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How Secure is the Key Card?

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For non Tesla owning people fretting about Model 3 usability/features/etc... I'd like to share my thoughts after > 4.5 years of Model S ownership.

There will be a few "%$*@%!!&%" moments here and there, you can try to guess what they will be now, but you'll probably be wrong.
But, there will be far more "Wow.. I can't believe I lived with <insert strange ICE feature here> for all these years and never realized how lame that was" moments.

Enjoy the experience, and trust in your ability to adapt and learn no matter what age you are. You really will enjoy this car. Trust me.
 
You just think that since you grew up with keys, that they don't require a manual. I assure you in 20 years you will need to explain them to the youth of the day. And they will look at you like you grew antlers.

Yeah, right.
In 20 years there will be nothing that requires a physical key anymore. No doorlocks in your house, no locks on drawers, no locks with keys anywhere. Highly realistic. :rolleyes:
But I agree with you that the tendency of kids to become ever more incapable to cope with anything unless it has something to to with a smartphone WILL become ever more prominent... ;)

OT: And on a more serious note, I think that young people of today in general show an alarming tendency of becoming inadequate at many basic tasks. When I was young we used to learn to know stuff and to use that knowledge. Nowadays young people don't even know basic stuff anymore. And if they can't find the answer on their mobile (or even worse, if they don't have wifi *gasp*) they freak out. I see that every day during my commute on public transport. Sometimes it's funny, but on the whole it is shocking how stupid a lot of these youngsters have become. And to think that they should one day become the leaders/innovators/etc. of the future makes me shudder.

And I guarantee that dealerships and repair shops have a manual that explains how to re-pair key fobs - the only difference is that with the Model 3, Tesla allows owners to do it. As a bonus, you don't have to pay $400 for a new key fob if something happens to your current one.

Yes, but you will have to pay $600 for a new RFID card to Tesla, going by their pricing structure ;)

Just turn that feature off?

If that is possible, I will. Sometimes there are features that can't be turned off. Didn't know whether that was one of those.

This thread seems kind a nuts to me.

Does *anybody* use an RFID card key to access a parking lot/ building/ office / parking garage / etc...

If you are asking me: actually, no. Why would I?

Those things are handed out for everything (I have two in my wallet right now), and have been for DECADES.

Honestly? Where, and for what?
I remember the debacle over here when they tried to introduce RFID pay cards that in the end flopped because they were inconvenient and prone to failure, so no one used them and stores went back to only offering cash or normal credit/debit card payment.
 
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If that is possible, I will. Sometimes there are features that can't be turned off. Didn't know whether that was one of those.
.

I'm making an assumption that it will be like the proximity key fob in the S and X where it is enabled at the user's discretion. Almost every convenience feature is discretionary at the user level in Tesla's software. It is markedly different than how the legacy automakers approach things. As an alternative, I suppose you could also just not go through the car/phone key authorization process in the first place if you prefer the keycard.
 
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If you are asking me: actually, no. Why would I?
Perhaps things are different in Germany, but in the US almost every business, secure parking garage, etc.. is locked with electronic locks requiring a card key to access it. They are *very* common, and have literally been around for decades.

Honestly? Where, and for what?
I remember the debacle over here when they tried to introduce RFID pay cards that in the end flopped because they were inconvenient and prone to failure, so no one used them and stores went back to only offering cash or normal credit/debit card payment.

I have four of them right now:
1) Is my company badge that I am required to use when entering our facility
2) is our parking/building access badge which the owner of the building I work in requires (frustratingly different than my company badge)
3) is for our trailer (rv) storage facility.
4) is for the hotel I stayed at two nights ago but haven't thrown away yet.

Are seriously trying to tell me that you do not use RFID cards?
 
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Is it Okay to punch a small whole in the key card to hook it up to neck strap.

Yes, usually. One would need advice from Tesla, or possibly a strong light, to know where the actual smart part of the card is located. Can’t punch the hole through the chip or antenna or bad things happen.

Regarding RFID cards, our kids use them to make sure they get on/off the school bus at the right stop.
 
Perhaps things are different in Germany, but in the US almost every business, secure parking garage, etc.. is locked with electronic locks requiring a card key to access it. They are *very* common, and have literally been around for decades.

I have four of them right now:
1) Is my company badge that I am required to use when entering our facility
2) is our parking/building access badge which the owner of the building I work in requires (frustratingly different than my company badge)
3) is for our trailer (rv) storage facility.
4) is for the hotel I stayed at two nights ago but haven't thrown away yet.

Are seriously trying to tell me that you do not use RFID cards?

Seriously, yes, I don't have any and to my knowledge haver never used one in my whole life.

1) Our company has ID cards with magnet stripes like on debit cards that you pull through a scanner.
2) Every parking garage I have ever been to had paper tickets with magnet stripes. We don't have a parking garage here at work, and parking in the city (as well as rush hour traffic) is hideous anyway, which is why I use public transport. (And my ticket is as low-tech as it gets. Just a paper ticket valid three years with no tech whatsover. The valid until date and all other dates are just printed on the paper. And the conductor just does a visual check to see if everything is in order. Perhaps quaint, but simple and effective.
3) Don't know about storage "facilities" here. Most people have their stuff in their homes/basements/garages/on their grounds (which tend to be locked with physical keyes. Same with garden gates, garage doors, garden sheds etc.
4) All the hotels I have been to (yet) had physical keys or keycards with magnet stripes. Then again, I am not in hotels very often. On holidays we usually stay with friends i.e. in private residences, or in small places like B&B's or small hotels that most often don't have the latest tech anyway.

Germany seems to be behind in some areas when compared to the US. Otoh, I much prefer our infrastructure, which seems to be in a far better shape than most of what I had the chance to observe in the US. Many of your roads for example are in worse shape than what we had in the communist eastern part of Germany for many years. ;)

Regarding RFID cards, our kids use them to make sure they get on/off the school bus at the right stop.

Wow. We must really seem old fashioned in that respect. Our buses have buttons you press when you want to get out at the next stop. Another use-case where something like and RFID solution (requiring passengers to carry cards with them plus readers in the bus for just one task) seems unnecessarily complicated in contrast to a simple button.
 
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the trunk does not auto-open if that is what you mean. when the doors are unlocked, you can use the button near the license plate light to unlatch/open it (manually)


are we sure the hinge isn't on a spring?


my Audi A3 (sedan version) will "open" when unlocked, because the hinge is on a spring. pretty easy from a manufacturing standpoint, as opposed to motorizing it.
 
Wow, there seems to be a fair amount of 'get off my lawn' and 'damn kids these days' going on here. Life changes, sometimes things get better, sometimes worse, but you can guarantee what you did before won't be the same forever.

As to using your phone, some technical info from someone who works in the wireless industry. The smartphone uses BLE (bluetooth low energy) which is designed to be always on and has several different 'profiles' that can be used for various applications. It's range can be up too 100m/330ft. For the use of unlocking your car, I would expect they are using the proximity sensing or electronic leash profile. This allows a proximity monitor to detect whether a proximity reporter is within a close range. Physical proximity can be estimated using the radio receiver's RSSI value, although this does not have absolute calibration of distances.

For another application of this, I use this with my Mac to unlock it with my Apple Watch. It's a really convenient feature which means I avoid having to retype my password when I step away during the day (which is often). It is designed so that I have to be _really_ close and make a keypress to unlock. If I'm more than a couple of feet away, it doesn't work and prompts for a password. From this, I know that Tesla can design the smartphone unlock to not work in situations where you park close to a building you're in for example.

Now I'll let you go back to being grumpy about the 'new fangled things' you don't like on the M3 :rolleyes:
 
I just want to know..........(and I know no-one knows this yet...)


Will I be able to ever associate an NFC-capable Smartwatch?

(not an Apple Watch, and Android....but Apple, too, because I understand there are different brand preferences than my own in the world.)

:D

I don’t think so, but It seems like the Bluetooth functionality is more convenient in that case anyway. I’d prefer to have a Tesla App for the watch, which certainly seems doable.
 
are we sure the hinge isn't on a spring?


my Audi A3 (sedan version) will "open" when unlocked, because the hinge is on a spring. pretty easy from a manufacturing standpoint, as opposed to motorizing it.
That`s exactly what I meant. This is a feature I´ve had in all my cars for a good 12 years and really don`t want to miss anymore. Some kind of auto open for the trunk is a must for me, be it a proximity sensor, a spring or anything else.
 
Wow. We must really seem old fashioned in that respect. Our buses have buttons you press when you want to get out at the next stop. Another use-case where something like and RFID solution (requiring passengers to carry cards with them plus readers in the bus for just one task) seems unnecessarily complicated in contrast to a simple button.

The school bus RFID is for tracking purposes. Especially for the younger kids. The system knows which kids are on the bus, and alerts the driver if a kiddo doesn't get out at their spot. It also lets the parents tracks the kids, but only while they are on the bus.

I think it makes kids dumber. Sometimes getting on the wrong bus, riding it all the way back to the bus barn and then having to call the parents is a real learning experience :)
 
To maybe help a little with the "how far away will BLE work" questions......

My Audi BLE proximity fob will only work from less than 3 ft away for opening the door, and it knows which side of the car you're on.

Meaning, if you're my passenger and I'm standing within 3 ft of the door, you cannot unlock your door, since the key is "seen" on the driver's side (which I think is a setting).

If Audi has figured this out already, I'm hopeful Tesla has, too.
 
I just want to know..........(and I know no-one knows this yet...)


Will I be able to ever associate an NFC-capable Smartwatch?

(not an Apple Watch, and Android....but Apple, too, because I understand there are different brand preferences than my own in the world.)

:D
There is a third party app that works on an Apple Watch now. It uses a signal sent over the internet instead of NFC, but it does allow you to unlock the doors. With an LTE Apple Watch you don’t even need your phone with you. Not as convenient as just waving your watch at the door but still kind of cool.

Currently we don’t even know if the car is using NFC (NFC being a small subset of RFID, which is the only thing we know about the tech used in the key cards at the moment).
 
There is a third party app that works on an Apple Watch now. It uses a signal sent over the internet instead of NFC, but it does allow you to unlock the doors. With an LTE Apple Watch you don’t even need your phone with you. Not as convenient as just waving your watch at the door but still kind of cool.

Currently we don’t even know if the car is using NFC (NFC being a small subset of RFID, which is the only thing we know about the tech used in the key cards at the moment).


Either technology, NFC or BLE, would be fine with me.

Sometimes I like to go for a run on the Rail Trail, and now that I have a watch w/its own GPS onboard, I don't necessarily need my phone to track my run.

If I could just disable Bluetooth on the phone and not have to carry it on my run, that would be great.
 
Either technology, NFC or BLE, would be fine with me.

Sometimes I like to go for a run on the Rail Trail, and now that I have a watch w/its own GPS onboard, I don't necessarily need my phone to track my run.

If I could just disable Bluetooth on the phone and not have to carry it on my run, that would be great.

This is a good question. If you need the phone to unlock and you have a watch like this to use would you leave the phone in the car? This is kind of like the question someone asked with needing to leave her phone in the car because of her workplace policies. Not sure how exactly it would work where you want to use the phone mainly but in some situations you might want to use a watch or a phone.
 
This is a good question. If you need the phone to unlock and you have a watch like this to use would you leave the phone in the car? This is kind of like the question someone asked with needing to leave her phone in the car because of her workplace policies. Not sure how exactly it would work where you want to use the phone mainly but in some situations you might want to use a watch or a phone.


The manual says up to 3 phones can be paired w/the car. So in my scenario, I'll count the watch as a phone.

My phone, my watch, and my wife's phone.

But just as the person who has to leave the phone in the car all day, I'm going to assume I will have to turn bluetooth off, otherwise, the car will "see" the phone as being in the car, and as is usually a built-in safety in proximity keys, the car won't lock in that situation.

It's not a huge deal, but I'd like to have the option to pair my watch and leave the phone behind.
 
Yeah, right.
In 20 years there will be nothing that requires a physical key anymore. No doorlocks in your house, no locks on drawers, no locks with keys anywhere. Highly realistic. :rolleyes:
But I agree with you that the tendency of kids to become ever more incapable to cope with anything unless it has something to to with a smartphone WILL become ever more prominent... ;)

OT: And on a more serious note, I think that young people of today in general show an alarming tendency of becoming inadequate at many basic tasks. When I was young we used to learn to know stuff and to use that knowledge. Nowadays young people don't even know basic stuff anymore. And if they can't find the answer on their mobile (or even worse, if they don't have wifi *gasp*) they freak out. I see that every day during my commute on public transport. Sometimes it's funny, but on the whole it is shocking how stupid a lot of these youngsters have become. And to think that they should one day become the leaders/innovators/etc. of the future makes me shudder.



Yes, but you will have to pay $600 for a new RFID card to Tesla, going by their pricing structure ;)



If that is possible, I will. Sometimes there are features that can't be turned off. Didn't know whether that was one of those.



If you are asking me: actually, no. Why would I?



Honestly? Where, and for what?
I remember the debacle over here when they tried to introduce RFID pay cards that in the end flopped because they were inconvenient and prone to failure, so no one used them and stores went back to only offering cash or normal credit/debit card payment.

Thank goodness - someone else who is not a fan boy.

I don't own a Tesla, thought my spouse will shortly. Thus I think I have the right to have an opinion - and they truly are screwed up from the business perspective. They have zero appreciation for customer privacy and insist on business practices which border on the insane when looked at from the last 75 years of customer focussed management.

Tesla is the Borg. You will be assimilated.