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How much more/less would most people's dream Model 3 have cost?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Cloxxki, Aug 6, 2017.

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  1. Cloxxki

    Cloxxki Member

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    Although diehard fans will now embrace every molecule that makes up Model 3, it's not what most people wanted before details came out.
    - instrument cluster, most would still like that for their 2018 car
    - How much extra in parts does a 17" screen built into a dash pose?
    - black only, or $1K option? Surely white as base color would not cost them much extra.
    - the hood looks like a shortened Model S hood. Does that save much material? It could have been a 2-3x larger frunk
    - despite the hype, I bet most would have preferred a hatchback, even with slightly less sleek roofline.
    - no word on towing yet. What does just offering the optional tow bar cost, really?
    - screen controlled motorized AC. Circus trick, but how much would you pay for it?
    - two sceen clicks to open the glove compartment rather than a mechanical push-click. Save it!
    - imagine the base car would be 310 miles at the same margin as the 220 base car now. Only +$3K maximum, not $9K.
    - No aero wheels as standard - more cells needed for a given range, could add $1K+. And maybe that's what you pay for with the 19's actually, if it calls on reserves.
    - With full AP $8K, many will not opt for it. The hardware is still there though, offering some level of added safety. What does the camera suite cost realistically? A dollar per cam/sensor, or much, much more? How much would Tesla save in parts/labor to make a non-AP version?
    - Inboard motors didn't help the frunk and the truck didn't need that deep well so much. Battery size could have been more flexible. Cost impact? Maybe none.

    I get the impression that those things many people are less than extatic about, wouldn't have added too much cost to the car. Some things in there that seem to add cost, nobody really wanted.

    I'm a sucker for utility. So a hatchback would get me much more hyped. My back aches just looking at the boot opening.
    Having seen hundreds of Tesla vids on Youtube, I am in love with the instrument cluster on S/X. $300 for a screen? Probably less. And slightly more complex dash.
    Electric windows don't do it for me, especially in the front. Cost and weight. I like winding a window down. Most will disagree.

    What I would have dreamed (didn't expect) would basically be a Model S built cheaper. Minor adjustment to the Model 3 design would have accomplished this. The screens, some manual adjusters, larger frunk, hatchback. Would that add $2K in production cost? Probably less than that. For a much more uniformly loved car. For now, Model 3 is trying to be a car for the reality envisioned for 2030.

    Which features would you have changed leading the design team, and expect many reservation holders to agree on, and how would it impact the building cost of the car?
     
    • Disagree x 1
  2. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    Your assumption that everyone wanted what you wanted is erroneous. My list has almost no correlation with yours.

    - Sub-0,21 Cd
    - ~0,2 kWh/mi EPA energy consumption
    - Higher power DC charging
    - Glass roof standard or as isolated option, rather than bundled into a $5k package
    - Longer warranty on the drive unit
    - More clarity on how overseas deliveries will be managed
    - Pricing info on AWD
    - Better clearance
    - Better wheel streamlining standard, not less.

    The only thing on my list that corresponds with yours is more info on towing. And honestly, I think you were being absurd if you expected 310mi in the base car. That's just a stupid expectation vs. what was said about the car. And FYI, electric windows are lighter than manual.

    As for what I would have "dreamed" (but didn't in the slightest expect) was a slightly larger Aptera, ideally with a sliding-wall adjustable rear hatch height so you can choose your balance between streamlining and rear cargo/passenger space at will..

    Summary? Not everybody is you.
     
  3. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

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    That's some clever s***, man. You write some BS and prevent us from hitting "disagree" with that last sentence
     
  4. Cloxxki

    Cloxxki Member

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    I'm afraid I either was unclear, or you misread me. But I have read many a comment section, and I reflect opinions I came across.

    This thread was meant about spec/design vs cost decisions, not the dreadful lack of information. If you're only selling to employees and keep so much secret, is the car on the market already, really? What we may have here is a beta program wrapped as a product launch. It's not for sale to any non-employee for several months.

    0.21Cd was their target, they got it to 0.23. Do you think they chose this for the car to look a certain way, or be bigger, or just not try hard enough? I'd love such low consumption. But 0.21 may just never have been on the cards for it to look like a Tesla, or a mainstream car for that matter.
    Making the car narrower and lower would have helped consumption, but not Cd in inself probably.

    I agree on charge rate, but hey, they're all about cost saving. Very American, letting the customer's desires slip out of sight for cost. But, S/X need to get the charge rate upgrade first. So as long a they are about to bump those up first, I'm cool. In mph, the 3 doesn't charge slowly. Just, the base model doesn't really need/take more than ChaDeMo speed.

