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How to deal with anti-EV biased friends and their propaganda?

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dflye

S Sig Perf 414, VIN 814
Oct 7, 2011
565
6
Raleigh, NC
So a former coworker and casual acquaintance on FB posted some taunting message deriding the sales of EVs when compared to ICE sales.

Her bias was obvious, her facts were distorted; and yet, I was compelled to respond!

Cindy Kearns said:
Snicker, snort ... Huffington Post tries once again to show how people are flocking to buy electric cars. Since January, sales are at 41,447; total # of cars sold in America in April alone: 51 million. Yeah .. people just can't wait to get their hands on an electric car knowing that the EPA restrictions on coal is at the highest level in history. No coal; no electricity (yes, I know; wind power (you know the ones that are killing eagles and endangered birds at the speed of light (no pun intended) and water power are still in place). But, without coal, the cost of electricity is going to skyrocket (oh wait; it already it!!). Good luck w/those electric cars

Electric Car Sales Have Doubled, Thanks To High Gas Prices
April 2013 Car Sales: Strength In Numbers

To which I replied:
Dan Flye said:
Cindy, why all the derision of BEVs?

Regardless of the source of energy used to provide the electricity to power a BEV (those that only have a battery power source, no gas engine as a backup, such as a Leaf or Tesla), it is more efficient than a gas burning vehicle (which mostly produces heat as a by-product of an inefficient propulsion technology)

Why the love for coal over renewable energy, which is gradually becoming a larger percentage provider of power in the US? Coal won't last forever, but pretty sure the sun and rivers will outlast our coal supply.

Oh, as far as powering electric cars (where our family does in fact own one), we had solar panels installed on our house that provide enough power for the car and we resell the excess power back to the power company.

Finally, while you stated 51M, the article states 15M (using some fuzzy math called "seasonally adjusted annual rate", try adding up the numbers by manufacturer in the article and see how close you get to 15M, let alone 51M!)
Other than ignoring this type of attack, which I was unable to do, how can one deal with such tripe on a continual basis without a mental breakdown?!?
 
Well, they live in the DC area, and we didn't get a chance to hook up with them earlier this month when we road tripped from Raleigh to Boston and back using mostly Superchargers and Tesla store chargers.

Although after Cindy being a terrified passenger in my Subaru Impreza when I drove her from the office to her hotel many years ago when she was down here on travel (we worked for the same company, her out of DC, me out of Raleigh), she has pretty much sworn off of ever being a passenger in any car I drive. So maybe I can get her behind the wheel, or have wife drive the car, hmm....
 
15 millon is the annualized sales rate for U.S. vehicles. There were 1.3 million vehicles sold in the U.S. in April.
U.S. sales projected to rise 7% as annual rate stays above 15M

In a hypothetical scenario without coal, electricity will be provided by natural gas, nuclear, hydro, geothermal, wind, solar, and biomass. Coal has gone from fueling 52.8% of U.S. electricity in 1997 to 45.0% in 2009 to 37% in 2012. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_in_the_United_States#cite_note-eia.doe.gov-1
 
Other than ignoring this type of attack, which I was unable to do, how can one deal with such tripe on a continual basis without a mental breakdown?!?

Patience is the most important step. Then take the time to refute every point and show your evidence for those other people that might be watching the exchange but are not participating.

If someone says the cars are slow you post the videos of the Model S beating the M5, Viper SRT10, and the Corvette. If someone complains about the "subsidy" you point out that the program was created by the Bush administration to promote American car technology, that the money is not the governments but your own money that you worked hard for and are happy that you aren't giving to the government to spend wastefully. When did giving the government less taxes become a bad thing? When they complain about too much electricity, you point out that charging at night helps the grid. You can also point out that, at least, it is American energy, not imported oil.

Good luck. And patience, young jedi.... :)
 
And nobody is blindly by liberal dogma, thankfully.
[1] The thread is about ”anti-EV friends and their propaganda”. Surely you must agree that people and institutions like Limbaugh, all but one (Huntsman) of the GOP Presidential Candidates in the latest presidential election, FOX News, the Heartland Institute et. al. are clearly in the wrong on BEV’s. Just as they are clearly in the wrong about the number one reason for BEV’s (IMHO): Our Environment.

[2] Interestingly though IMO they seem to often hold good positions on foreign policy towards many of the oil producing undemocratic regimes. But for some reason that just does not seem to factor into their BEV stance…

Now that [1] IMO is the conservative dogma this thread is about. And I note that you aren't arguing the merits of that.

