TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

How Secure is the Key Card?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by ImEric, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. ImEric

    ImEric Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    105
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    In particular, one thing has been bothering me about the key card entrance method. It's not the functionality or the actual security of the card itself. Rather, I'm wondering if there is a way to "Lock down" the card's functionality from being used on other phones. I understand that you use the card and your phone's NFC to connect your own Tesla App to the car, and then you just use your phone as the key in most situations. But let's say you need to valet park the car. You'd give the valet your key card, and go into your restaurant or theatre or party for a couple of hours. What's to stop that valet from using NFC on his own phone to gain permanent access to your Model 3?

    And yes, I understand that all you'd need is a simple "Don't allow new phone-keys" button in your Tesla App to prevent this. I'm just wondering if something like this already exists, or if Tesla has thought about it? Can anybody here who has some experience or insight into the Model 3 shed some light on it?
     
  2. swaltner

    swaltner Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,436
    Location:
    Kansas, USA
    I'm pretty sure the docs said that the smartphone app had to be logged into the same MyTesla account that was tied to the car to work as a key. Without your MyTesla credentials, the key card can't be "cloned" onto a smartphone. Keeping a valet from cloning your key card onto a smartphone is not a very difficult problem to solve.

    This goes without saying that your MyTesla credentials should be good passwords: long, complex, nothing based on dictionary words, not just l33t speak, etc...
     
    • Like x 2
  3. kengchang

    kengchang Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,746
    Location:
    California
    How do the valet even guess your password without knowing your email? :D
     
  4. EchoDelta

    EchoDelta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    Seattle, Planet Earth
    A classic:
    xkcd: Password Strength

    IIRC there's also a way to see the associated phones with a car and disable the associations.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Helpful x 1
    • Funny x 1
  5. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    7,109
    Location:
    Northern Virginia, USA
    And of course many people now use those passwords... :D

    InfoSec is a never ending battle, both of warfare and education....
     
  6. eSpiritIV

    eSpiritIV Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Im not sure you understand how the system works. There is a vallet mode as well. Read the manual it will give lots of good info
     
  7. gocken2

    gocken2 Model S: P6931

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    111
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I am pretty sure your phone doesn't clone the key card and neither uses NFC. They are completely separate. You long into your phone app and then through Bluetooth it will unlock the car. I pretty sure the key card is a RFID card like some security badges.
     
    • Like x 2
  8. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,759
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    I believe the card does use NFC, but NFC is just a particular implementation of RFID. The phone unlock uses Bluetooth and has nothing to do with the card. The phone unlock certainly does not use NFC, and there’s no way to “clone” an NFC card with a phone.
     
  9. favo

    favo P3D+ owner

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    983
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    From the keycard manual:
    upload_2017-10-16_2-19-31.png
    upload_2017-10-16_2-22-52.png
     

    Attached Files:

    • Informative x 3
  10. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,060
    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    God how I will miss the good old days of having a simple key for my car. Simple, convenient, and will never run out of battery.
    I can't wrap my head around why we will have to put up with a system for entering a car that needs its own instruction manual. Where's the simplicity in that?

    Plus, how long will the reception distance of the BT sensor be? If I park at our grocery store, get out and walk away, the car supposedly locks. I will have to believe it because I can't check, for as soon as I approach it will automatically open again. But now I enter the grocery store and walk along the aisle which is next to the wall that my car is parked next to*. Will the BT module have a reach far enough to make the car unlock itself because I am just a few feet away, but inside a building? This scenario will apply to any time I am somewhere near the car, but physically separated by building walls. Happens all the time during shopping, at the bank, while eating out, etc.
    I am really concerned about this. Brings me back to wishing for an old school style key solution.

    *remember over here we have lots of stores with parking spaces right next to the wall of the building, unlike the US where you have to take a golf cart from your parking spot on the vast car park to just get to the store entrance ;)
     
    • Like x 2
  11. JoaoD

    JoaoD Tech Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2016
    Messages:
    350
    Location:
    Portugal, Porto
    You can definitely tell if the car locked when you walk away, if it is like any other car with that feature it will blink and the mirrors will close if they are auto-folding mirrors. And when you approach it it will blink again and the mirrors will unfold.
    And if it is like any other keyless system you will have to be pretty close for it to unlock, being inside the store won't be a problem.
     
    • Informative x 1
  12. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,060
    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Thanks for the heads-up. I would sure hope so.
     
  13. Phrixotrichus

    Phrixotrichus Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Messages:
    585
    Location:
    Germany
    A feature i really don`t want to miss any more is remote trunk opening. Has there been word on that for the model 3?

    Opening, not unlocking.
     
  14. melindav

    melindav ☰ reserved

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    Messages:
    733
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    the trunk does not auto-open if that is what you mean. when the doors are unlocked, you can use the button near the license plate light to unlatch/open it (manually)
     
  15. Phrixotrichus

    Phrixotrichus Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Messages:
    585
    Location:
    Germany
    Seriously....that`s incredibly lame.
     
    • Disagree x 5
    • Funny x 1
  16. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    18,434
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    I may own a Model 3 at some point in the future but don't have a researvation right now. In my opinion, the Model 3 RFID card/Bluetooth enabled smartphone app approach is clearly targeted at the younger generations who overwhelmingly rely on their phones for all kinds of uses and likely are very comfortable with how the 3 is locked/unlocked. And it makes a lot of sense to me. The app looks to be easy to set up, and once that is done, as long as your phone has power the locking/unlocking happens automatically and seamlessly. You certainly should always carry the key card with you as a backup but it's very thin and easily to carry, and you will only rarely use it, if every.

    I think it is a bold move by Tesla that anticipates the future while helping to create it. If I was getting a 3 I would have no concerns about their new system. I'm 63.

    As far as the trunk opening remotely, at this point I'm not sure we know the answer about that with certainty. I wonder if there will be a setting in the app for that? Seems possible. It's still early days with the 3; no point in getting upset about a "missing feature" until you are sure it is actually missing. If we do know for certain that the trunk cannot be opened remotely, please point me towards that information, I'd like to see it.
     
    • Like x 1
  17. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,060
    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    I am 40 and I admit this system makes absolutely no sense to me. More often than not I don't have my phone with me, so I would use the card for at least 90% of my driving.

    I think Tesla has created a solution for a "problem" that doesn't exist.
    No matter what, as soon as you need an instruction manual for something as simple as entering a vehicle with a key, there is something wrong imho.
    Sure, in the end it might become a non-issue, but I just don't understand why there is a need for something this complicated and inconvenient when there is a tried and trusted method that has worked for decades and still works beautifully. I thought Tesla was about simplicity and ease of use. Such as system is the exact opposite to me.
    I have no problem with changing times, I wouldn't change to a BEV for instance if it was so. But it has to make sense. Such a system doesn't make the least bit sense to me, or at least it doesn't offer any tangible advantage over a classic key or keyfob.
     
    • Disagree x 2
    • Like x 1
  18. ElecFan

    ElecFan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    Netherlands
    If you don't like it, don't use it.
     
  19. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    10,954
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Why would we have to use valet parking. All we have to do is send our car home and have it come pick us up. AP5 will be available next month right?
     
  20. tashtibet

    tashtibet Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    258
    Location:
    fort collins, colorado
    I am not a fan of "smartphone" -so, I don't own/need one but I like the Nissan Leaf push to start style. Is there any other means to get the app like smart watch that can open/lock/unlock the M3? I would definitely miss the fob. Is it Okay to punch a small whole in the key card to hook it up to neck strap.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC