How Secure is the Key Card?

[AustinPowers]

Tesla is the Borg. You will be assimilated.

Well, then there is hope after all. If Best of both Worlds, First Contact and Voyager have told us anything it's that resistance is not futile!

The school bus RFID is for tracking purposes. Especially for the younger kids. The system knows which kids are on the bus, and alerts the driver if a kiddo doesn't get out at their spot. It also lets the parents tracks the kids, but only while they are on the bus.

Oh my, what the ...? What kind of pampering / 1984 style surveillance.
Has the US become such a violent / dangerous country nowadays that you can't let your kids out on their own any longer? If so, that would be truly sad.
Over here we still trust the instincts and abilities of our kids to get around safely through their environment / life. You can't protect them forever anyway you know.
Plus, the bus driver doesn't give a toss whether any kid gets out at their spot or not. And why should he? He's payed to safely drive the bus from one end of the line to the other, not to nanny each and every passenger, no matter their age. Then again, it is well known that the German definition of "service" in general differs quite substantially from the American one.

If Audi has figured this out already, I'm hopeful Tesla has, too.

I hope so to, but I wouldn't count on it. There are tons of things that Tesla hasn't figured out yet that legacy automakers have - for years, if not decades. But at least Model 3 shows marked improvements over the S and X in many aspects, so there's hope after all.

I've never really understood the conflicting viewpoints a single person can have on this subject:

- Wants to own one of the most technologically advanced vehicles available, not only in 2017, but in all of human history to date.

- Doesn't have a smartphone.

Of course almost everyone nowadays has a smartphone. But that doesn't mean they want to carry it with them all the time. Thankfully, as it appears, the RFID card backup solution Tesla uses provides a handy alternate means of using your car in those instances. Therefor I'm fine. Still, a car shaped fob would have been cool. Was really hoping they would go the Model S / X way with that. But anyway, moving on...

 

[AustinPowers]

...OK, so once biometrics arrive, then we can argue about how strong your brain waves/EEG is/are, and how much you need to think about unlocking your Tesla before it unlocks. And in what language (...see the movie Firefox)?

I initially voted your post Funny, but come to think of it, biometrics might not be such a bad idea after all. I mean I use my fingerprint scanner to unlock my notebook, which has been working a treat for many years, so why not use my fingerprint to open my car? Most convenient way ever, as you don't have to carry anything with you, other than your finger, which you should have with you most of the time

Not what I said. But yes, nothing new will come with a key, maybe 10 years. The point I was making is that starting a car with a key is an arcane sequence which will quickly be forgotten once it is no longer necessary. And young people will need a manual to learn how to do it.

No they won't, because like you said, it is very likely that by then cars won't come with keys at all any longer, so no need for a manual about them.
And I am not against new tech per se. I am for everything that makes life easier. See above. I would be all for fingerprint scanner as the preferred entry mode as that would be really convenient and easy to use. We don't have valets over here like you do, but even if we did, a backup RFID card for valet mode would surely suffice and make a nice combo with the fingerprint scanner for the main user(s).

In the US all new credit and debit cards have a RFID chip because they are more secure (we are told). I thought we were catching up to Europe. All new US passports have them also.

Perhaps they have over here as well, I wouldn't know. Currently there is no use-case for them. Like I said, various shops tried to implement RFID based payment, but no one seemed to want to use it, so at the moment at least that seems to be a dead end, and I haven't seen it offered in any store in a while.

 

[tuoncan]

I initially voted your post Funny, but come to think of it, biometrics might not be such a bad idea after all. I mean I use my fingerprint scanner to unlock my notebook, which has been working a treat for many years, so why not use my fingerprint to open my car? Most convenient way ever, as you don't have to carry anything with you, other than your finger, which you should have with you most of the time



No they won't, because like you said, it is very likely that by then cars won't come with keys at all any longer, so no need for a manual about them.
And I am not against new tech per se. I am for everything that makes life easier. See above. I would be all for fingerprint scanner as the preferred entry mode as that would be really convenient and easy to use.