So, what liberal "dogma" specifically are you pointing at?

Also: Didn’t you just put up solar panels on your roof? Was there really no environmental concern whatsoever behind that decision?

(Yes, I might be swinging my Jedi light saber a little :cool:/:eek:, but IMHO these are very important issues.)
 
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I think it's important to point out that the environment is not the primary reason that people are buying a Tesla. It's simply a fantastic automobile that's cheap to fuel and inexpensive to maintain. The environmental benefits are secondary and will only be fully realized when the power grid rids itself of fossil fuel, which will happen eventually.

Economics tends to be the driver of technological change. The upcoming BEV landslide will be mostly about saving money.
 
I think it's important to point out that the environment is not the primary reason that people are buying a Tesla. It's simply a fantastic automobile that's cheap to fuel and inexpensive to maintain. The environmental benefits are secondary and will only be fully realized when the power grid rids itself of fossil fuel, which will happen eventually.

Economics tends to be the driver of technological change. The upcoming BEV landslide will be mostly about saving money.
I guess ultimately it boils down to whatever each individual values the most: Their personal wealth, or the environment they and everyone else on the planet share (including their own kids and grandchildren if they have them).

When it comes to the Model S (and the Roadster as well for that matter), we are after all talking about people with relatively considerable financial resources…
 
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The one thing that resonates here with even the most skeptical is the need to reduce particulate emissions in cities. Even the most dense understand how moving tailpipe emissions to a rural power plant can help that. In the summer, TCEQ issues air quality warnings for the largest Texas counties on most days, so there's good awareness.

Since we're not primarily a coal state, many also get that our grid mostly comes from locally-produced natural gas, plus nuclear & wind and like that. They'd probably rather vehicles powered by CNG, but that infrastructure only exists for fleet vehicles here. We hit a record in May -- wind contributed 28% of the total ERCOT load and that got some good press coverage and raised awareness as well.
 
Everybody has different motivations for why they bought their Tesla Model S. Here are mine, in order:

1. High performance
2. Supporting Elon Musk's vision of the future
3. Advanced technology and features
4. Environmental concerns
5. Annoying conservatives by having a practical, high-performance EV
 
Everybody has different motivations for why they bought their Tesla Model S. Here are mine, in order:

2. Supporting Elon Musk's vision of the future
4. Environmental concerns
And here’s one example of when Elon expressed his vision of the future. From 05-25-2013, 09:16 PM in this thread: Elon Musk - Page 55

Elon Musk’s latest tweets on Climate Change:

elon tweets.png


Source:

Elon Musk (elonmusk) on Twitter

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Had some trouble getting the picture of Elon's tweets to show up, so instead I uploaded the original picture of those tweets from my hard drive.
 
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FWIW, I have not received one negative comment or remark. In fact, some people seem to be even more thrilled than I am (if that's possible). The closest thing to a "negative" comment I've received was along the lines of "it's a great car if you're willing to deal with the compromises". This got me to thinking and I realized that I actually had more "compromises" with my old ICE than I do with the Model S when you add everything up.
 
Surely you must agree that ...
No matter what you put for the rest of the sentence, by definition I don't agree by default.

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IMO is the conservative dogma this thread is about.
You're welcome to your opinion but I don't draw politics out of the thread title. Political bucketing and assumptions usually hamper a useful debate rather than inform it.

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And I note that you aren't arguing the merits of that.
I wasn't "arguing" anything. I was pointing out what I saw as an unproductive jab that doesn't really help the discussion.

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So, what liberal "dogma" specifically are you pointing at?
If you can't find printed and internet examples of this regarding the people and groups you mention in your "[1]" then you're not looking hard enough. It happens on both sides of the fence (and in Independent quarters) and it's counterproductive for everyone.

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Also: Didn’t you just put up solar panels on your roof? Was there really no environmental concern whatsoever behind that decision?
Perhaps related but off-topic, IMO. Solar power supply isn't required for EVs to be compelling or worthwhile. As has been stated many times on this forum.

To answer your question, I have many reasons why I do many things. Not all of them rational. Not all of them explainable without cave drawings. [Ask Discoducky on the last two. ;)] It's a bit uncomfortable that you like to make assumptions about why other people think and do what they do so aggressively. It makes me not interested in sharing information at all, frankly.

Again this aligns with my earlier point. Your prior post came across as counterproductive and confrontational, which is a great way to kill off an interesting discussion. This comment has a similar effect.

Take from that what you will.