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Discussion in 'Model S' started by Dornish, Jun 4, 2018.
2016 S70, completely reliable over 26 months. Absolutely no problems.
Finally i decided to add mine. For context my 2014 P85D has been the most reliable car I have had. 35,000 miles now. It sits on my charger roughly nine months per year, so I only drive it two to three weeks at a time. I have done that with cars for the last thirty years. My Tesla has had the fewest problems of any of those cars, including BMW 5 series. Audi 4, MB S class and some others. Many problems probably came from long periods of storage.
1.12V battery failed while i was out. Tesla identified it, called me and came to change the battery while i was still out of the country.
2. charge port door would not close. Changed in minutes at a Tesla SC while I was charging at the co-located Supercharger.
3. One a/c pump failed. Tesla replaced in hours without any inconvenience at all.
That makes it the most reliable car I have every had. I hope my new P3D can be as good.
And, yes, I would buy another one!
3+ years in,
12v battery failed once
Had a small rattle that the service center fixed.
I won't buy another one though for the following reasons,
1. Tesla has repeatedly promised and failed to fix the repair situation.
2. The general cost cutting and it's effect on service centers etc. is beginning to show. Also the employees seem overworked and unhappy.
3. AP2 promises largely unfulfilled
4. Model S quality and design mostly stagnant over so many years now.
5. Insurances keep going higher and Tesla doesn't do anything about it.
6. Media experience is terrible, and Tesla CAN improve it, but they just won't.
7. General other hot air tweets by Elon, screen mirroring etc. which are just that - hot air. I still admire him for all that he has done, but his focus is quite thinned out between SpaceX, twitter, politics, and Tesla. I wish he finds a way to refocus.
8. And generally speaking, owning a Tesla out of warranty is a stupid stupid idea. Tesla will screw you as a captive audience at every chance it gets. Just see the other post about charging $3400 for replacing an AC compressor (which is $100-$300). Yeah good job, great way to treat your best supporters, and all those promises about "Service center is not a profit center". BS
But I do like driving it, I do feel "safe" in it, I like AP1 (that is what I have). So you can say I have somewhat of a bipolar relationship with my car.
TL;DR; I'll keep mine for the next few years, with hopes that Tesla somehow addresses the above issues. But I am not holding my breath.
The off-the-line quality control issues with Tesla vehicles is the reason of greatest magnitude that would lead me to avoid Tesla purchase.
If that answer seems to not address your echoed question, see the thread title and review the concept of non-sequitur.
I have owned my Model S for 2 Months now and half that times its been in the shop, After having it for 1 month I hit a curb to avoid getting hit by another driver. 2 ball joints on my suspension broke ($180 in parts) and I got the car towed to a body shop. If there is any suspension damage Tesla requires you to replace the Steering rack for safety reasons.
My car has now been in the shop for 1 month with the steering rack on back order and I'm told that it could take 6 months to get it in and replaced on my car. I'm debating on selling this Model S when I get it back because if such a simple part takes so long to get I can't imagine how long it would have taken if it was serious.
42500 miles on my 12/16 S 90D. No issues to add to almost no issues I reported upthread at 30k. Lots of grins though! Tire wear a little high due to extreme torque/wt.
from odo 50k to 70k, I have replaced the motor (under warranty) due to noise, and both left wheel bearings. Still WAY more reliable than the Porsche Cayenne turbo it replaced.
There are VAST differences between Tesla service centers. I have been to a few and one blew-me-away and another was only slightly-better-than typical dealerships..
Never had any serious issue with mine, the minor things were an opportunity to get excellent service, car wash.
"I had an accident and my car is in the shop for too long" ... is nothing to do about reliability.
"Every time I go to drive my car and I get to my destination." Is a statement about reliability.
Never failed me getting to my destination for every journey I set out on. This car is my daily driver.
For me, four plus years of ownership and 148k km later... 100% reliable.
A huge indicator of reliability (with all factors considered) is, "would you buy another one?".
For me, yes. I did. Tesla scores very well for repeat buyers... maybe best. That says a lot.
If you want nitty gritty component wise reliability compared to industry average... Consumers Report tracks this. Knock your socks off. You'll buy two year old Toyota Camry, or similar.
in a very narrow sense of reliability you're right but thinking of Clayton Christensen's idea that we buy products to do a job, if my Tesla is in the shop for X months that's time it's not doing it's job of providing me electric transportation in the same way as if I hired a top notch gardener and he randomly dispatches his apprentice for long stretches I wouldn't consider him reliable. Maybe you want to say "Is the company reliable" there but it's implied when asking about the car.
More narrowly I think you could expand reliability to "do the major features work". Since the job I paid for the car to do is transport me in comfort, meaning the windows, seats, HVAC and infotainment should all be working.
Colloquially this checks out for me since if I asked someone to recommend a reliable car and then 6 months later it's still running and driving but all the power features don't work I'd be very disappointed. I mean I know a guy who's trying to lemon law his Alfa because the backup camera keeps going out.
