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How quickly is autopilot "learning" about its trouble spots? Anybody experience it?

calisnow

Banned
Oct 11, 2014
2,867
4,650
Los Angeles
EDIT: Sorry! I put this post in the wrong forum - mods please move to Model S forum - thanks!

I'm just curious to know if anyone has been over the same route two or more times yet and experienced the autopilot becoming more confident in spots where the first time around it asked you to hold the wheel.
 
Last edited:

Griffinlair

Member
Nov 22, 2014
70
2
Cincinnati, OH
I have driven the same route at least 4 times.
I've noticed a significant improvement. On at least two of the exit ramps on the right, which on the first day were so abrupt, I ended up completely taking the exit, those two areas are now just a gentle drift to the right and it recovers back to my lane.
Additionally, on a couple tighter turns, the hands on wheels happened the first two times. Now it doesn't ask.
 

hobbes

Active Member
Feb 11, 2013
2,605
12,808
Germany
I have driven the same route at least 4 times.
I've noticed a significant improvement. On at least two of the exit ramps on the right, which on the first day were so abrupt, I ended up completely taking the exit, those two areas are now just a gentle drift to the right and it recovers back to my lane.
Additionally, on a couple tighter turns, the hands on wheels happened the first two times. Now it doesn't ask.


That is pretty amazing. Seems like the system is learning real time, would have expected some data review and then a release. Wonder if this is only data from your vehicle or if others have already contributed.
 

dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S
May 17, 2009
18,278
151
Nevada
I wonder if the car reports areas where it did sudden turns like that or disengages for review by people at Tesla. They would then be able to teach the system how it should have reacted or tweak the algorithm.
 

saladman

Member
Feb 11, 2015
95
1
Seattle, WA
I'm not sure how they are updating it, but I would want to agree that it's getter smarter on a daily basis. It seems to not make so many erratic choices as it did on day one.

Now for reality: We as users are getting smarter about how it behaves, and are becoming more active and routine in our responses. Those first few days all reactions a car has, are foreign and new. When we start to properly anticipate the AI behavior, we think it's getting smarter, when in reality we are getting smarter about using it as a tool.
 

Todd Burch

Voltage makes me tingle.
Nov 3, 2009
7,847
28,920
Smithfield, VA
I wasn't going to say anything for fear of sounding crazy, but I've experienced the same thing! In multiple places on Thursday and Friday where the car started to take the exit, it's only slightly turning and then correcting to stay in the lane.

It's premature to say for sure why yet, but it looks like at least some of us are seeing improvements.
 

drewgould

Member
Sep 24, 2015
35
0
North Canton, Ohio
I wonder if the car reports areas where it did sudden turns like that or disengages for review by people at Tesla. They would then be able to teach the system how it should have reacted or tweak the algorithm.

On the press phone call, Elon Musk said that the car reports back to Tesla engineers for review when a user disengages Autopilot. Additionally, data about what the user did when Autopilot was disengaged is also provided so that Tesla engineers can quickly determine what in that scenario needs done to better handle it.
 

kirkbauer

Member
May 31, 2015
623
242
Atlanta, GA
On the press phone call, Elon Musk said that the car reports back to Tesla engineers for review when a user disengages Autopilot. Additionally, data about what the user did when Autopilot was disengaged is also provided so that Tesla engineers can quickly determine what in that scenario needs done to better handle it.

Important question: how do you disengage autopilot without bothering Tesla about it? Because if I want to take an exit or make an aggressive maneuver I just force the steering wheel. I wonder if I'm spamming Tesla?
 

Stoneymonster

Active Member
Jan 8, 2013
1,787
1,064
Aptos, Ca
Important question: how do you disengage autopilot without bothering Tesla about it? Because if I want to take an exit or make an aggressive maneuver I just force the steering wheel. I wonder if I'm spamming Tesla?

I wouldn't worry about it. Part of "big data" is classification of meaningful events vs. noise.
 

Todd Burch

Voltage makes me tingle.
Nov 3, 2009
7,847
28,920
Smithfield, VA
Important question: how do you disengage autopilot without bothering Tesla about it? Because if I want to take an exit or make an aggressive maneuver I just force the steering wheel. I wonder if I'm spamming Tesla?

I've thought the same thing. Of course if necessary just grab the wheel and turn away, but if you have time press the cruise control stalk forward to disengage manually.
 

Electricfan

Active Member
Aug 24, 2013
1,250
283
Houston
How can the car's behavior change without a download of new firmware? I don't understand how this could be possible.