    A longer range as base car is just about a cost/value exersize. It's not an option few people will get, most will get it. They're just making 200-300% profit on the extra cells tossed in. People who are cool to drive short range EV to save the planet, already have one or multiple. Tesla is not starting to reach the more demaning car people. They want performance and range. Tesla just sells to those who'll pay full price first. You see how the 60->75 got heavily discounted eventually.
     
  5. Cloxxki

    Cloxxki Member

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    Cheers, bit I didn't mean it that way of course. I just state that I am likely a rare case of someone being OK with manual windows. I would not expect a modern car to come that way, as it's just me. I won't go to a tuner to make them convert that part. Just exposing my own oddities, I'm not everyone.
     
  6. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    As for your specific list, things I didn't cover above:

    - instrument cluster, most would still like that for their 2018 car - No thanks. Why should I want that? I hate design clutter, and would much rather have more visibility than things that I have no need to look at. Aptera had an interesting approach of putting rear and side cameras where the instrument cluster normally goes, which I liked, but they couldn't pass the legal barriers.

    - How much extra in parts does a 17" screen built into a dash pose?
    - Huh? Most reviewers are complaining that it's too big. I personally like the size. The thing is right next to you, how much view do you want to block?

    - black only, or $1K option? Surely white as base color would not cost them much extra. - I really couldn't give a rat's arse about paint colours.

    - the hood looks like a shortened Model S hood. Does that save much material? It could have been a 2-3x larger frunk
    - Dear god no. Ugh, I am so glad that you're not in charge of design. You want to ruin both drag and visibility for more frunk space? Look, if you want more storage, it should go in the back.

    - despite the hype, I bet most would have preferred a hatchback, even with slightly less sleek roofline. - It's not about roofline, it's about mass (meaning range and performance). Aptera faced the same problem back in the day. They had to have their hatch open to the side to avoid it becoming too heavy, which is rather inconvenient (having to pick one side or the other, risk of being caught by wind, etc). Tesla's solution is pretty elegant, having it be a trunk lid but with the arms attached higher up so that it opens much higher. I smiled when I saw that.

    - screen controlled motorized AC. Circus trick, but how much would you pay for it? - Actually, I agree on this one, but don't care.

    - two sceen clicks to open the glove compartment rather than a mechanical push-click. Save it! Same as above. I could care less.

    - With full AP $8K, many will not opt for it. - And? That's the definition of an option. Or are you saying that they don't know how to price something for optimal revenue? For the record, I have no interest in AP, so could care less.

    - The hardware is still there though, offering some level of added safety. What does the camera suite cost realistically? A dollar per cam/sensor, or much, much more? How much would Tesla save in parts/labor to make a non-AP version? - You mean, you want to have their software stack have to be validated for two entirely different sets of sensors? To make a non-upgradeable version, when X percentage of users (or second owners) will eventually add on a multi-thousand-dollar option? Again, I know you want to play amateur bean counter here, but Tesla knows what they're paying for.

    - Inboard motors didn't help the frunk and the truck didn't need that deep well so much. Battery size could have been more flexible. Cost impact? Maybe none. - I can't even make out what you're trying to say here. There is no motor up front. All motors are going to be "inboard". Battery size is flexible. And cost impact for what?

    Again, your expectations on what things cost and weigh does not mean that's what they actually cost and weigh. Like mentioned previously, one may naively assume that manual windows are cheaper and lighter than electric windows. Electric windows are lighter than manual nowadays, and they're similar in price - and since most buyers prefer them, it's not cost justifiable for most manufacturers to create two versions. A relatively small number of models still offer them, but they often are used an excuse to try to convince people to add more expensive options packages onto the vehicle.
     
  7. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    The launch schedule was stated ages ago. Why are you making a big deal of it now? And what exactly would you prefer Tesla do? Horde vehicles until they can release ten thousand at once? Production scales up slowly. Tesla has always handled deliveries this way - get them to owners as soon as possible, get people driving them in their daily lives, so if any issues turn up they can be fixed before there's large numbers on the road. They did it with the Roadster, with the S, with the X, and now with the 3.

    It's as high as it is because they're catering to people like you who complain about the wheels looking too aero and the hood being too short and the like. It's a balance between "conventional styling" (which I hate) and aerodynamics (which I love).

    That's not it at all. Not everybody needs that range. Not everybody cares about it. And batteries do cost a lot of money. I don't want them charging me a ton more for a vehicle to get range that I'm not going to use. My speed limit here is 90kph (56mph), so the vehicle is going to go much further than its EPA range anyway.
     
  8. Tiger

    Tiger Member

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    I would like to hear from a) people who actually drove the car at least 24h themselves or b) people who own the car. The rest of us should just shut up and wait for our turn ;)
     
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