How Tesla Charges Idle Fees?

[green1]

That's not stealing in any country I know of.. you pay your bill and you go home.

refusing to return the car is theft. They have no legal right to seize the car. As stated in my previous reply, I had a mechanic try that. it was sorted out very quickly, I drove away in the car, and they got nothing.

They can only legally bill for previously approved work. I don't approve that work.

 

[beths11]

Where did they clarify what uses I was allowed to use the supercharger for? Free for life means I could park there 24/7/365 if I wanted. The car is still connected and drawing power, even if only for the onboard computers and climate control.
I am not responsible for fixing their poor business decisions.

Now I'm not a jerk, I don't charge when I don't need it, and I don't leave my car at the charger longer than I have to, but I also don't interrupt my meal to walk 2 blocks back to the 8 stall charger that I'm the only occupant of, and I'm not going to start now.

If the most of the chargers are empty you don't have to walk back, not an issue. I believe this is for only full stations?

 

[JeffK]

refusing to return the car is theft. They have no legal right to seize the car. As stated in my previous reply, I had a mechanic try that. it was sorted out very quickly, I drove away in the car, and they got nothing.

They can only legally bill for previously approved work. I don't approve that work.

You approved it when you used a supercharger and knowingly parked for an extended period of time. You are paying for services rendered.

Canada has similar laws to the US. If you don't pay then a mechanic can take a lien on the car, get it seized, and donate it to a scrap yard if they see fit.

 

[green1]

If the most of the chargers are empty you don't have to walk back, not an issue. I believe this is for only full stations?

Rather irrelevant really. I won't be paying it at ANY station.

You approved it when you used a supercharger and knowingly parked for an extended period of time. You are paying for services rendered.

Not according to the documentation provided when I signed up for supercharging services with a term of "life" at the time of purchase. Retroactive changes to contracts are not valid in my (or really any) jurisdiction

Canada has similar laws to the US. If you don't pay then a mechanic can take a lien on the car, get it seized, and donate it to a scrap yard if they see fit.

Canada (and the US) also have consumer protection laws that preclude a mechanic from inserting random unapproved charges on a bill and then doing that. I've already been through that process once. I had no trouble keeping the vehicle, and the mechanic got nothing.

 

[JeffK]

Not according to the documentation provided when I signed up for supercharging services with a term of "life" at the time of purchase. Retroactive changes to contracts are not valid in my (or really any) jurisdiction

They aren't invoicing you for supercharging per your contract... they are invoicing you for parking. It's not retroactively changing your agreement.

If you park at a parking meter are you authorizing the charge?

 

[green1]

They aren't invoicing you for supercharging per your contract... they are invoicing you for parking. It's not retroactively changing your agreement.

please quote where Tesla has ever said (prior to my purchase) that there are ANY restrictions on free use of the supercharger for my vehicle. Without any restrictions placed on it at the time the agreement was made, there is no legal recourse for changing that now. They can't suddenly claim that parking there costs money when they told me initially that it was free to use that spot, forever.

If you park at a parking meter are you authorizing the charge?

I don't have an agreement with the city stating that it's free. I DO have an agreement with Tesla stating such. If I park somewhere, and they install a meter while I'm parked, then no, I didn't authorize the charge, and they can't charge me for using the meter that appeared after I started parking. parking at a meter is a transactional event, each instance is unique, and you re-negotiate the terms each time based on what the meter says at the time. Supercharging was a one-time purchase (included with the vehicle) with all the terms and conditions laid out at the time. Those terms and conditions continue until the contract expires (which was defined as "life")

 

[drklain]

So you are proposing that they will STEAL the car if I don't pay? that will go REALLY well for them! I already had one mechanic try a similar tactic. I'll give you a hint of how that went, I had the car back within an hour, and he didn't get anything in return.
The law (in my jurisdiction) is crystal clear on this, mechanics are only allowed to charge for services you have authorized. I don't authorize that one.

Suspect the law doesn't say what you think it does. A mechanic (or Tesla) is perfectly in their rights to file a lien against your title for unpaid services performed on your car. In the aviation world this happens a lot because the dollar values are so much higher...but people get a nasty surprise when they go to sell the vehicle and discover they don't have a clean title. Tesla is amending the terms of service with respect to free supercharging. They are still giving grandfathered customers (including you) free supercharging, but are now imposing a fee for the time you are there and not charging. They are issuing prompt, public notice abut the policy change (and likely the notice will also appear and have to be acknowledged in the car at some point). When you refuse to pay a bill, they will be well within their rights to go after you to pay it through debt collection process or placing a lien on your car until the debt is paid.

 

[drklain]

please quote where Tesla has ever said (prior to my purchase) that there are ANY restrictions on free use of the supercharger for my vehicle. Without any restrictions placed on it at the time the agreement was made, there is no legal recourse for changing that now. They can't suddenly claim that parking there costs money when they told me initially that it was free to use that spot, forever.

Actually, you are 100% wrong on this. Cases where things are offered free or for life can always be amended (and frequently are). To avoid losing in court when people fight it, the company merely has to prove that they are still complying with the original promise despite any amendments to the deal. Unless you have something in writing in your contract which states "free supercharging for life without limitation or restriction" (emphasis mine), they aren't violating a promise made. Can you quote exactly where the promise made to you is (you say you have it well documented) and exactly what it says?

 

[rolson1011]

Now I'm not a jerk,.

You may not be, but you sure sound like one.

 

[green1]

Suspect the law doesn't say what you think it does.

It does, and I've proven it in the past.

A mechanic (or Tesla) is perfectly in their rights to file a lien against your title for unpaid services performed on your car.

