How Tesla Will Fall - Ben Sullins

[OrthoSurg]

@jonquiljo, I suggest you take a look at the new Mercedes EQS. That's going to be my next EV for sure.

I thought they were selling them for a +120k market adjustment price. Look like a really nice car. The interior is pristine. However the infotainment software is lagging as per MQBHD review. Didn’t try it myself.

 

[tldickerson]

The dealer mark-up for the 580 was 50K but I've heard that will come down soon and that some back East had no mark-up.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Other EV manufacturers started paying Ben to hype up their competing EV's, so now he actively slanders Tesla in order to prop up others who butter his bread. Also Tesla shut down their referral program which Ben was profiting greatly from.

In short, his personal goals now benefit from Tesla FUD where as he used to benefit greatly from hyping Tesla up, so he's migrated his content more towards anti-Tesla stuff.

When you follow the money many strange behaviors become very clear. In other words, he's an incredibly selfish shill.

Nothing more selfish than trying to make money, right? How much are other manufacturers paying him? Is this illegal?

 

[jonquiljo]

@jonquiljo, I suggest you take a look at the new Mercedes EQS. That's going to be my next EV for sure.

Thanks good idea. I really get annoyed by dealer mark-up, but that seems to be the norm these days. The prices is OK - just a question if cars are available this year.

 

[Nolakai]

You can have the best of both worlds. The greenest car you can buy... is a used one. Doesn't matter if its EV or gas. That is worlds better than ordering
a new one/buying a new one. Footprint is already there.
Far too often I see people around here talking about trading in their 2-3-4 year old Tesla for the latest and greatest. They don't -need- a cybertruck, but they -want- one. Yikes.
You're(generically, not you personally) better off buying a 30-40mpg Toyota and driving the wheels off of it for a decade.

Not when it comes to the true emissions. That’s the rub for ICE vehicles. Gas production is ongoing and continuous. The exploring, extracting, refining, processing, transporting, and burning just goes on and on. That 10-year old car demands the same ongoing extraction process throughout its entire life and the air we all breathe continues to be pumped full of noxious gases along the way. At least the battery horribleness is generally a one-shot affair per car. And yes, most people are not charging their EVs with 100% renewables. Still it’s significantly less energy that a gas car, and that’s true even though we exclude the energy it takes to do that ongoing exploration-extraction etc process for gas when we make comparisons. All along the gas-making process, energy is consumed at incredibly high rates. I’ve yet to see a comparison that includes all of that. How much energy does the gas industry use just finding new places to drill? Lobbying for access to those places? Actually doing the extraction (including transporting engineers and other workers, as well as equipment)? Moving the crude to refineries? Running the refineries? Transporting the gas to gas stations? Etc etc? Imagine!

I’ve found it very interesting how much more attuned I am to how much energy it actually takes to run a car since driving an electric. Pumping gas is deceiving. All of the real costs are hidden from the consumer. You can mindlessly fill up in minutes and the tail pipe spews the poison out the other end (and generally invisibly). The reality of the environmental degradation is hidden from us completely when we drive ICEs.

 

[roblab]

And I'd like to know just who Ben Sullins is. Did he ever build a car company from scratch? Does he even plan to? Could he even start to build something that could go 150 mph on quiet power? I charge my car with 66 solar panels, which I put into 20 kwh batteries. Can his gas car use solar?

 

[roblab]

Tesla needs to focus on EVs, improving communication, build quality, adding more SCs, adding more qualified staff, improving the supply chain (especially for repairs), adding more superchargers, add more EV vehicles, shorten remodel cycles, etc.


THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT TESLA IS DOING. Except they do not need more vehicle types other than the Cyber pickup truck, and they certainly don't need the mindless building of "NEW!!!" models every year. I bought my car because it's electric, not because it competes with Ford or GM or Toyota, all of which are STUCK in making new models every year with the same old weak, polluting gas engines. I charge my car off of Solar, another thing gas cars can't do. And my plain jane sedan can out accelerate those cars, with less noise and less pollution, and hit a higher top speed, Tesla has been adding superchargers from day one, and I ought to know, as I was here when there was only ONE. Now there are hundreds, plus I can charge in my garage at night for about a fourth of the cost per mile of gas, not even counting I don't need maintenance like oil and filter changes. There is absolutely no comparison between Teslas and gas cars other than they both have four wheels. Mine is even four wheel drive.

 

[Barklikeadog]

And I'd like to know just who Ben Sullins is. Did he ever build a car company from scratch? Does he even plan to? Could he even start to build something that could go 150 mph on quiet power? I charge my car with 66 solar panels, which I put into 20 kwh batteries. Can his gas car use solar?

