How Repairable Will Structural Battery Be?

[imola.zhp]

That doesn’t seem like a good analogy because Tesla increasingly runs its own body shops — and its own insurance. Both are somewhat nascent today, but should mature around the same time as the structural battery.

Your rebuttal about my analogy is to mention Tesla insurance that is only offered in one of 50 US states?

Also, it’s underwritten by another company. It’s like Verizon selling you an iPhone, it’s the same phone (insurance) it’s just billed differently.

LOL

How many body shops do they own? Serious question. How many outside of California? Another serious question.

 

[Uncle Paul]

If the accident is severe enough to damage the sructural cell, then battery replacement will be the least of your worries.

It will be on a case by case basis, with your insurance company making the call.

 

[qdeathstar]

If your iphone gets smashed you through it away, Tesla is like the iphone in that way.

 

[Brando]

Does Tesla have it's own recycling process for the batteries or do they send them to a facility. Are these batteries considered hazardous waste?

only radioactive Cobalt is hazardous
Cobalt - Wikipedia

Sandy Munro thought recycle would be freezing with Nitrogen and grind up and separate by weight. .... so he thought would be easy enough to engineer.

side note: Jeff Dahn has data that if you keep charge 30-80% they will never wear out.

Tesla battery researcher Jeff Dahn’s tests hint at li-ion cells breaking the 2M-mile barrier

 

[rrolsbe]

The Model S was designed to fairly easily drop the traction battery pack for repair/replacement. I believe Tesla used to repair the Model S packs at the module level?

The Model 3 battery pack is a fair bit harder to remove from the car but it is still bolt on. The Model 3 still has three battery modules but I have read Tesla no longer repairs the battery by replacing a defective module (at least not at the customer interface level)?

There are third party repair shops that can repair the current none structural Roadster, Model S, Model 3 and Model Y battery pack (Gruber Motors others?). I am concerned some of the cars with the structural batteries could be considered totaled because of a single cell failure (rare but it does happen). Tesla's current stance on "Right to Repair" is more like Apple's which is unfortunate (hope that changes!). I would hate to see perfectly good Tesla vehicles, with a bad traction battery, salvaged after the warranty period because the most expensive part of the car was not designed to be repairable (or even during the warranty period).

 

[JRP3]

A single cell failure won't total a pack you'll just have slightly reduced capacity.

 

[rrolsbe]

A single cell failure won't total a pack you'll just have slightly reduced capacity.

Check out at 2:30 into the video.

I have watched two videos from Gruber where they fixed a pack with a single bad cell. Normally, you are correct, it blows the fuse-able wire attached to each cell but not always.

 

[JRP3]

That's true in rare cases. My guess is Tesla knows it's rare enough to not be a serious issue. The new cells will be glued in place with structural adhesive so basically impossible to replace.

 

[Brando]

Model S has ~7,000 batteries?? how many cells need to fail to = 1%

each batter has two small wires that are small enough that the wire act as a fuse & burn/melt.
So a single cell going bad, just burns the fuse wire. Never read of a single cell hurting the pack.

 

[JRP3]

Never read of a single cell hurting the pack.

The video above does show that happening.

 

[ThomasD]

It could be that they are going to use swappable modules. The case will be a part of the car. You just remove the bad module and replace it with a new one. Without removing the entire battery case

 

[JRP3]

They have specifically stated that the idea of modules is outdated and that the cells will be glued in place as a unit and be structural.

 

[JRP3]

@Brando Wondering why you disagreed with my statement since that's exactly what the video shows, start at 2:20

"The problem with this pack was one of these modules had a bad cell and it takes only one out of 7,000 cells to disable a car".

The disconnected the bad cell that was causing parasitic drain and fixed the car.

 

[Brando]

@Brando Wondering why you disagreed with my statement since that's exactly what the video shows, start at 2:20

"The problem with this pack was one of these modules had a bad cell and it takes only one out of 7,000 cells to disable a car".

The disconnected the bad cell that was causing parasitic drain and fixed the car.

Why didn't the individual battery cell wire burn out? (2 wires/battery)
DIY 18650 pack builders also use these tiny fuse wires helps to avoid a cell overheating and burning up the entire pack.

1/7000 = .00014 which is 0.014% right?

Perhaps him wearing sun glasses in doors? caused me to doubt him.
Having see Tesla battery packs from EVwest and Sandy Munro I can't imagine how you replace one cell.
IF I found a bad cell, I'd just snip the wire. But I never heard of it happening except from this guy. and he never showed us how he took out the old cell and managed to put in a new one. IF he did, he is the only one I ever heard who claimed to do such a thing.

you believe him JRP3 ??

 

[JRP3]

He said they cut the wire to the bad cell, not that they replaced it. A cell with a low level internal parasitic drain would not blow the fuse wires, it acts as a small but constant resistor. I think you're too distracted by his sunglasses to pay attention to what he's saying, he explained it clearly in the video.

 

[MP3Mike]

1/7000 = .00014 which is 0.014% right?

It is actually 1/74 = 1.35%

 

[Brando]

I am curious how repairable the structural battery will be. I’m a big believer of reusing things.

Seems like the only downside to a structural battery is that it could theoretically be much more difficult to repair since it will be part of the vehicle structure. Thoughts?

Lithium batteries are conditioned (charged/discharged recharged & balanced -- don't know details) at the factory before going into packs. Tesla been perfecting ~ a decade (Jeff Dahn). packs can be replaced - individual cells? never heard of Tesla replacing individual cells. Tesla managed the 8 year warranty. Seems Tesla discards bad cells before they get into packs. And individual cell failures there is a "fuse wire" that burns and disconnects failed cells. Seems to be working. You can watch Sandy Munro take apart a battery pack - I can't imagine doing that and replacing a single cell (Jack Rickard did similar pack tear down.) What is better than re-use? not wearing out. My current car from 1989 - yours? (yeah, I drive very little being retarded or is it retired, I forget.

 

[theganjaguru]

Lithium batteries are conditioned (charged/discharged recharged & balanced -- don't know details) at the factory before going into packs. Tesla been perfecting ~ a decade (Jeff Dahn). packs can be replaced - individual cells? never heard of Tesla replacing individual cells. Tesla managed the 8 year warranty. Seems Tesla discards bad cells before they get into packs. And individual cell failures there is a "fuse wire" that burns and disconnects failed cells. Seems to be working. You can watch Sandy Munro take apart a battery pack - I can't imagine doing that and replacing a single cell (Jack Rickard did similar pack tear down.) What is better than re-use? not wearing out. My current car from 1989 - yours? (yeah, I drive very little being retarded or is it retired, I forget.

Solid answer but I’m not speaking. About replacing individual cells. I’m taking about replacing a pack or a module within a pack.

Let’s say I want to keep the car for a million miles as that’s how long the motor will last. I will certainly need a new pack at some point. So how easy will it be to replace? Will the Tesla’s without structural batteries be easier to repair (especially on a DIY project).

 

[JRP3]

Will the Tesla’s without structural batteries be easier to repair (especially on a DIY project).

Yes.

 

[Brando]

Tesla + 4 million miles / accident
US average ~500,000 / accident
how often are your accidents?