPO car that has no wrap, why not convert that "Lose/Lose/Lose" scenario into a Win/Win/Win instead?

Oh, and it would lead to the sale of more Teslas too . . . .

This is just another indicator of how screwed up Tesla's trade in/CPO Program is, and how it hurts the sales of new Teslas, which is key to Tesla's success and, possibly, the future of life on our one and only planet.

Why is this so hard to fathom?

 

[Pezpunk]

Pezpunk, I'd encourage you to read more slowly and thoughtfully as you've missed the point.

It's NOT the valuation per se, but the entire process by which Tesla handles trade ins. It KILLS the value of every Tesla ever made because of their inept re-marketing of these cars, which then leads to dumping the cars at wholesale auctions, all of which are "not good" for a long list of reasons already addressed.

I can't/won't re-type my previous posts, but if you'll spend a few minutes doing a "deeper dive" you're sure to be become better informed on the issue here.

Thank you.

i didn't read every one of your 46 dissertations in this thread, but i read enough to know it all stemmed from you being miffed about their trade-in offer. the rest just seems like rationalization of your indignation.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I have to vent; please forgive the length of this rant but I can't stand it when otherwise smart people do stupid things.

As TSLA stockholders and big time supporters of Tesla's goal of accelerating the transition to sustainable transport, we buy a lot of Teslas. Thus far, we've purchased five or six among the family.

But Tesla's Remarketing team just doesn't get it. They must have missed the class on "The Goal of Tesla," and why Tesla exists--the more Teslas that are sold, the faster Tesla grows, and the quicker we can begin to fix our planet's massive carbon problem. (First Rule of Holes: When in one, STOP DIGGING.)

But this week's Conference Call should give us all pause: vehicle deliveries were down a full 10% QoQ.

NOT GOOD.

I've recently been trying to do my part to help by buying another Model S. Now that ventilated seats are gone (the reason I've rationalized long and hard on for spending big money on a new MS;-), the only choices left to get those magic seats are Inventory cars. Found a couple that work for us, but it's all gone to hell, again, courtesy of Tesla Remarketing.

Are you sitting down? Tesla's Trade-In value on our wrapped, flawless, 2015 P90DL (with EVERY AVAILABLE OPTION, less 3rd Row Seats; MSRP $142,200; 8,800 miles), is an insulting $97,600. (And in late-December the Trade-In value was only $101k; that killed that deal too.)

Here are the pics from a few days ago, which also show the brand new driver's seat also installed a few days ago, courtesy of the Next Gen Seat bushing problem that made it feel like it wasn't bolted to the car anymore:

pylt has shared 49 photos with you!

How about some more salt for the wound? Right now, EV-CPO.com shows a nearly identically equipped 2015 P90DL with similar miles (7,642) for sale at $116,000:

Model S P90D 5YJSA1E40GF126555 | Tesla

**I get it: high-end cars can suffer a pretty hefty resale value hit. What I can't understand is the apparent stupidity of Tesla's Remarketing people.**

Let's recap: What is Tesla's reason for existing?

Accelerate the transition to sustainable transport.​

How does Tesla get there?

SELL A LOT OF CARS--grow like crazy, get more Teslas on the street.

The gross margin on a P100D (or even a loaded 90D) is probably pretty large, as in "deep five-figures large."

So why not offer us a more favorable trade-in value (say $115,000), and maybe even suggest that we upgrade to the P100D instead of the loaded 90D I was looking at? If they break even on my car when they "CPO" it, or even if they lose a few thousand dollars, Tesla STILL comes out way ahead because they sold another new P100D or a 90D. Cash flow is a very good thing, AND now there's another Tesla sold and out in world . . . which is why Tesla exists.

WHY IS THIS SO FRIGGIN' HARD FOR TESLA REMARKETING TO UNDERSTAND?
​

Without naming names, I have been told by several Tesla Owner Advisers that it's much easier on them if someone pulls up in an any other brand of vehicle because working with Tesla HQ on a trade-in Teslas is such a pain in the a__. I never finished my last MBA class (so I wasted a 4.0 GPA--life got in the way darn it!) so maybe I'm missing something, or is just that otherwise intelligent people can get really dumb sometimes?

For purposes of selling new Teslas, the remarketing division needs to be a loss-leader or break-even at best. Otherwise, they just get in the way of Tesla's goal.