Only if I approve the work. I don't approve this "work" (which incidently, wouldn't likely apply for such a lien anyway as it isn't work done on your car in any way, or even related at all to the service visit)

Tesla is amending the terms of service with respect to free supercharging.

And that right there is the whole point. You can't amend a contract after it's signed. There is no possible legal way to do so. All they can do is change future ones, they can't change ones already agreed to.

When you refuse to pay a bill, they will be well within their rights to go after you to pay it through debt collection process or placing a lien on your car until the debt is paid.

Ok, I am advising you right now that any further posting on this site will result in you owing me $1000 per post. If you don't pay, I am well within my rights to go after you to pay it through debt collection process or placing a lien on your car until the dept is paid.
I advised you, therefore it's legal right? According to you, there's no requirement in law that you accept the charge, I can just do it wholey at my discretion.

 

[green1]

the company merely has to prove that they are still complying with the original promise despite any amendments to the deal.

And that's the crux. I can prove what the original promise was, and it does not include fees of any form. I have the documentation of what was promised, and it is quite clear that there are no limits.

 

[JeffK]

that there are ANY restrictions on free use of the supercharger for my vehicle. Without any restrictions placed on it at the time the agreement was made, there is no legal recourse for changing that now. They can't suddenly claim that parking there costs money when they told me initially that it was free to use that spot, forever.

There are not any restrictions on charging.... there are restrictions on parking while not charging. Nothing in your contract would change.

 

[green1]

There are not any restrictions on charging.... there are restrictions on parking while not charging. Nothing in your contract would change.

Contract says I have free use of the superchargers with this car. If I want to use them as a decorative accessory to my parked Tesla, that's just fine. It doesn't say free "while charging".

 

[JeffK]

Contract says I have free use of the superchargers with this car. If I want to use them as a decorative accessory to my parked Tesla, that's just fine. It doesn't say free "while charging".

Have you considered your very own column on Seeking Alpha?

 

[drklain]

Well said JeffK. At this point, I just look forward to watching what the court cases say... I'd also love to see Green1's contract (or anyone's contract) for a Tesla where it stipulates the free supercharging for life. He keeps saying he has the written proof but isn't showing it or pointing us to where we can see it.

I'm also rejecting Green1's charging me $1000/per post since he doesn't own teslamotorsclub.com nor have the legal authority to charge me for services he is not providing.

 

[Tupelo]

Oh my Lord, not this whole argument again...

The mantra of the moochers and freeloaders has always been "free for life!!" means that Tesla can never impose any restrictions whatever on the service. As a lawyer of 35 years I'd wager a lot of money that they're wrong and any court challenge would be summarily dismissed. Free for Life means two things and two things only: 1. "free" means no charge to use the Supercharger and, 2. "for life" means there will be no charge for Supercharging for the life of the car. Tesla can legally and fully fulfill this promise and still:

1. Limit the days of the week that some/all Superchargers are open.
2. Limit the hours of the day that some/all Superchargers are open.
3. Limit the amount off time one can spend at some/all Superchargers on any one visit.
4. Limit the amount of time one can park at a Supercharger when not actually charging (and impose appropriate charges to enforce this restriction)
5. Close / remove Superchargers.
6. Etc...

I'm sure Tesla would prefer not to do those kinds of things, but as long as it provides a Supercharging service (i.e., not extended non-charging parking privileges) at no cost to me for the life of my car, it can still manage its own Supercharger network in whatever way it sees fit. This is easy folks - parking and charging are two different things. No court or judge is going to have trouble with that distinction.

 

[green1]

Argue how you want. Feel free to pay the fee. I won't pay, and there's nothing Tesla can, or will, do about it.

 

[juice15e]

They can't suddenly claim that parking there costs money when they told me initially that it was free to use that spot, forever.


I don't have an agreement with the city stating that it's free. I DO have an agreement with Tesla stating such. If I park somewhere, and they install a meter while I'm parked, then no, I didn't authorize the charge, and they can't charge me for using the meter that appeared after I started parking. parking at a meter is a transactional event, each instance is unique, and you re-negotiate the terms each time based on what the meter says at the time. Supercharging was a one-time purchase (included with the vehicle) with all the terms and conditions laid out at the time. Those terms and conditions continue until the contract expires (which was defined as "life")

Please show us the agreement you have with Tesla that states that "it was free to use that spot, forever".

This is a frivolous argument. Tesla marketed that you can supercharge (I.E. - Actively charging) for free. They did not say you can park for free. Once your car says charging complete you are no longer reasonably charging anymore. I actually went through my ownership documents and I can't find anything that says I'm even entitled to free supercharging for life. I only see that terminology on the website blogs.

Also - in regard to paying your bill at the service center... they probably won't do any work on your car until you pay your bill. I don't see them holding people's cars hostage, but they also have no obligation to service your vehicle and can refuse to service it until you pay your bills.

 

[green1]

Also - in regard to paying your bill at the service center... they probably won't do any work on your car until you pay your bill. I don't see them holding people's cars hostage, but they also have no obligation to service your vehicle and can refuse to service it until you pay your bills.

Until the end of the warranty, I DO have an agreement with them that they must do all warranty work. So they can't refuse that one.
I also have pre-purchased the service plan, so they can't refuse that one.
The only thing they could possibly do is refuse non-warranty, non-service plan, work, but with a 4 year bumper to bumper warranty, that doesn't leave much they can avoid so far.

Additionally, there is a legal argument to be made that if they won't let anyone else service it, that they must, but I don't think I'll ever need to pursue that one.

 

[TexasEV]

Contract says I have free use of the superchargers with this car. If I want to use them as a decorative accessory to my parked Tesla, that's just fine. It doesn't say free "while charging".

Just curious, did you flunk "plays well with others" in kindergarten?