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How often did you use the upgraded AP functions

Do you think it’s worth the $7900 (CAD) upgrade

  • Yes

  • No

  • I’m thinking too


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. . . It is just that FSD needs to be equal or better than the human driver for it to be widely accepted, otherwise it is just adds more work as we have to supervise the system and drive the car.
I'm reminded of the old joke, please don't personify inanimate objects as they resent it. Comparing AutoPilot to a human ignores the obvious, it is just a tool.

A perfect tool, no, but few tools beyond a rock are not. AutoPilot is never tired, over-worked, stress out, running a low grade fever, suffering allergies, distracted, looking for revenge, . . . It is a tool, nothing more or less. In the hands of a skilled driver who has the attitude and patience to learn how to use it, AutoPilot is very, very handy.

Bob Wilson
 
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The car backs in when it autoparks. It won't, ever, need rear cross-traffic, because it won't, ever, be backing out of a spot it parked itself in. It'll be pulling out forward (Where it already has multiple cameras and forward radar)
In a perfect (simulated) world but it is full of edge cases.

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EDIT: Forgot but here I am pulled into a Tesla Supercharger. How do you back into it???? If it happened to me then when you put millions on the road parking several times a day it is bound to happen at least 10k times a day.

IMG_0641.jpg
 
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As I pointed out earlier- heavily angled lots like that don't work the same way.

You aren't blindly backing out at a 90 degree angle into 2-way traffic like perpendicular parking lots-- you're backing into 1-way traffic at a 45 degree angle- the stock rear view camera would be more than sufficient there.




It's not clear at all why you couldn't back into the supercharger spot though, you'd just back in on the other side of it (or use the other charge cord)... in fact all the SCs I've been to look intended for you to back in (granted I've not been to a huge #).... heck there's been entire threads of people complaining about having to back in based on location/cord length!

Supercharger locations - why back-in?
 
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Some people actually enjoy driving. I agree that sitting in stop and go traffic is not my idea of fun as a driver, but it sucks pretty bad as a passenger as well. You make it sound like sitting in an air conditioned car while streaming music or talking on the phone while having to manage two pedals and steer is torture. Maybe we all take bus or just go back to walking?

Not sure where you live, but in Southern California, if you’re driving anywhere at any time of day other than between 1-3 AM, you’re sitting in stop and go traffic, so no, driving here isn’t fun.

There’s nothing fun about having to stay on high alert for over an hour watching out for a zillion a-holes who get bored in traffic and look at their phones rather than the back of your car, while also being cut off every 2 min by people who wait until the last possible second to get out of an exit lane into your lane. Or getting flipped off by the person behind you simply because you aren’t driving so close to the car in front of you so as to be literally touching their bumper.

I don’t know what kind of utopia you live in where all you have to worry about is what song is on the radio while your hair blows in the wind and the sky rains down $100 bills in your face while you drive, but pushing a couple pedals and messing with the radio/phone are most definitely NOT the only things to which I have to be paying extremely vigilant attention :p

I’ve never met a person on earth who thinks any part of driving in heavy traffic is fun.
 
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So you would rather be enjoying driving in THIS than chilling out?:eek::rolleyes: Also keep in mind that this enjoyment comes at the COST of the lives of almost 40,000 people a year in the US alone. If everyone switched to FSD today that figure would probably be cut by at least ½ and would be very low in just a few years.


View attachment 425913

Traffic != fun for sure but I take issue with the FSD assumption == increased safety. Someday hopefully yes, today? If the cars all could talk to each other and coordinate with each other and pedestrians and bikes - maybe but not yet.. not from what I've seen.
 
Good! We need more cars doing that - maybe it will finally help California drivers to discover the existence of the turn signal :)

Do you use your turn signal when you’re on a 2 lane side street at 1 am with absolutely zero traffic within a half mile from you in all directions? Would you like to be forced to do so, and then wait a second so that the car doesn’t bump you back in your lane, before moving over to the other lane? Using a turn signal in this scenario is absolutely pointless. I don’t want my car FORCING me to perform pointless actions at all times to avoid annoyingly bumping me and/or warning me repeatedly.

If you don’t regularly drive in these conditions and so may be prone to dismissing this scenario, understand that plenty of other people do...
 
Do you use your turn signal when you’re on a 2 lane side street at 1 am with absolutely zero traffic within a half mile from you in all directions?

Yes. Just like I put my seatbelt on even if I'm "not going far" and there's "nobody on the road".

Habits are good things when it comes to safety.


Would you like to be forced to do so

I think it'd be awesome if everyone were forced to use turn signals when turning/lane changing-and thus developed the habit of always doing so- it'd vastly improve road safety.

Weird you'd oppose making driving safer.


If you don’t regularly drive in these conditions and so may be prone to dismissing this scenario, understand that plenty of other people do...


I live in "the country" and drive places that are just 1 lane each way with little to no traffic frequently. I still use my turn signal out of habit, and wish everyone else did too because their not doing so means they often don't use it when there ARE other cars around either.
 
Do you use your turn signal when you’re on a 2 lane side street at 1 am with absolutely zero traffic within a half mile from you in all directions? Would you like to be forced to do so, and then wait a second so that the car doesn’t bump you back in your lane, before moving over to the other lane? Using a turn signal in this scenario is absolutely pointless. I don’t want my car FORCING me to perform pointless actions at all times to avoid annoyingly bumping me and/or warning me repeatedly.

If you don’t regularly drive in these conditions and so may be prone to dismissing this scenario, understand that plenty of other people do...

Like another poster just replied, yes. I always use the turn signal, even when turning from the street into my driveway. Even if it’s 1am and there is no one around. It’s not hard to do and takes almost zero effort. Consistency is the key. Doing that every time all the time will ensure that you won’t forget it when it’s actually needed. It will be automatic and won’t require any thinking at all.
 
