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How much to offer for this 85D?

PhilDavid

Active Member
May 22, 2018
2,552
2,343
Philadelphia
I've been watching CPO for a blue, AP1, >70/D, pano, in the low $50k or new fascia for around $60k but availability is limited so I'm looking into private party cars. I deposited for a CPO matching the criteria but ended up rejecting because it had a body long swipe like it had scraped along a safety divider--not sure why they even listed it on CPO. The plan is buy and drive for a long time until maintenance is cost prohibited to own.

Your input is appreciated to make sure I get what I pay for. If I buy from private party, is it possible to pay for Tesla service center to inspect it before purchase? For ICE car, I'd bring to a mechanic but I'm not sure they know what to look for in a Tesla. I'll check carfax, title, service record, and general walk around for ding/scratch/odd behavior but wouldn't know if major components need repair.

You can get Tesla to do a pre purchase inspection/check up before purchase. If a service is due, might as well have them do the service at the same time as well. If your budget is over 50K, don't bother with a 70 battery pack. Look for a deal on an 85D.

What do you feel about this 2015 85D for $53K?

Model S / 2015 / Blue - 18aac | Only Used Tesla

Here are some blue 85D CPOs for your consideration.

$53K
Inventory Search | Tesla

$60K
Inventory Search | Tesla

Some of the CPO cars are going down in price by hundreds each day. If you don't like the price, just wait. Also you are doing the right thing in rejecting damaged CPO cars. You are paying too much to accept a damaged car.
 

imafan

Member
Jul 25, 2018
18
4
Bay Area
You can get Tesla to do a pre purchase inspection/check up before purchase. If a service is due, might as well have them do the service at the same time as well. If your budget is over 50K, don't bother with a 70 battery pack. Look for a deal on an 85D.

What do you feel about this 2015 85D for $53K?

Model S / 2015 / Blue - 18aac | Only Used Tesla

Here are some blue 85D CPOs for your consideration.

$53K
Inventory Search | Tesla
Good to know about the check up. Thanks! The 85D I'm inquiring has better spec and local. I'd get the $53k CPO if it's local as shipping kinda eat up the saving.

Is Dual motor a requirement??

If not it really opens up your options
Inventory Search | Tesla
I believe this one is near you also, so easier to look at.

Also these CPO prices make me wish I had waited a few months!
Thanks, I'm requesting for photo on that 85. D is optional, Spouse would like pano roof but if the price is right, we can go without. I have same feeling about waiting a few months for more 2016.5 new fascia to come to CPO. I don't need a Tesla ASAP but the urge is becoming strong :D.

Assuming I could negotiate the best private party price for these three car I'm considering, from a best value/upgrade perspective, which would you rather get? Usage: family car, buy to own for 10+yr.
1. $X, 2015, 85D, 60k miles, AP1, UHFS, Subweather, unlimited supercharge, No warranty
2. $X + 8,000, 2016.5 new fascia, 75, 30k miles, AP1, No UHFS/subwthr, unlimited supercharge, remaining warranty
3. $X + 14,000, 2017 , 75D, 15k miles, EAP, UHFS, Subweather, 400kwh/yr supercharge, remaining warranty

Assuming all else the same(excellent condition, etc)
 

P85_DA

Active Member
Supporting Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,266
3,390
CA
You didn’t specify how much range is important for u ...but I would go with #3 as has AP2x..and has more potential for improvements down the line ..AP1 while good is pretty much maxed on capabilities ..the 75D actually has decent range
 

imafan

Member
Jul 25, 2018
18
4
Bay Area
You didn’t specify how much range is important for u ...but I would go with #3 as has AP2x..and has more potential for improvements down the line ..AP1 while good is pretty much maxed on capabilities ..the 75D actually has decent range
Longest range isn't critical but prefer higher to charge less often. 250+ would cover 99.9% usage.
 