Conclusion is the same. Check CR. Tesla's about average. Count on a few squeaks and rattles since this was really their first car and it's not built like an LS430.
8. yeah people like to point out all the parts sharing with Fords and Mercedes' as a negative for such an expensive car but for me it's great, means I'll be able to get parts at affordable prices basically forever. And lack of an engine means most stuff is pretty easily accessible once you pull the frunk.
My S75 Model S has 27,880 miles on it since delivered new June 26, 2016. It was perfect upon delivery. A car crashed into the left side near the front with pretty serious damage when it only had 4,000 miles. Nevertheless, I have not had even so much as one minor issue with this car either before the crash or afterwards. It has been perfect in every respect; not a rattle or anything. Hopefully, I will be able to say the same after I reach 200,000 miles.
Just wanted to update this thread. As I mentioned earlier, all Tesla's we purchased had some issues, but Tesla used to take care of them in a timely manner so it was just a minor annoyance - part of an early adopter lifestyle I guess. With the flood of Model 3's however, that changed, now the service centers are plugged up and replacement parts (for Model S) seem to be delayed to the point where you can't even get ETA's, which in my opinion changes the "effective reliability of a Model S" as minor issues can now become large issues if they leave you without a reliable car for weeks or months while waiting to repair them. I'm talking here only things covered under warranty - on top of that are of course issues when you car is damaged, even minor damage can get you stranded for months as @NAS561 mentioned above in post #86). I used to recommend Tesla's to friends and family, with a note of caution that they will likely have to see the service center a few times more that they would expect to service their Toyotas or Hondas, but service has always been stellar for me so not a huge deal. I recently changed my tune to "I wouldn't buy one now, hold off and see if Tesla can dig themselves out of the hole they are in". Service people are still super nice, but their hands are tied by the fact that they have a flood of cars they have to service and shortages of parts (and loaners).
Absolutely. Repairs due to accident are not a part of vehicle reliability.
No measure of vehicle reliability is defined as such.
If it were, the drive motors on every Tesla could have a defect that causes them to produce half the torque after 1 month of use and this would not affect reliability.
Owner satisfaction is not a metric of reliability. Even owner survey asking, "Do you consider your vehicle reliable?" would not be a metric of reliability.
Vehicle reliability is measured in frequency (how often does each vehicle of a given make/model incur a given problem?), volume (how many vehicles of a given make/model incur a given problem?), and type of non-accident, non-maintenance repairs.
2 1/2 years with a Model S (early refresh). All problems I have had were minor. The early refresh cars developed a buzz from the headlight ballast you could hear when the car was charging. They replaced the headlights and it went away. One of the speakers developed a vibration at certain frequencies. They tried tightening the mounting and then replaced it when it continued.
The only time the car was disabled was when I picked up a big chunk of metal in a tire. Tesla Roadside Assistance was great including getting a Lyft for me at Tesla's expense to go home and get the other car.
I've had essentially 0% range degradation. My 90% when new was 268-269 miles and now it's 267-268 and occasionally 269. So far this car has been more trouble free than my 1992 Buick and I drove that 24 years with no serious problems. It was running great when I sold it.
According to your definition, a car which does on day 2 of new ownership and can never be repaired has amazing reliability - it only breaks once.
As far as type of repairs, you have to take into account the repair time. Any repair should be considered major if it takes weeks or months to complete, even if 99.999% if that time is waiting for replacement part - cost if renting an equivalent vehicle for the entire duration should be added to the cost of repair when calculating reliability. P100D which needs a new trunk latch - parts $200, labour $200, rental while waiting 90 days for the part - $45K. Total cost, $45,400. Sounds like very major repair to me. Every Tesla repair is a major repair today, with month long waits for initial appointment.
I understand why you may be confused. In this context, "vehicle" does not refer to a singular automobile. It is a modifier to the type of reliability being studied. Vehicle reliability is analyzed over entire fleets of models, makes, and/or classes of vehicles.
For more information, I recommend the Consumer Reports and JD Power mechanisms for performing this analysis. These are good starting points to begin research:
Consumer Reports' Car Reliability FAQ
2018 U.S. Vehicle Dependability Study
Which insurance companies and/or dealers and/or service centers allow $500 per day for a rental car?
Ok, imagine every single vehicle dies on day 2 of ownership, cannot be repaired. Now you have a whole fleet where each car only breaks once ever! Wow, that's some awesome reliability.
I didn't think insurance cover any rentals while the car is awaiting warranty repairs. Usually Tesla owners have to pay out of pockets for rental costs while their cars await parts for weeks or months. Any other car manufacturer has dealers stock parts, and if not, they can overnight them to the shop if it's important to get the car going.
So then a vendor could recommend extraordinary maintenance and you wouldn't count that against reliability?