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how my battary get 0 km after 14 days of service

oliver4ever

Member
Jun 14, 2019
123
5
ukraine
i keep my car for 14 days in service for pain front bamber was 250 km charger today i came to there was 0 km ?
how i lost all the charger ? from AC or they forget the car on ? or what is the problem ?
 

ajdelange

Active Member
Dec 10, 2018
1,077
638
Virginia/Quebec
We can't know of course but we can observe that if you lost 100000 watts hours in 14 days the average rate of drain was 100000/(24*14) = 297.619 Watts. The phantom drain (power required to keep computers, modems, etc. alive) is at least that much so what happened isn't really surprising at all. When the car isn't being used for long periods it still needs to be plugged in.
 

jmaddr

Active Member
Mar 29, 2019
1,021
1,036
Florida
155 miles in 14 days! No way that is normal. Even if sentry and overheat are on, they turn off at 20% and the thing drops into deep sleep. I’ve noticed deep sleep is like 1-3 miles per day. Something happened to drop like that. Call Tesla and they can look and tell you what percentage your car was at and how much it lost per day.
 

ajdelange

Active Member
Dec 10, 2018
1,077
638
Virginia/Quebec
If you go into detail 155 miles is 47 kWh worth so over 14 days the drain averaged 140 Watts. The self discharge of the battery alone is 41 watts. For reference my X's phantom drain rate is 97 Watts which is better than what 58% of X drivers experience. Drains of twice that are not uncommon. So yes, what he saw is clearly within the bounds of normal and the message is that he needs to be sure it is being maintenance charges when not in use, at the shop etc.

He's in the Ukraine. There is no SC for him to call. Nor is there any need. If he had 155 miles at the start that's just over half full and so he lost about 50/14 = 2.8 % per day.
 

jmaddr

Active Member
Mar 29, 2019
1,021
1,036
Florida
I'm not following you @ajdelange and can only disagree based on my experience. What is interesting is you say your "self discharge of the battery alone is 41 watts. For reference my X's phantom drain rate is 97 Watts". This is interesting information. Are you getting this from TeslaFi or Stats? I have Stats and it only lists phantom drain in mi/hr. It would be interesting to have that same information for my car.

What I do have is for the Model 3. Here is the Tesla Stats histogram of phantom drain. Notice that the top of the bell curve is about .25 mi/hr. At 0.25 mi/hr phantom drain, 14 days is 336 hours or 84 miles, or just 1/2 his range in 14 days. The X is likely different but I don't see it dramatically different.

Admittedly, if we go all the way to the right into the 1+ mi/hr range, he could deplete his battery in 14 days but this is an outlier worth investigating and not normal by any means. Further, and I don't know the sample size...but a portion of these individuals will have sentry mode and cabin protection turned on and I'm betting these are the ones on the extreme right. These two features are known to turn off at 20% which would mean he would return to normal. I still think losing half your battery in 14 days is high.

upload_2019-10-15_10-35-53.png
 

ajdelange

Active Member
Dec 10, 2018
1,077
638
Virginia/Quebec
Where I got the numbers:

The Tesla manual says that the battery self discharges at about 1% per day. Assuming the battery to have a capacity of 100000 Wh the daily rate would be 0.01*100000/24 = 41.667 Watts.

As for my car's phantom drain: I use that same curve from Stats. My particular rate is 0.29 mi/hr. Let's call it 0.3. I use about 300 wH to go a mile. 0.3(mi/hr)*(300 W•hr/mi) = 90 W.

I wish Stat's would give the cumulative rather than the density but they don't so we have to integrate the curve by eye but looking at the one you posted its plain that quite a few people have drains more than twice 0.3. Thus, IMO, what OP saw is, while perhaps at the high end of normal, nonetheless normal. It's certainly not indicative that someone left a spanner across a bus bar.
 

oliver4ever

Member
Jun 14, 2019
123
5
ukraine
if they keep car is open ? that mean ? battary will be used ?
becouse i can open the car and the key not there and it's showing me the car is off ?
that mean the battary using becouse the car is open ? not closed
 

Dr. J

Active Member
Aug 23, 2017
1,473
2,732
Fort Worth, Texas
Where I got the numbers:

The Tesla manual says that the battery self discharges at about 1% per day. Assuming the battery to have a capacity of 100000 Wh the daily rate would be 0.01*100000/24 = 41.667 Watts.