Lastly, just to give you an example of why our first deal came apart at the end of December, take a look at their calculations for our P90DL when we had around 7,xxx miles IIRC. As an aside, the "Resale Price" shown was either an honest mistake, or a lie/pure fiction. At that time I checked EV-CPO.com and found several 2015 CPO MS P90DL's bracketing my mileage at $114,500, $115,000 and $126,000. (And how can it possibly cost them $11,300 in "Cost to Resell" a nearly new car that's in showroom condition?!?)

p.s. And get this: having a "wrapped" car like our P90D, which protects the original factory paint from road debris, is a NEGATIVE for Tesla trade in value. Tesla's crack remarketing team pulls the thousands of dollars worth of wrap off the car and throws it away. The labor to do that costs them money, hence another reduction in value. HOW CAN THEY BE SO STUPID?

I am trying to keep my head from exploding.

​

Rant over; thanks for reading.

************************************************************************

Resale Price 112,700

% Original Price 79%

(–) Tesla cost to resell (11,300)

(–) Warranty extension cost (1%/yr added) (1,500)

Trade-in Value* 99,900

% Original Configured Price 70%

* Based on normal wear and tear

Trade-in Value (including the $1,000 Ownership Loyalty Incentive) - $100,900.00

I didn't bother to read all the posts in detail in this thread, but I believe this point was not mentioned before. When you are trading in a Tesla and buying a new one, it does not generate a 100% new sale (esp. for a low mileage trade-in). Rather what it does is displace (partially or fully) another new Tesla sale, because someone that would have bought a new Tesla can likely choose to buy a low mileage CPO. Thus there is little incentive for Tesla to offer a higher trade-in price for a used Tesla.

For an ICE (or non-Tesla EV) however, the situation is different. Someone trading in a non-Tesla car means a conquest sale and won't likely be displacing new Tesla sales. Thus Tesla can value these trade-ins higher.

As @lolachampcar pointed out, the primary goal of the CPO program is largely to control the sale of used Teslas, and avoid the problem of used cars salespeople giving false information and leading to a poor ownership experience. It's not really being used as a repeat owner incentive program as you seem to want it to be.

 

[Az_Rael]

Nismode, not to pick on you, but since comments similar to yours have come up on this thread before I will address them now.

This comment re: the clear wrap on our Teslas is so far from intelligent it falls in to the realm of "head exploding stupid." In fact, if there hadn't been an $11,300 discount for Tesla's "Cost to resell" (which would include the insane "Lose/Lose/Lose" removal of the wrap) in my first trade-in valuation back in December, this thread probably wouldn't exist and I'd be in a new Tesla right now . . . .

But since I hate it when otherwise intelligent people do stupid things, here we are.

I fully understand the customization issue. That can be a problem. However, this a clear wrap, something Tesla itself used to offer as a factory option. It is NOT a problem, it's an expensive asset.

Let me give you an example: Does your car have floor mats?

Why?

To protect the carpet from stains, wear, and the abuse of dirty shoes. Dirty shoes are common because we walk on the ground, and the ground frequently has dirt, mud and snow on it. Floor mats are easy and inexpensive to replace as they wear out. Carpet replacement? It's the opposite: hard and expensive.

So let's extend the metaphor to wraps as it's quite similar. Nearly identical, actually.

When someone spends thousands of dollars for a clear wrap on their car, they do so because when driving, rocks, debris and other things tend to impact a car's paint. The hood, mirrors, front bumper, A-pillar, etc., all suffer the brunt of those impacts and turn the beautiful factory paint into, well, something that doesn't look very nice. It is very expensive to replace, just like the carpet of a car. Thus, think of clear wrap, or more accurately, Paint Protection Film, as "floor mats for your paint."

I GET IT: Tesla didn't install the wrap. Fine. So what Tesla needs to do is have an intern draft up the following OFFICIAL TESLA RELEASE:

Dear CPO Buyer,

The previous owner of your new CPO Tesla Model ____, VIN __________, had your car wrapped with _________________ brand wrap at a significant cost, as indicated in the documentation he/she provided on Trade In.

We find the condition of the wrap to be ______________, based on our subjective evaluation and have left it on the car.

Obviously, we cannot warrant this wrap installation in any way, but do advise that if for some reason you do not like it, it can be removed by nearly any automobile detailing shop or auto body shop at minimal cost, usually one or two hundred dollars. There are also instructions for doing it yourself on line, if you so desire. (Personally, if it was our car we'd keep it on as it helps protect the factory paint for years to come which will enhance your trade in value when it's time for your next Tesla!)

