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Lol, that's gonna be me charging when I'm just a few miles from my house. I'm fairly sure the existing S/X users now are only a few miles from their houses too. I think it's like the Fremont supercharger. It's just right smack in the middle of a lot of people. I mean, technically, it is a convenient stop for people traveling on road trips to Tahoe and beyond, but it also happens to be in the parking lot of the best mall (by far) in about a 100+ mile radius. With the local electricity rates the rate they are, Tesla's $0.20/kWh is worth it.
Dogwhistle
Member
I really hope they NEVER offer this in ANY form for the Model 3. The Supercharger experience will deteriorate rapidly if all the piggies head to the free (or pre-paid) trough. Pay-as-you-go is the only way this will ever work with millions on the road soon, owners need to be incentivized to only use the SCs on a must-need basis. I also hope they end the practice with the Model S and X soon too, although the impact will be less as they will remain niche cars.
20 ct per kWh is super reasonable. You can't compare it to home. The station itself also needs to be payed for an maintained. Also at home you won't get 120 kW DC charging for that rate. Superchargers are worth much more than the price of electricity.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Different people have widely varying use cases. Some people SuperCharge all the time so it would be worth a lot. Others much less.
Probably best to charge by the use (per kWh) or maybe a monthly subscription that you can activate when needed (such as a summer vacation).
It is always better to pay as you go. It benefits both sides. Tesla is free to raise prices down the road should cost go up and the user dont have to pay all at once upfront.
In my previous post the cost for unlimited free supercharging should be around $10K USD over 15 years ownership. I doubt anyone buying a model 3 is willing to cough that much up front to get free unlimited charging for their model 3.
In my previous post the cost for unlimited free supercharging should be around $10K USD over 15 years ownership. I doubt anyone buying a model 3 is willing to cough that much up front to get free unlimited charging for their model 3.
Yup. Not making a judgment call for someone else, just explaining the reasoning for myself.
Lasttoy
Active Member
Not a fair question. SC is not added into car price of a 3. I consider it included in my S price.
At this stage it would not be worth paying up front for something I wouldn't envisage using often.
Around town:
1) Mostly would be charging at home or work for convenience, and both my regular supermarkets have multiple free 50kW chargers in the carpark, so can top up with buying groceries.
2) I'd have to drive (~15min) past at least 3 sites that have free (for now) 50kW DC public chargers to get to the nearest planned supercharger.
Out of town trips:
Trade off is between speed, cost and route choice.
Supercharger sites have more bays, so less chance of having to queue for a sport, and faster charging once connected. Non telsa fast chargers (mostly 50kW) are in a lot more places, some are free to use, but some chances of having to wait for a leaf or i3 etc. to be finished to get to the charger. I wouldn't want to be in the position of deciding between taking the boring route I've already done 100s of times that has superchargers that I'd already paid to access or taking an alternative route with access to public chargers that would be pay per use. The cheapskate in me would want to go the boring way..
No idea how fast the charging infrastructure will develop for Tesla or the public chargers, and when the electricity companies will make their chargers pay per use instead of free, so I wouldn't do anything to lock my self in to the superchargers
Around town:
1) Mostly would be charging at home or work for convenience, and both my regular supermarkets have multiple free 50kW chargers in the carpark, so can top up with buying groceries.
2) I'd have to drive (~15min) past at least 3 sites that have free (for now) 50kW DC public chargers to get to the nearest planned supercharger.
Out of town trips:
Trade off is between speed, cost and route choice.
Supercharger sites have more bays, so less chance of having to queue for a sport, and faster charging once connected. Non telsa fast chargers (mostly 50kW) are in a lot more places, some are free to use, but some chances of having to wait for a leaf or i3 etc. to be finished to get to the charger. I wouldn't want to be in the position of deciding between taking the boring route I've already done 100s of times that has superchargers that I'd already paid to access or taking an alternative route with access to public chargers that would be pay per use. The cheapskate in me would want to go the boring way..
No idea how fast the charging infrastructure will develop for Tesla or the public chargers, and when the electricity companies will make their chargers pay per use instead of free, so I wouldn't do anything to lock my self in to the superchargers
I agree. Elon has said before, the cost of supercharging is built into the cost of the S and X. If it remaining free with referral as they do now it should be fine. If it were offered for a mass production car like the 3, superchargers would become unusable
I think if the property management company that leases and maintains the space wants to make it free for all Tesla’s, then it should be an option. Chargepoint makes this an option for property owners and it’s fantastic! It gives drivers an incentive to stop in and do stuff/spend money, and if we can fully supercharge (even at only 70kW) and be gone within an hour or two, it’d be even better. I sure would go out for dinner and movies more often if I could supercharge there!
The property owner is picking up the electricity for Chargepoint (and Tesla destination chargers). I'm not sure about the financial deal between landowner and Tesla for superchargers.
The real problem though is the cost of electricity at a Chargepoint would be about $1.20 per hour. Tesla could be $10 for an hour. Have to charge a lot for that movie to make up $10 customer acquisition cost (assuming a S100D, adding ~80% charge, at national average price of $0.12 kWh).
Tiered Rate Plan (E1)
That has their rate charts on it. Realistically, most people pay on the average of about $0.26-28. In the summers, that $0.40 often kicks in (I'm currently on that plan).