As for my car's phantom drain: I use that same curve from Stats. My particular rate is 0.29 mi/hr. Let's call it 0.3. I use about 300 wH to go a mile. 0.3(mi/hr)*(300 W•hr/mi) = 90 W.

I wish Stat's would give the cumulative rather than the density but they don't so we have to integrate the curve by eye but looking at the one you posted its plain that quite a few people have drains more than twice 0.3. Thus, IMO, what OP saw is, while perhaps at the high end of normal, nonetheless normal. It's certainly not indicative that someone left a spanner across a bus bar.
You keep saying "daily" but your calculations say "hourly." You're dividing by 24. :confused:
 

Dr. J

Active Member
Aug 23, 2017
1,473
2,732
Fort Worth, Texas
.01 (fraction loss/da)*100000 = 1000 watt hr/da
1000 (watt hr/day)/24 (hr/day) = 41.667 watt.
So 1% per day vampire drain is normal, per the user manual. So if the OP had more than 14% when he started his 14-day adventure, he would not be at zero. Is 255 km equivalent to 14% of the Model X battery? 255 km should be closer to 50% +/- depending on the specific model, right? So if 1% per day is normal, how is (50%/14 days = ) 3.57% per day also normal?
 

ajdelange

Active Member
Dec 10, 2018
1,077
638
Virginia/Quebec
See No. 5 where a histogram has been posted. The mode is 0.25 mph = 6 mpd. 6 mpd*14 da = 64 mi = 103 km in 14 days. So if his drain were the modal drain he would expect to lose that much. But note from the histogram that perhaps 40% of users experience phantom drain more than twice that or 206 km. And perhaps 15 - 20% experience phantom drain thrice that (309 km) in 14 days. So while loss of 250 km is higher than average it is not that unusual

Thus, IMO, what OP saw is, while perhaps at the high end of normal, nonetheless normal. It's certainly not indicative that someone left a spanner across a bus bar.
 

oliver4ever

Member
Jun 14, 2019
123
5
ukraine
if they keep car is open ? that mean ? battary will be used ?
becouse i can open the car and the key not there and it's showing me the car is off ?
that mean the battary using becouse the car is open ? not closed


i need answer :DDD
 

ajdelange

Active Member
Dec 10, 2018
1,077
638
Virginia/Quebec
The car can be in one of several states
1)Sleeping
2)Idle/park
3)Neutral
4)Drive
5)Reverse

In 1) very little energy is drawn from the battery. Just enough to run the processes that allow the car to detect that an attempt is being made to connect to it. At the same time it is self discharging to some extent as discussed in previous posts.

In 2) several maintenance processes are being run. For example the car could be downloading software or reporting status to the Tesla App. Cabin preheating could be taking plave

in 3)The radio, lights, heater etc could be on

Thus if the car is in other than sleep it will be consuming more power. To keep vampire drain at a minimum do not make data requests from the car nor allow apps to do so. Don't approach it with the key, open its doors, sit in it, play the radio etc. Doing any of those things will drain the battery.
 
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oliver4ever

Member
Jun 14, 2019
123
5
ukraine
The car can be in one of several states
1)Sleeping
2)Idle/park
3)Neutral
4)Drive
5)Reverse

In 1) very little energy is drawn from the battery. Just enough to run the processes that allow the car to detect that an attempt is being made to connect to it. At the same time it is self discharging to some extent as discussed in previous posts.

In 2) several maintenance processes are being run. For example the car could be downloading software or reporting status to the Tesla App. Cabin preheating could be taking plave

in 3)The radio, lights, heater etc could be on

Thus if the car is in other than sleep it will be consuming more power. To keep vampire drain at a minimum do not make data requests from the car nor allow apps to do so. Don't approach it with the key, open its doors, sit in it, play the radio etc. Doing any of those things will drain the battery.


yes car is not sleeping becouse it's open and battary 12v get error to chenge it >>
 

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,178
5,336
MA, NH
155 miles in 14 days! No way that is normal. Even if sentry and overheat are on, they turn off at 20% and the thing drops into deep sleep. I’ve noticed deep sleep is like 1-3 miles per day. Something happened to drop like that. Call Tesla and they can look and tell you what percentage your car was at and how much it lost per day.

Many Sentry users report as much as 2 miles an hour.

14 days * 24 hours * 2 miles = 672 miles.

Even 1 mile / hr for sentry would deplete a full battery in 2 weeks.

All that stuff is supposed to shutdown at 20% though.

If my car is ever in a body shop or service for an extended stay I will watch it like a hawk (by visiting it).
 
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