Like another poster just replied, yes. I always use the turn signal, even when turning from the street into my driveway. Even if it’s 1am and there is no one around. It’s not hard to do and takes almost zero effort. Consistency is the key. Doing that every time all the time will ensure that you won’t forget it when it’s actually needed. It will be automatic and won’t require any thinking at all.

This morning, like most mornings, I am driving to work and there is a bike in the shoulder to my right. The road is 1 lane in each direction with turning lanes in the center, yellow dashed lines to the left of me. I generally always pull left around the cyclist ( I have been one on this road and it's nerve wracking when cars are too close ) and in doing so for sure get the left wheels of the car out of my lane for a couple car lengths I suspect.

Were I to signal here, I would give the wrong message to following cars. If the car had it's automation systems on, would it try to stop me from leaving my lane? I don't want to find out on roads like this, especially with a bike right there. Situations like this are why I'm so vocally opposed to ELDA being on by default. There are too many local places it does not make sense.

On controlled access highways, these systems make a bunch more sense to me - and if I understand the manual, it's the only place Tesla really thinks they are ready for..

YMMV
 
This morning, like most mornings, I am driving to work and there is a bike in the shoulder to my right. The road is 1 lane in each direction with turning lanes in the center, yellow dashed lines to the left of me. I generally always pull left around the cyclist ( I have been one on this road and it's nerve wracking when cars are too close ) and in doing so for sure get the left wheels of the car out of my lane for a couple car lengths I suspect.

Were I to signal here, I would give the wrong message to following cars. If the car had it's automation systems on, would it try to stop me from leaving my lane? I don't want to find out on roads like this, especially with a bike right there. Situations like this are why I'm so vocally opposed to ELDA being on by default. There are too many local places it does not make sense.

On controlled access highways, these systems make a bunch more sense to me - and if I understand the manual, it's the only place Tesla really thinks they are ready for..

YMMV

I have a similar driving situation every day and have to partially pull into the yellow dashed section (or even cross the double solid line on narrower roads) to give more space for the cyclists and I’ve never had ELDA to activate yet. I always use the turn signal (even before Tesla) and I don’t think it’s confusing for the cars behind. It’s never confusing to me, and I really like when people do that because I can see that the car ahead of me will start maneuvering soon. Since you don’t slow down and don’t really fully merge into the dashed lane it’s obvious why you turned the signal on.

As for ELDA, I had a few instances where I had to avoid some large potholes or debris on the road and had to cross the lane boundaries. While I didn’t use the turn signal in this instance, I never had ELDA activation either. All I got was the vibration in the steering wheel. I have turned off regular lane departure assist though exactly for this reason (plus I drive on the airport taxiways sometimes where the centerline is a solid yellow line).
 
Not sure where you live, but in Southern California, if you’re driving anywhere at any time of day other than between 1-3 AM, you’re sitting in stop and go traffic, so no, driving here isn’t fun.

There’s nothing fun about having to stay on high alert for over an hour watching out for a zillion a-holes who get bored in traffic and look at their phones rather than the back of your car, while also being cut off every 2 min by people who wait until the last possible second to get out of an exit lane into your lane. Or getting flipped off by the person behind you simply because you aren’t driving so close to the car in front of you so as to be literally touching their bumper.

I don’t know what kind of utopia you live in where all you have to worry about is what song is on the radio while your hair blows in the wind and the sky rains down $100 bills in your face while you drive, but pushing a couple pedals and messing with the radio/phone are most definitely NOT the only things to which I have to be paying extremely vigilant attention :p

I’ve never met a person on earth who thinks any part of driving in heavy traffic is fun.

It sounds like you are sitting in heavy traffic right now. ;) For the record, I never said it is enjoyable to drive in traffic. I also said it is no fun as a passenger either. Will you be any happier sitting in a self driving car while dealing with the a-holes you describe? The simple fact is that the area you live in is overpopulated and the supporting infrastructure can't handle it. It may be easier to use UBER/LYFT, move or find a way to work from home than to wait for FSD to make your driving life less stressful.
 
I have a similar driving situation every day and have to partially pull into the yellow dashed section (or even cross the double solid line on narrower roads) to give more space for the cyclists and I’ve never had ELDA to activate yet..

Good to know.

As for signaling, I have little doubt the folks behind me would honk or otherwise show their displeasure at my apparent lack of getting out of their way after signaling ;)
 
On controlled access highways, these systems make a bunch more sense to me - and if I understand the manual, it's the only place Tesla really thinks they are ready for..

YMMV


FWIW that limitation on the places the system is intended to be used apply to the driver assist features like autopilot and (the current as of this post features of) FSD meant do so some of the "normal" driving tasks in routine use within their operational domain under human supervision.

Basic safety systems like emergency braking (and ELDA I suppose) have no such domain restrictions described in the manual.
 
The only feature I use daily when in regular autopilot on the highway is the lane change initiated by the turn signal stalk.

I rarely use the other features with EAP...
  • Navigate on Autopilot - never use it for my commute as cannot take my exits properly, and it takes too long to change lanes in NJ traffic
  • Auto Lane Change - same as above using NoA
  • Autopark - occassionally I use this when parking at the gym early in the morning but again, in densly populated NJ, this just slows things down. I also have to angle the car to back in, so it doesn't have to pull forward because of the initial angle it wants to take.
  • Summon - presently used on rare occasions to back the car out of the garage into the driveway. I have a tight garage and it won't go in properly, so this is a one way deal. I've never used it out in public where someone has boxed me in so tight I can't open the door.
 
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