DW and I work from home most of the time and we have kids so it's hard to push use to off peak only. Their "baseline" rate is very, very low. So, for basically everyone without a LOT of solar in my area (and even those with solar if they use their car a lot), charging your car at the SuperCharger is a better deal. Particularly since they have two in pretty convenient places where you're often in that area anyways.
sakimano
Active Member
as a Model S owner, I wouldn't have bought the car without the supercharger network. Supercharging makes the car into basically a normal car that can go just about anywhere you'd want it to. So to answer the question qualitatively, it's of paramount importance. If you're heading into a super sparsely populated area with no SC sure that doesn't work, but 99.9% of where I actually want to go has superchargers that will get me there.
As for how much I'd pay for supercharging for life, I dont know...i reckon tesla will be fair with the charge and I'd be just as happy to pay for what I used. You have to realise that electricity is pretty cheap. People think of 'free fuel!' and get excited before they own an EV but once you own one you realise it's pretty cheap and is NOTHING like your fuel costs on your internal combustion car.
I've put about 17,000 kms (10,600 miles) on my Model S and if I were paying 12 cents per kwh for all of it, I'd have paid about $400 for all of that driving. If that were gas at 500kms/tank, I'd have paid $3000 USD for that based on our fuel rates up here in Canada, or about $2500 down in the US wwith your cheaper fuel prices. So you can see electricity is almost free relatively.
I probably used about 1000 kwh for about 5,000 kms of driving at superchargers (is there some way to look that up?)...a lot but not really that much if I had to pay 12 cents per kwh. That's $120 dollars. If I have to pay that every year on the model 3 I've ordered, I'm fine with it.
As for how much I'd pay for supercharging for life, I dont know...i reckon tesla will be fair with the charge and I'd be just as happy to pay for what I used. You have to realise that electricity is pretty cheap. People think of 'free fuel!' and get excited before they own an EV but once you own one you realise it's pretty cheap and is NOTHING like your fuel costs on your internal combustion car.
I've put about 17,000 kms (10,600 miles) on my Model S and if I were paying 12 cents per kwh for all of it, I'd have paid about $400 for all of that driving. If that were gas at 500kms/tank, I'd have paid $3000 USD for that based on our fuel rates up here in Canada, or about $2500 down in the US wwith your cheaper fuel prices. So you can see electricity is almost free relatively.
I probably used about 1000 kwh for about 5,000 kms of driving at superchargers (is there some way to look that up?)...a lot but not really that much if I had to pay 12 cents per kwh. That's $120 dollars. If I have to pay that every year on the model 3 I've ordered, I'm fine with it.
sakimano
Active Member
he might be a lost Model S owner. He often stumbles into the Canada forum too (from Florida) so that could be it.
NiallDarwin
Right to Repair!
Interesting question and answers.
I've got a poll running asking what the value of being able to Supercharge at all. I'm being denied these things on my repaired Model S despite Tesla promising them. Let me know what value you put on the Supercharge feature:
What's Supercharging and Support Worth?
I've got a poll running asking what the value of being able to Supercharge at all. I'm being denied these things on my repaired Model S despite Tesla promising them. Let me know what value you put on the Supercharge feature:
What's Supercharging and Support Worth?
ℬête Noire
Active Member
It's his location as the important factor, I'd wager. Brea, Orange County = Southern California, some of the higher electricity rates in the US. Also a Model S.
Where as I'd need to rack up roughly 200,000 miles via Supercharger to hit a number like that on a Model 3...unless I was driving in a fashion that was eating far more $ in tires.
clostridium
Member
The value of unlimited supercharging that you pay a flat fee (whether hidden like for my S75D or separated out to pay upfront) or subscription fee for obviously depends on your specific utilization rate of supercharging and what electricity costs in your area.
When I look at my upcoming transition from my S75D to a 3P having "free" supercharging for my use case turns out to not be that big of a deal. The added efficiency of the 3 means I'd have used about 1200 kWh less home charging over the past 18 months. Meanwhile I used about 440 kWh of supercharging on various road trips in my state over that time period. Even with my very cheap electricity rates (0.058/kWh 24/7/365) and Tesla's much higher rate for supercharging in Ohio the difference is literally about 15 dollars over that time.
Of course who knows what the baked in supercharging fee was in my S75D purchase. I get it that it feels great to charge up and not see any money moving from your wallet. It's a powerful psychological effect. The reality is that money is flowing from your wallet just about all the time except for during that "free" supercharging session.
When I look at my upcoming transition from my S75D to a 3P having "free" supercharging for my use case turns out to not be that big of a deal. The added efficiency of the 3 means I'd have used about 1200 kWh less home charging over the past 18 months. Meanwhile I used about 440 kWh of supercharging on various road trips in my state over that time period. Even with my very cheap electricity rates (0.058/kWh 24/7/365) and Tesla's much higher rate for supercharging in Ohio the difference is literally about 15 dollars over that time.
Of course who knows what the baked in supercharging fee was in my S75D purchase. I get it that it feels great to charge up and not see any money moving from your wallet. It's a powerful psychological effect. The reality is that money is flowing from your wallet just about all the time except for during that "free" supercharging session.
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