Sincerely,


Tesla Motors

So, rather than pissing off a loyal customer by giving him a reduced trade in value because Tesla will have labor costs to remove a perfectly fine wrap, an expensive wrap that the customer paid to install, and then selling a CPO car that has no wrap, why not convert that "Lose/Lose/Lose" scenario into a Win/Win/Win instead?

Oh, and it would lead to the sale of more Teslas too . . . .

This is just another indicator of how screwed up Tesla's trade in/CPO Program is, and how it hurts the sales of new Teslas, which is key to Tesla's success and, possibly, the future of life on our one and only planet.

Why is this so hard to fathom?

FYI: Tesla doesnt always remove clear wraps on CPOs. Mine came with what appears to be a full wrap. The only portion that was removed was the hood so they could repair a frunk dent.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Didn't realize you were speaking of a clear wrap, my apologies. Thought your car had a vinyl wrap that was a different color. I'm used to those clear wraps being referred to as films, or clear bra.

Sorry, should have been more clear in my description. Yes, it's the 100% clear PPF; good stuff as it absorbs a lot of damage while leaving the paint blemish free.

Please forgive if my tone was excessively harsh.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

i didn't read every one of your 46 dissertations in this thread, but i read enough to know it all stemmed from you being miffed about their trade-in offer. the rest just seems like rationalization of your indignation.

That's the problem with irresponsible extrapolation--you end up jumping to conclusions and posting comments based on bad assumptions.

Because you are so massively incorrect and have completely missed the much bigger picture, I'd strongly encourage you to wade deeper before jumping in and making comments.

Thanks.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

FYI: Tesla doesnt always remove clear wraps on CPOs. Mine came with what appears to be a full wrap. The only portion that was removed was the hood so they could repair a frunk dent.

Noted and interesting. Curious: How long ago was this?

I ask because this past weekend I was queried at length about the amount of PPF/clear wrap on my car, all of which was used against me in the valuation, much to the OA's chagrin.

(And, of course, it remains stupid as all get out.)

Speaking of which . . . now that we're at six pages and it's become a bit of time sink responding (and it since I doubt there's any moving the needle on this problem here), henceforth, rather than posting I think I'll write a note to Jon McNeill. Given his great track record of fixing things, it can't hurt to get some sanity added at Tesla HQ and perhaps he's the guy to do it.

Thanks to all that added insights and informative comments; much appreciated!

 

[TSLA Pilot]

As @lolachampcar pointed out, the primary goal of the CPO program is largely to control the sale of used Teslas, and avoid the problem of used cars salespeople giving false information and leading to a poor ownership experience. It's not really being used as a repeat owner incentive program as you seem to want it to be.

But that's the rub: it SHOULD be an owner incentive program. Getting Tesla owners on an iPhone-like replacement cycle would do wonders for Tesla's cash flow via additional new car sales, in addition to a host of other benefits previously noted.

Imagine how great it would be to pull off the M3 launch withOUT another stock dilution.

Plus, the current system has a remarkably large percentage of traded in Teslas sent off to used car megastores such as TexasDirectAuto.com so if their plan was to avoid that, well, they've likely failed . . . .

I cringe at how little they are likely getting for Teslas at wholesale dealer auctions. That's the true waste of funds, which should be directed toward owners looking to upgrade (not to mention the 100% waste on the sales tax credits in those states where it applies due to short-changed Tesla owners selling via private party).

There is a huge amount of low hanging fruit here; Tesla CPO could be a game changer for Tesla. Let's hope they see the world of possibilities here.

 

[Az_Rael]

Noted and interesting. Curious: How long ago was this?

I ask because this past weekend I was queried at length about the amount of PPF/clear wrap on my car, all of which was used against me in the valuation, much to the OA's chagrin.

(And, of course, it remains stupid as all get out.)

Speaking of which . . . now that we're at six pages and it's become a bit of time sink responding (and it since I doubt there's any moving the needle on this problem here), henceforth, rather than posting I think I'll write a note to Jon McNeill. Given his great track record of fixing things, it can't hurt to get some sanity added at Tesla HQ and perhaps he's the guy to do it.

Thanks to all that added insights and informative comments; much appreciated!

December 2016, so just a couple of months ago