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PhilDavid

Active Member
May 22, 2018
2,552
2,343
Philadelphia
Longest range isn't critical but prefer higher to charge less often. 250+ would cover 99.9% usage.

I can;t overstate this enough. Get the longest range you can afford and your price point allows you to buy a 85D and that's really all I would look for if I were you. We've had times where having an extra 20 miles of range made all the difference and plus you will lose range in the colder months.

You don't want buy the car and wish you bought the bigger battery...

I personally would not buy any one of the 3 cars on your list. I would buy one of the following

  • Wait to find a CPO 85D in the low 50s with a 4 year warranty and in excellent condition. If you do this, be ready to reject any damaged cars they present to you.
  • Wait to find a private party 85D and but it with the ESA warranty so your car is covered for the remainder of th efactory warranty PLUS an additional 4 years. If you can buy an 85D under the factory warranty for around $50K, you can then pay extra for the ESA warranty and then you will have a car with about 5-6 years of warranty coverage.
 

Target

Member
Supporting Member
Apr 9, 2018
564
381
Chicago Land
To properly look at a deal and consider warranty options I would have to understand the amount of miles per year you anticipate putting on the car. If you are a 20K per year family, then I weigh the options differently compared to a 10k a year family. If you drive 20k miles a year then a two year CPO is almost as good as a four year CPO as you will out run the mileage is almost the same time. I bought a higher mileage car that was previously bought CPO as I don't commute very far (by car).

The other thing to consider is the cost of repairs. When are car repairs more expensive than you want to hold onto? $5k a year? $10K a year? maybe $2k? Depending on where you fall on that scale will drive how much a warranty is worth. At this time there are practically no aftermarket or overhauled parts on the market, and very few mechanics who will have the knowledge or desire to tangle with one of these, which means you are paying the Tesla shop rate and Tesla parts rate. The center screen costs around $3500 to repair, and there is no good option to do that outside of Tesla. Suspension parts wear faster than most cars I have ever had. In the short time I have owned my car (3 months) it has already gotten an upper control arm on the front right due to ball joint wear, left sway bar linkage, and the splines on the axles / hubs serviced due to noise. This was done under warranty, and they didn't disclose the cost of those services, but the labor was likely over 600, and probably closer to a 1000. I would consider those repairs routine in these cars, as in every 5 years / 75K you will be replacing both upper control arms/ball joints, anti sway bar ends, and possibly lower ball joints. Expect to do half shafts at least once every six years. Those half shafts are over 600 each. With that in mind I would allocate $2k per year minimum to repair stuff on a Tesla with no bumper to bumper coverage. The longer it has been out of warranty the more you have to budget to repair stuff that the last owner ignored. That doesn't count tires, brake pads/rotors or routine maintenance. Tesla charges $1000 a year for their ESA (I could be incorrect on that number, I didn't check) assuming 12.5K miles per year, and they have a copay for each repair along with that, so they expect it to cost THEM around a $1000 a year, and they aren't paying as much for parts or labor as we have to.

Beyond those repairs on my car the radiator fan was squealing on spin down so it is likely to be going back for that some time soon. It also tells me the frunk is open the day after I take it to a pressure washer, or drive it in the rain. They couldn't resolve that problem last trip, but I figure they will get it next time. Just look at the VIN of each car you look at and realize, this is the XXXXX car Tesla ever built. In my case they built 32,000 cars before mine. They are always getting better, but Rome wasn't built in a day. Also I would say these cars need repaired similar to a comparable high end sports luxury sedan, but for people who haven't experienced the pain in the wallet of that, it can be a bit shocking.

Me personally, I have 12 more months on the CPO warranty, and I am already considering selling/trading my current car before that 12 months expires, at which point I will aim for a 4yr CPO warranty car. Where I live I get a sales tax credit if I trade it in, so assuming I trade it, I will not have to pay full sales tax again, but that requires a good trade allowance. I don't know what the next year will bring, but I never say to myself, I am going to own this car ten years, because life happens. The best you can do is what you are doing now, buy a used car at a good price to value ratio so that if it gets totaled or traded you don't end up underwater.

With the CPO prices presently being competitive, I would be chasing those with a 4 year warranty. Me personally I would get the pictures, if good, then fly out, and drive it home (assuming free super charging). Save the cost of shipping, just take delivery where it is. I like a good road trip though.
 

Target

Member
Supporting Member
Apr 9, 2018
564
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Chicago Land
On that specific car, the stand out thing to me was the steering wheel. I don't know how easy it would be to clean that up and make it look nice again, and since you actually touch it it would be annoying if it was not nice.

The scratches and seat stain look to me like a detailing ($1000 detailing) would clean that up and make it look nice. Definitely would like to hear other opinions on the cost of that work, I don't spend much time at detailing shops. Curb rash was pretty minor, maybe put those wheels on the passenger side until everyone is comfortable parking the thing, then fix them after that. Refurbished wheels like that are $129 at Rock Auto, so if nothing else make an Ugly one a spare. I would generally agree though, that level of damage matches my expectation for a daily driven car with 50K on it, except for the steering wheel, not sure why it looks like that.

As far as value goes I am surprised by where this falls, I like 2014 Tesla Motors Model S Sedan 4D 85 kWh Prices, Values & Model S Sedan 4D 85 kWh Price Specs and I always try to buy cars in the "trade in" range, but here your into retail +CPO territory, so this is at FULL retail. A four year warranty helps with the math on that, but yes, it is up to where I would be concerned if I got hit as soon as I drove off the lot that I wouldn't get my money back.

I realize I suggested it, but I wasn't looking THAT hard at it. It is one of the least expensive cars on their site right now with AP1 and a 4 year warranty, and from that simple view of the world it is a deal. Looking at it from the outside though it is retail +CPO pricing (better than a few months ago when retail was a dream).
 

imafan

Member
Jul 25, 2018
18
4
Bay Area
Thank you for your perspective Target. We are probably underestimating the value of CPO warranty on luxury cars. We drive a 99 honda [email protected] miles bought at 100k miles and 2013 honda odyssey with little maintenance beside regular oil change so likely heavily biased. The S would be a splurge for driving the 99 so long ;). It'll be a <10,000 miles/yr car. The other option is waiting for a base M3 for commute(~40miles) and use the odyssey for long family hauls(~1trip/yr) and save some $$$. Looks like best option is to wait for 85/D with warranty in low 50s
 
Last edited:

EarlyM3Owner

Member
Supporting Member
Feb 28, 2018
31
24
Chicago
Didn't go with the 53k CPO as my SO is very particular about interior and exterior color as it'll be our most expensive car yet. It was snatched up quick after posting tho.
Another question, does anyone know if Tesla buyback a car at trade-in price if one doesn't buy another Tesla?

They have gone back and forth with this policy. At times it was yes, and at times it was no. I am not sure where they stand on it right this second. If you ask an owner advisor - they will consult their Used car team to see if that is possible or not.

If you are looking for a value - I can help with that. Fill this form out and I can get you a value
JotForm
 

Target

Member
Supporting Member
Apr 9, 2018
564
381
Chicago Land
While my previous car wasn't as old as yours it was a 2006 that I bought with 80K on it for $8K 5+ years ago. While it took some work to keep it driving nicely I am a pretty good mechanic so I did most of my own work on it. The cost of parts for that car is fairly low, Half shafts cost around $100 and Rock Auto stocks almost every part. If I don't feel like doing the work, there are local guys around that work on cars like my old one routinely so $50 to $75 an hour. So I get your perspective, normal stuff goes, it isn't a big deal for me to fix most things for a $100. Tires on the old car are cheap too, even nice ones cost $150, with the Model S you start at $200 and go up from there.

Possibly like yourself, I watched the launch of the Model S and saw it was good. I drove a friend's S in 2012 and it felt great. Then I just watched and waited for the right combination of things to fall into place. Used models to come down in price, but not the first year, because I never buy the first year of anything. In that same vein I am a bit suspicious of the 2014 D models as those changes were new at that time. I haven't heard of big issues with the 2014 D models, but just my nature drew me to the tried and true option that made sense for me. I got lucky and a forum member was selling a 2014 P85+ for a pretty low price on ebay so I was able to work a deal out and get it on a very favorable price to value ratio, deep into Trade In territory. He bought it CPO, so the remainder of his warranty transferred to me. It had 73K on it when I bought it, and 15 months remaining and up to 100K miles on the CPO warranty. That gives me a wide amount of flexibility of how many miles to put on it in 15 months, with the only real concern trade in value if I decide to trade it next year.

Since I have had it I have used it for several long trips, and this is where it really shines, the route planning / charge planning is fantastic, and with supercharging being free on these older cars, I don't have to worry about what it is costing me. That said, I have a pair of 80 amp charging stations (and more) in my garage, so I charge at home unless I am on a trip. My miles are primarily long trip based where super charging is a factor, and really all I want is a car that can charge fast at the charging stations, because the ultimate range doesn't matter that much, From a 75 to a 100 wouldn't make any difference on my longer trips, I am stopping to charge on any of them. Where the larger battery matters is charging speed, and range for when a charging station is down. Bigger batteries charge faster, and you don't have to go as high of a % to reach the next station, so they charge even faster as you don't have to go as high. For that reason I would love to have a 100, but that won't be for a few years yet. I am patient though.
 

imafan

Member
Jul 25, 2018
18
4
Bay Area
As far as value goes I am surprised by where this falls, I like 2014 Tesla Motors Model S Sedan 4D 85 kWh Prices, Values & Model S Sedan 4D 85 kWh Price Specs and I always try to buy cars in the "trade in" range, but here your into retail +CPO territory, so this is at FULL retail. A four year warranty helps with the math on that, but yes, it is up to where I would be concerned if I got hit as soon as I drove off the lot that I wouldn't get my money back.
Can you please clarify what does clean retail mean? is it what Tesla would be selling it back? so car value = clean retail value - CPO warranty value($4k)?
 

Target

Member
Supporting Member
Apr 9, 2018
564
381
Chicago Land
Clean retail is if you were buying a Tesla at a normal car dealer, like a BMW or Mercedes Dealer. Those dealers know to do the basic stuff like clean the stains off the seats and make the scratches less obvious. They might even touch up the wheels. If the car isn't a fit for their lot, then they sell it at auction or sell it to a local "used car only" dealership. The BMW /Mercedes dealer wants all their cars to look pristine so they can maintain their squeaky clean reputation. So if you walk into a BMW Dealership and walk up to a used 2014 7 series sedan you wouldn't expect to be able to see curb rash while standing up, if you get down on the ground you might see it. You wouldn't expect to see any dents, as they would have had their paintless dent guy work the car over. They would do the bare minimum to make the paint look good from a few feet away. Brake pads, oil, and tires are reasonably fresh. This would be clean retail. You buy it and drive away thinking, "this car needs nothing".
They don't normally do the major service though like an annual, timing belt or whatever, unless it can be covered by warranty. Those sorts of cars go to some lower end dealer unless there is a huge up side for them.


When I was saying Clean Retail + CPO I was saying Clean Retail = 45K and then +3K for it being a CPO, to get to a asking price of $48K. Some valuation tools will show a CPO adjustment, some don't, but generally $2k to $3k is how they value it. As the end users CPO warranties could be worth more or less, that is about your appetite for risk and so forth.