Where would you place the fingerprint scanner? Can it withstand all kind of weather environment (snow, heat, rain, dirt, etc). If you are wearing gloves during a cold day (e.g. Christmas time), wouldn't that be more troublesome to get in the car? Also if your girlfriend needs to drive you home because you were drunk, imagine having her trying to get your fingerprint to work on the car. If a friend need to borrow your car, you would need to chop your finger off and let him borrow it too or else he can't use the car. To summarize, the card is required and fingerprint scanner is just a nice thing to have.

 

[Runt8]

Perhaps they have over here as well, I wouldn't know. Currently there is no use-case for them. Like I said, various shops tried to implement RFID based payment, but no one seemed to want to use it, so at the moment at least that seems to be a dead end, and I haven't seen it offered in any store in a while.

The last time I was in Europe (UK, France, and Spain) NFC payment terminals were practically everywhere. Seems weird that Germany would be so far behind.

 

[AustinPowers]

The last time I was in Europe (UK, France, and Spain) NFC payment terminals were practically everywhere. Seems weird that Germany would be so far behind.

OT, but FYI:
Germans traditionally are very fond of cash, in 2016 accounting for more than half (51.3%) of all offline (i.e. B&M store) retail payments.
Debit cards are in second place (45.6%, including 6.1% credit cards), another 2.5% are payment via invoice (i.e. bank transfer by the customer sometime after the purchase itself). Only 0.6% are "Other" forms of payment, including RFID based systems, whether card or smartphone-based:

Source (in German):
Zahlungsverfahren: Kunden haben Mobile Payment nicht auf dem Zettel

In the article it says that about two thirds of larger chain's stores and about 20% percent of smaller stores offer RFID based terminals. It's just that hardly anyone is interested in using them (see numbers above), because to most people over here it doesn't seem to offer any advantages over cash or normal card payments.

There's a popular saying in Germany "Nur Bares ist Wahres", roughly meaning "Cash is king".

In general, Germans tend to be very, shall we say, cautious when it comes to new tech.
Same with BEVs. We as a people seem to see the negatives and dangers first and the advantages second. Americans, for better or worse, seem to be the other way around.

 

[Topher]

No they won't, because like you said, it is very likely that by then cars won't come with keys at all any longer, so no need for a manual about them.

I thought it was obvious that I was talking about legacy cars.

I would be all for fingerprint scanner as the preferred entry mode as that would be really convenient and easy to use.

No thanks. If a crook wants my car badly enough to threaten me, I want to give them my phone, not my finger.

Thank you kindly.

 

[melindav]

are we sure the hinge isn't on a spring?


my Audi A3 (sedan version) will "open" when unlocked, because the hinge is on a spring. pretty easy from a manufacturing standpoint, as opposed to motorizing it.

One of the more recent videos (I think it was the russian one) showed the owner pressing the button and walking around to the trunk and lifting it by the corner - so it looked like it unlatched but didn't raise. (he did not use the trunk button by the license plate lite)
my concern with this is I have a hatchback that is similar - has a couple small springs with bumper pads next to the latch that hold the trunk lid just above the latch - in theory... but those small springs were not strong enough to support the weight of the hatch, especially if it had rain on it, and it would re latch unless you were standing there to lift it immediately.
Obviously, the Model 3 trunk lid is much lighter weight than a full hatch with glass, but that f'ing hatch release was the biggest pain/complaint I had on that car

 

[jerry33]

Homeowners just aren't demanding smart locks.

I have a smart lock, but because it doesn’t have enough power to unlock the door most of the time, only the key is ever used. I suspect that if smart locks actually worked they would be more popular. For me it was just a waste of money.

 

[jerry33]

Has the US become such a violent / dangerous country nowadays that you can't let your kids out on their own any longer?