Are you suggesting that you cannot have an opinion on an auto manufacturer unless you manufacture autos yourself?

 

[Mengy]

Nothing more selfish than trying to make money, right? How much are other manufacturers paying him? Is this illegal?

No it's not illegal, paid sponsorships are common on YouTube and in media. Ben's switcheroo simply paints who he truly is and how little credibility he actually has. Opinions which can be easily bought aren't worth much in the end.

 

[Barklikeadog]

No it's not illegal, paid sponsorships are common on YouTube and in media. Ben's switcheroo simply paints who he truly is and how little credibility he actually has. Opinions which can be easily bought aren't worth much in the end.

Looks like this guy is a big fan of all things EV, solar, powerwall, etc etc. You must be one of those Tesla guys who used to say 'death to ice!!' but anytime
a new EV comes out that -isn't- a Tesla... it's garbage, it's horrible... Someone always chimes in with 'well, greater EV adoption is a good thing' lol.
Any critique of your magical cars is not an attack, Elon.

 

[Darren Donovan]

When you are selling over the horizon products and services you need to create a vision that others can get excited about

In other words, vaporware.

 

[Bouba]

In other words, vaporware.

well, everyone sells a dream...for example....a Rolls Royce will give you class (it doesn’t)...an Audi makes you a great driver (it doesn’t)...an EV makes you an environmentalist (yes and no)...they are all images, using the cologne that Johnny Depp advertises won’t have the same effect on the ladies as he has even if he had BO...we allow ourselves to be influenced..it’s a freewill kind of thing that we are complicit with those who want our money

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Not when it comes to the true emissions. That’s the rub for ICE vehicles. Gas production is ongoing and continuous. The exploring, extracting, refining, processing, transporting, and burning just goes on and on. That 10-year old car demands the same ongoing extraction process throughout its entire life and the air we all breathe continues to be pumped full of noxious gases along the way. At least the battery horribleness is generally a one-shot affair per car. And yes, most people are not charging their EVs with 100% renewables. Still it’s significantly less energy that a gas car, and that’s true even though we exclude the energy it takes to do that ongoing exploration-extraction etc process for gas when we make comparisons. All along the gas-making process, energy is consumed at incredibly high rates. I’ve yet to see a comparison that includes all of that. How much energy does the gas industry use just finding new places to drill? Lobbying for access to those places? Actually doing the extraction (including transporting engineers and other workers, as well as equipment)? Moving the crude to refineries? Running the refineries? Transporting the gas to gas stations? Etc etc? Imagine!

I’ve found it very interesting how much more attuned I am to how much energy it actually takes to run a car since driving an electric. Pumping gas is deceiving. All of the real costs are hidden from the consumer. You can mindlessly fill up in minutes and the tail pipe spews the poison out the other end (and generally invisibly). The reality of the environmental degradation is hidden from us completely when we drive ICEs.

I have a mental exercise that helps to understand the scale of fuel use in gasoline vehicles, and how it's easier to fail to appreciate it.

Let's say there's a 40mpg gasoline vehicle, which in the USA would be considered to be efficient. The average mpg of a vehicle in the USA is much lower.
Say the vehicle is driven 10,000 miles per year, which is below the US average. It will use 250 gallons per year.
Say the vehicle is driven for 10 years, which is below the average age of a registered vehicle, in the USA. (2021 12.1 years). It will use 2500 gallons over 10 years.
A gallon of gas weighs about 6 pounds.
Each year vehicle is driven, it will use 1,500 pounds of gasoline.
After 10 years of driving it will use 15,000 pounds of gasoline.
And that is for a vehicle of above average efficiency driven a below-average number of miles.
In the USA, a 2020 vehicle of average efficiency driven an average number of miles for the average age would have use about 3,370 pounds of gasoline per year, or 40,700 pounds of gasoline when it reached the average age.

Now answer the following questions:
- In your current ICEVs/last ICEV you owned, how big is/was the fuel tank? Not how many gallons. The dimensions.
- At your regular gas station, how big are the underground fuel storage tanks? Not how many gallons. The dimensions.

It's all hidden from normal view. You don't see the gas station tanks, you don't see the gas as it's pumped, you don't see the fuel tank and it's spread over many fill-ups.

 

[Mengy]

Looks like this guy is a big fan of all things EV, solar, powerwall, etc etc. You must be one of those Tesla guys who used to say 'death to ice!!' but anytime
a new EV comes out that -isn't- a Tesla... it's garbage, it's horrible... Someone always chimes in with 'well, greater EV adoption is a good thing' lol.
Any critique of your magical cars is not an attack, Elon.

That's quite a leap for you to make about me, do you always make such massive assumptions about people?