As I understand it, the auto-pilot works by "read - react". It doesn't store a map of the road and estimate your position on that map using GPS. Its processing the road using its camera/radar/ultrasonic and using an algorithm to steer. So that algorithm is part of the firmware that's downloaded, and it won't change until they update it and issue a new release of firmware.

Am I wrong? Its not unusual for me to be wrong, I admit.
 

Bangor Bob

Member
Jan 5, 2015
670
486
Bangor, ME
How can the car's behavior change without a download of new firmware? I don't understand how this could be possible.

As I understand it, the auto-pilot works by "read - react". It doesn't store a map of the road and estimate your position on that map using GPS. Its processing the road using its camera/radar/ultrasonic and using an algorithm to steer. So that algorithm is part of the firmware that's downloaded, and it won't change until they update it and issue a new release of firmware.

Am I wrong? Its not unusual for me to be wrong, I admit.

My hunch is that it's keeping a "usual driving behavior" database in conjunction with the nav system's map data? Be interesting to know the communications back and forth from the car to HQ and HQ to the car to make that work. Hope there's lots of space on the hard drive and fortunately Elon's picking up the data charges.
 

Todd Burch

Voltage makes me tingle.
Nov 3, 2009
7,847
28,920
Smithfield, VA
How can the car's behavior change without a download of new firmware? I don't understand how this could be possible.

As I understand it, the auto-pilot works by "read - react". It doesn't store a map of the road and estimate your position on that map using GPS. Its processing the road using its camera/radar/ultrasonic and using an algorithm to steer. So that algorithm is part of the firmware that's downloaded, and it won't change until they update it and issue a new release of firmware.

Am I wrong? Its not unusual for me to be wrong, I admit.

Elon mentioned in his press conference last week that the algorithms would be updated without requiring a firmware update to the car.

It's possible that the sensors are sometimes reading a situation in which there is some "gray area". In other words, the algorithms have two possible courses of action, each of which seem to be about equally likely to be the right one (from the car's perspective). Even a little bit of auxiliary information could tip the scales toward the car making a different decision in that scenario...which could change behavior.

Another likely factor are environmental conditions, The sun's position (as well as overcast vs. sunny skies) has a significant impact on what the camera can see. So while it might clearly see the lines on an overcast day or a day with the sun over your shoulder, it might not see those same lines on a sunny day where the sun is in your face. It would likely perform better in the former scenario.
 

Crowded Mind

Member
Oct 26, 2014
651
1,731
United States
GPS is absolutely a component in the Autopilot software decisions. Elon mentioned on his call with the press that one of the ways they have been able to solve difficult-to-see lane markings was to have a driver go out and drive in each lane to get the GPS data.
 

hockeythug

Active Member
Jun 3, 2013
1,979
879
Minnesota
How can the car's behavior change without a download of new firmware? I don't understand how this could be possible.

As I understand it, the auto-pilot works by "read - react". It doesn't store a map of the road and estimate your position on that map using GPS. Its processing the road using its camera/radar/ultrasonic and using an algorithm to steer. So that algorithm is part of the firmware that's downloaded, and it won't change until they update it and issue a new release of firmware.

Am I wrong? Its not unusual for me to be wrong, I admit.

I assume the auto-pilot data updates are coming from a separate data feed and stored as such.
 

ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2013
19,197
13,846
San Mateo, CA
How can the car's behavior change without a download of new firmware? I don't understand how this could be possible.
Ive been wondering the same thing.
Elon mentioned in his press conference last week that the algorithms would be updated without requiring a firmware update to the car.
I do not understand how that would work (this is all way outside my field!). If an individual car on AP "learns" the characteristics of a particular road, is it keeping a database of map coordinates and then sending them to the Tesla data center, where at some point in the future all other cars will get them? That seems like way to much information to send to each car and store in each car.
 

NoMoGas

Supporting Member
Important question: how do you disengage autopilot without bothering Tesla about it? Because if I want to take an exit or make an aggressive maneuver I just force the steering wheel. I wonder if I'm spamming Tesla?

Tap brakes or push AP stalk

- - - Updated - - -

How can the car's behavior change without a download of new firmware? I don't understand how this could be possible.

As I understand it, the auto-pilot works by "read - react". It doesn't store a map of the road and estimate your position on that map using GPS. Its processing the road using its camera/radar/ultrasonic and using an algorithm to steer. So that algorithm is part of the firmware that's downloaded, and it won't change until they update it and issue a new release of firmware.

Am I wrong? Its not unusual for me to be wrong, I admit.

Easy it's connected to the mothership... essentially a cloud vs saved on board. When Mothership not available, it uses whats stored but goes to mothership 1st for guidance.
 

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