It’s not but almost every parent thinks so because the the line of cars delivering and picking up kids from school is almost one for one if you subtract the bus riders. This happens because of constant stream of scare stories presented by the media. Keeping people in a constant state of fear is the easiest way to control them.

 

[brkaus]

Has the US become such a violent / dangerous country nowadays that you can't let your kids out on their own any longer? If so, that would be truly sad.

Not in my opinion. It's more because kids are stupid. Instead of the kids learning, the parents blame others. I was always hearing stories from my kids about how so-and-so forgot to get off the bus at their stop.

Parents expect the bus driver to know everyone of the 60 kids on the bus and they failed to remind junior. Or the driver let the kid off at a different stop based on what the kid says so they could walk with their friends. I'm sure the district has been threatened by lawsuits. Kids need to learn this stuff, not be hand held.

 

[comanchepilot]

not sure who you fixed that for, but anyone paying $95,000 for either of the currently publicized configurations of this car (RWD short range, RWD Long range) is insane.......

Lets see:

Model 75D: $75k
EAP: $5k
Paint: $1000
Interior: $3300

Total: $84,300

Tax and reg: $7300 Calif - on the low side for tax]

Total: $91650.

100D: $104500 or so.

Average: $98000 . . .

PS: There is no RWD option any longer- they're ALL AWD now,.

Assume you want to pretend the $7500 is a discount, then the average is $90-91k - a lot closer to $95k than $50k.

 

[jhs_7645]

Lets see:

Model 75D: $75k
EAP: $5k
Paint: $1000
Interior: $3300

Total: $84,300

Tax and reg: $7300 Calif - on the low side for tax]

Total: $91650.

100D: $104500 or so.

Average: $98000 . . .

PS: There is no RWD option any longer- they're ALL AWD now,.

Assume you want to pretend the $7500 is a discount, then the average is $90-91k - a lot closer to $95k than $50k.

The thread is about the model 3

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Lets see:

Model 75D: $75k
EAP: $5k
Paint: $1000
Interior: $3300

Total: $84,300

Tax and reg: $7300 Calif - on the low side for tax]

Total: $91650.

100D: $104500 or so.

Average: $98000 . . .

PS: There is no RWD option any longer- they're ALL AWD now,.

Assume you want to pretend the $7500 is a discount, then the average is $90-91k - a lot closer to $95k than $50k.

you're on a model 3 board.


try to keep up.

 

[DarthPierce]

We've had a keypad lock on our house and rentals for years, and when we got a new place we immediately put them in again.
It's wonderful not needing to carry keys, being able to give some installer or maintenance person a code you can deactivate, or being able to let in a friend or family member without needing to physically meet with them to hand them a physical object.

As for someone mentioning not having the power to move the lock, our system still uses a human to move the bolt in and out (the keypad just activates the ability for turning the latch to actually move the bolt vs it freely spinning) so the single 9V battery lasts >3 years (and that includes use at our airbnbs).

Everyone who has experienced it regularly wants one at their home too.

I'm looking forward to not needing to carry my car key either (currently the only reason I ever have for a key)

 

[gregincal]

The thread is about the model 3

This whole section of the forum is about the Model 3. I'm definitely confused about what the price of a Model S has to do with anything.

Interesting. I was just quoting what the SC guy told me. (I have a Roadster, which uses a physical key with a button on it to do the unlock.)


Understood, but there is a difference. Again, my understanding based on some research, not first-hand. But for the safety-concerned (my wife insisted on this), one should never unlock all doors without explicitly commanding the car to do so. On our previous car, it was a twist-and-hold of the key; on her current one, it's a double-click of the fob. I believe on the S/X you can configure the fob to behave similarly, i.e. only unlock the driver's door on approach and push the fob for the others, or even require the fob click to do the unlock. If you're alone, the driver's door (and only that door) unlocks, you get in, lock the door, and drive off, without the bad guy getting a chance to jump in. The usability-meets-security aspect is that you will never remember to change the car's settings every time you get out. It has to be a one-time setting that works in all situations.