The timing of Ben's change in attitude was very clear and apparent, it was painfully obvious why he turned on Tesla. How does my acknowledging that make me hate other EV's?

 

[Barklikeadog]

That's quite a leap for you to make about me, do you always make such massive assumptions about people?

The timing of Ben's change in attitude was very clear and apparent, it was painfully obvious why he turned on Tesla. How does my acknowledging that make me hate other EV's?

Present your proof, please.

 

[Nolakai]

I have a mental exercise that helps to understand the scale of fuel use in gasoline vehicles, and how it's easier to fail to appreciate it.

Let's say there's a 40mpg gasoline vehicle, which in the USA would be considered to be efficient. The average mpg of a vehicle in the USA is much lower.
Say the vehicle is driven 10,000 miles per year, which is below the US average. It will use 250 gallons per year.
Say the vehicle is driven for 10 years, which is below the average age of a registered vehicle, in the USA. (2021 12.1 years). It will use 2500 gallons over 10 years.
A gallon of gas weighs about 6 pounds.
Each year vehicle is driven, it will use 1,500 pounds of gasoline.
After 10 years of driving it will use 15,000 pounds of gasoline.
And that is for a vehicle of above average efficiency driven a below-average number of miles.
In the USA, a 2020 vehicle of average efficiency driven an average number of miles for the average age would have use about 3,370 pounds of gasoline per year, or 40,700 pounds of gasoline when it reached the average age.

Now answer the following questions:
- In your current ICEVs/last ICEV you owned, how big is/was the fuel tank? Not how many gallons. The dimensions.
- At your regular gas station, how big are the underground fuel storage tanks? Not how many gallons. The dimensions.

It's all hidden from normal view. You don't see the gas station tanks, you don't see the gas as it's pumped, you don't see the fuel tank and it's spread over many fill-ups.

Wow. Yes, that's a great way to visualize it and feel its weight. We have some solar panels and it's been interesting to track the energy we've been producing and how much we need to 'fill' up our Tesla. I think I would have been more cautious about driving so much in our previous ICEs if I'd had a better conceptual understanding of just how much fuel they use and how much the burning of it all spews into the atmosphere.

 

[Darren Donovan]

In other words, vaporware.

well, everyone sells a dream...for example....a Rolls Royce will give you class (it doesn’t)...an Audi makes you a great driver (it doesn’t)...an EV makes you an environmentalist (yes and no)...they are all images, using the cologne that Johnny Depp advertises won’t have the same effect on the ladies as he has even if he had BO...we allow ourselves to be influenced..it’s a freewill kind of thing that we are complicit with those who want our money

Well, thinking that you have the charisma of Johnny Depp by using his cologne is a far, far cry from thinking that you actually have "full self driving" in your car. In the former scenario, the worst that can happen is the pretty girl tell you to beat it. In the latter, you can kill yourself and/or other motorists if you believe that your car is capable of "full self driving".

 

[patrick42h]

In other words, vaporware.

well, everyone sells a dream...for example....a Rolls Royce will give you class (it doesn’t)...an Audi makes you a great driver (it doesn’t)...an EV makes you an environmentalist (yes and no)...they are all images, using the cologne that Johnny Depp advertises won’t have the same effect on the ladies as he has even if he had BO...we allow ourselves to be influenced..it’s a freewill kind of thing that we are complicit with those who want our money

I think there is a difference between having aspirations in your advertising and having aspirations in finishing a software suite that has been promised for six years.

 

[Bouba]

I think there is a difference between having aspirations in your advertising and having aspirations in finishing a software suite that has been promised for six years.

I think that the low uptake of FSD plus the large uptake of Beta testers shows that it is only enthusiasts and those who drink the koolaide who get it...in both senses

 

[jonquiljo]

Regardless of the car that Tesla makes - there are quite a few people that just want to drive that car. They don't need or want software to do it. So we have two goals/aspirations/dreams that are being wrapped up in one vehicle.

Is this necessary? Can't Elon Musk just make FSD an option instead of identifying it as a major feature of Tesla cars? Making as many Teslas as Tesla has done is one big accomplishment. No one can deny that. Making Tesla synonymous with FSD is really selling the car short.

Finally, Elon Must needs to stop trash talking in public. He is turning Tesla into the "Elon Musk show", which also puts a cloud over the cars which need to be recognized as accomplishments. See ... Elon Musk accuses the SEC of illegally leaking details of its Tesla investigation

Many people are starting to see Teslas as "Elon Musk cars" and not cars that beat all the legacy carmakers to the EV market. A lot of people also cannot separate FSD from the Tesla itself (until they own one). What they don't realize is that there is a whole lot more to a Tesla than FSD.