Salvage/Rebuilt titled cars can be reinspected by Tesla, but very few are. It isn't a good idea without the reinspection unless you are a VERY serious do it yourselfer plus other risks, if you find yourself thinking about that reconsider a few times :)

On your quest to find the perfect car, look out for used cars that are one owner and under 4 years 50K. That owner can buy the ESA package and then transfer it to you. It is possible you could buy the car and then buy the ESA after the fact, but check around before counting on that. The ESA isn't as good as a warranty like the CPO or new car, but it covers you from some of the big ticket items. I would encourage you to review the ESA agreement before you actually go down this path to see what is and is not covered. The ESA can be purchased up to 1 month and 1000 miles after the warranty expires. If it is past that, then there are no further options I know of. If the car is not one owner it still might be possible, however Tesla has limitations on the car ever being in a non Tesla Dealer possession. There are good threads on ESA, I am just trying to cover the highlights here.

Also I like cargurus as they allow you to search specific versions like 85D where most used car sites are useless at that. As you are on a quest you will likely have to use all the tools, but on a positive note you live in a place with MANY Tesla's. I came fairly close to buying cheaper white one private party out there and driving it home. I had a route picked out and a plan to sleep on various couches to keep costs down even.
 

Target

Member
Supporting Member
Apr 9, 2018
564
381
Chicago Land
So if you run this car
Tesla
through nadaguides you will see a CPO option adding 2500 to the retail price.
In this case Clean Retail shows as 54850 and then add 2500 for CPO. I prefer to be down in the trade in range, which is a bit hard for Tesla's.

Then we have this 70D
Tesla
At least this is a couple of thousand below clean retail, and even farther below Clean Retail+ CPO. Still not down to where I get interested, but not bad.

I know you mentioned you SO liked specific colors and those interiors probably aren't that color, just for demonstration purposes.

This is a subset of what I look at when I shop for cars. Because I am aiming for a mechanically sound car at a value, I accept a wide range of other options like any color goes, and any location. I have colors I prefer, but if I think it's an ugly color but otherwise an amazing deal, I would probably buy it. When you limit your field down to great value, specific color combinations, and specific battery / drive train, you are creating a quest for yourself and you will need to have amazing patience to find what you are looking for, at what I would consider to be a good price to value ratio. With your constraints you might be wise to loosen up a bit on price unless you are excited about spending the next 6 months car shopping. I do sometimes spend six months car shopping, I could argue I was Tesla shopping for 3 years, if not longer.


I prioritize value because it allows me flexibility down the road when I go to sell it, or if it gets wrecked, or stolen. If you need a loan, the bank will be happier if you are buying it at a good price to value as their risk is lower that way. Most people don't shop for cars like I do, don't think you have to shop for a car like any of us, and feel free to ignore advice we give you. Do your own research, and come to your own conclusions about warranties ESA and the like. Even cross shop other brands like the Chevy Bolt (mind the long range charging options though). For commute only consider a used Leaf, or used VW E Gulf, or potentially a used Volt. We are far from the days when you have one or two choices and they all cost 30+. Tesla's are amazing and I love my S but there is no way I am saving money by driving it, the acquisition cost is WAY too high. Free super charging helps a little bit, but a used S will never beat a used Volt on total cost of ownership per mile for my usage. (unless gas prices get REALLY stupid but even then the Volt still may win)

Good luck and may you find what you are looking for
 
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deaddog

Member
Oct 29, 2017
192
67
Chicago
Target's post(s) on this issue are spot-on. His strategy is one I've used for years (although I won't buy a white car!) when buying/selling dozens of both ICE and Electric cars. I'll also note (and he may have already) that in many states you can save significantly on taxes via private party purchase - and if you only hold the car for a couple of years, that can be a significant advantage.

I'll also second his recommendation to check out a Volt - my 2013 is still in our family and going very strong. To be clear, its not even close to being in the same league as my S90D - but at 20 cents on the dollar vs the Tesla, its been a great car.
 

imafan

Member
Jul 25, 2018
18
4
Bay Area
Just want to have closure to my quest for a Tesla. We ended up with a blue 85D CPO 37k miles in really good condition&features at a good price. Had a once over detailing and she's gleaming. We are loving it so far!
 

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