The use-case for leaving a phone/purse/wallet in the car is when going on a run or some other event where carrying the things on your person would be a problem. My wife was constantly doing this, since I had my keys in my pocket, and she wouldn't have to carry her trunk-sized purse around. But perhaps that's a topic for a different thread...

I still don't understand why you would ever need to change settings. Presumably you would keep it always set to only unlock the driver door with the walk up lock, and unlock the other doors manually when you want (here's where it gets vague, but I assume you could do so through the app, and perhaps with the card key, as a last resort you can reach in the car and tap the unlock button with the center screen). I really don't understand your point of why you would ever need to remember to change settings every time you get out.

The leaving a purse in your car is a problem that many cars have these days, certainly our Honda and my parent's Toyota has this issue. It's a bit easier with the Model 3, because you can solve it by disabling bluetooth on your phone. With a key fob you need to put it in a radio proof case (which you could do with your phone as well if you want).

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Lets see:

Model 75D: $75k
EAP: $5k
Paint: $1000
Interior: $3300

Total: $84,300

Tax and reg: $7300 Calif - on the low side for tax]

Total: $91650.

100D: $104500 or so.

Average: $98000 . . .

PS: There is no RWD option any longer- they're ALL AWD now,.

Assume you want to pretend the $7500 is a discount, then the average is $90-91k - a lot closer to $95k than $50k.

perhaps you should be looking at your nav gear in that pic....as you appear to have veered off course, pilot.

 

[AustinPowers]

If a crook wants my car badly enough to threaten me, I want to give them my phone, not my finger.

If a crook has the nerve to threaten me, it will be the last thing he will have done in his miserable life!

 

[AustinPowers]

It's wonderful not needing to carry keys, being able to give some installer or maintenance person a code you can deactivate, or being able to let in a friend or family member without needing to physically meet with them to hand them a physical object.

Wait, are you telling me you are letting unknown people inside your house while you are not there? That's quite some trust you show towards them.
And you don't like to meet your friends or family members in person any longer? Or is your house so immense that it would be such a nuisance to go to the door to open it and meet the person there? *shakeshead*

 

[Chewy3]

We've had a keypad lock on our house and rentals for years, and when we got a new place we immediately put them in again.

As for someone mentioning not having the power to move the lock, our system still uses a human to move the bolt in and out (the keypad just activates the ability for turning the latch to actually move the bolt vs it freely spinning) so the single 9V battery lasts >3 years (and that includes use at our airbnbs).

Wait, are you telling me you are letting unknown people inside your house while you are not there? That's quite some trust you show towards them.
And you don't like to meet your friends or family members in person any longer? Or is your house so immense that it would be such a nuisance to go to the door to open it and meet the person there? *shakeshead*

Darth Pierce mentioned 'rentals' and airbnb (its like Uber for Bed and Breakfast style room rentals). Its very common to have either a property manager or maintenance personnel you deal with consistently that have access to properties. Property managers for my properties have sets of keys - with a keypad lock like Darth, you can deactivate their key code, even easier than retrieving sets of keys should they no longer require them.

I have plenty of smart tech in my home, and should my HOA allow it, I plan on getting a smart lock so friend's and family are able to check in on it while i'm away without having to make 5 sets of keys. Or my postman can dropoff packages inside the door instead of out front. Or double check the door is locked while I'm out on a trip.

 

[AustinPowers]

Darth Pierce mentioned 'rentals' and airbnb (its like Uber for Bed and Breakfast style room rentals). Its very common to have either a property manager or maintenance personnel you deal with consistently that have access to properties.

Not quite, he wrote
"We've had a keypad lock on our house and rentals for years, and when we got a new place we immediately put them in again."

And he mentioned letting in family members. So he was definitely talking about his own house as well. Of course with rental properties such systems will come in handy, but I would never install something like this in my own home.