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How to deal with anti-EV biased friends and their propaganda?

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by dflye, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. dflye

    dflye S Sig Perf 414, VIN 814

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    So a former coworker and casual acquaintance on FB posted some taunting message deriding the sales of EVs when compared to ICE sales.

    Her bias was obvious, her facts were distorted; and yet, I was compelled to respond!

    To which I replied:
    Other than ignoring this type of attack, which I was unable to do, how can one deal with such tripe on a continual basis without a mental breakdown?!?
     
  2. pgiralt

    pgiralt Active Member

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    Take them for a spin in your MS. That should do the trick :)
     
  3. dflye

    dflye S Sig Perf 414, VIN 814

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    Well, they live in the DC area, and we didn't get a chance to hook up with them earlier this month when we road tripped from Raleigh to Boston and back using mostly Superchargers and Tesla store chargers.

    Although after Cindy being a terrified passenger in my Subaru Impreza when I drove her from the office to her hotel many years ago when she was down here on travel (we worked for the same company, her out of DC, me out of Raleigh), she has pretty much sworn off of ever being a passenger in any car I drive. So maybe I can get her behind the wheel, or have wife drive the car, hmm....
     
  4. CalDreamin

    CalDreamin Member

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    15 millon is the annualized sales rate for U.S. vehicles. There were 1.3 million vehicles sold in the U.S. in April.
    U.S. sales projected to rise 7% as annual rate stays above 15M

    In a hypothetical scenario without coal, electricity will be provided by natural gas, nuclear, hydro, geothermal, wind, solar, and biomass. Coal has gone from fueling 52.8% of U.S. electricity in 1997 to 45.0% in 2009 to 37% in 2012.
     
  5. Beavis

    Beavis Signature 991

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    Why do we care what people think? I stopped trying to convert those that can't be converted.
     
  6. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    Patience is the most important step. Then take the time to refute every point and show your evidence for those other people that might be watching the exchange but are not participating.

    If someone says the cars are slow you post the videos of the Model S beating the M5, Viper SRT10, and the Corvette. If someone complains about the "subsidy" you point out that the program was created by the Bush administration to promote American car technology, that the money is not the governments but your own money that you worked hard for and are happy that you aren't giving to the government to spend wastefully. When did giving the government less taxes become a bad thing? When they complain about too much electricity, you point out that charging at night helps the grid. You can also point out that, at least, it is American energy, not imported oil.

    Good luck. And patience, young jedi.... :)
     
  7. dm33

    dm33 Member

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    Being in Raleigh myself, I find too many people blinded by conservative dogma. Anything pro environment has been painted as bad. I've never successfully reasoned with such people and am frankly somewhat scared to.
     
  8. jeffhre

    jeffhre Member

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    Yes. Fear is debilitating.
     
  9. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    #9 brianman, Jul 26, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
    And nobody is blinded by liberal dogma, thankfully.
     
  10. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    #10 SwedishAdvocate, Jul 26, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
    [1] The thread is about ”anti-EV friends and their propaganda”. Surely you must agree that people and institutions like Limbaugh, all but one (Huntsman) of the GOP Presidential Candidates in the latest presidential election, FOX News, the Heartland Institute et. al. are clearly in the wrong on BEV’s. Just as they are clearly in the wrong about the number one reason for BEV’s (IMHO): Our Environment.

    [2] Interestingly though IMO they seem to often hold good positions on foreign policy towards many of the oil producing undemocratic regimes. But for some reason that just does not seem to factor into their BEV stance…

    Now that [1] IMO is the conservative dogma this thread is about. And I note that you aren't arguing the merits of that.

    So, what liberal "dogma" specifically are you pointing at?

    Also: Didn’t you just put up solar panels on your roof? Was there really no environmental concern whatsoever behind that decision?

    (Yes, I might be swinging my Jedi light saber a little :cool:/:eek:, but IMHO these are very important issues.)
     
  11. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

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    I think it's important to point out that the environment is not the primary reason that people are buying a Tesla. It's simply a fantastic automobile that's cheap to fuel and inexpensive to maintain. The environmental benefits are secondary and will only be fully realized when the power grid rids itself of fossil fuel, which will happen eventually.

    Economics tends to be the driver of technological change. The upcoming BEV landslide will be mostly about saving money.
     
  12. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    #12 SwedishAdvocate, Jul 26, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
    I guess ultimately it boils down to whatever each individual values the most: Their personal wealth, or the environment they and everyone else on the planet share (including their own kids and grandchildren if they have them).

    When it comes to the Model S (and the Roadster as well for that matter), we are after all talking about people with relatively considerable financial resources…
     
  13. bollar

    bollar Disgruntled Member

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    The one thing that resonates here with even the most skeptical is the need to reduce particulate emissions in cities. Even the most dense understand how moving tailpipe emissions to a rural power plant can help that. In the summer, TCEQ issues air quality warnings for the largest Texas counties on most days, so there's good awareness.

    Since we're not primarily a coal state, many also get that our grid mostly comes from locally-produced natural gas, plus nuclear & wind and like that. They'd probably rather vehicles powered by CNG, but that infrastructure only exists for fleet vehicles here. We hit a record in May -- wind contributed 28% of the total ERCOT load and that got some good press coverage and raised awareness as well.
     
  14. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    No you are "Enlightened" by liberal dogma. Get your terminology straight! :biggrin:
     
  15. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. It was certainly not my primary consideration, but for those aghast at this sentiment, remember that even though I may not have bought it for environmental considerations, it still is a clean vehicle. Everyone wins.
     
  16. GlennAlanBerry

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    Everybody has different motivations for why they bought their Tesla Model S. Here are mine, in order:

    1. High performance
    2. Supporting Elon Musk's vision of the future
    3. Advanced technology and features
    4. Environmental concerns
    5. Annoying conservatives by having a practical, high-performance EV
     
  17. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    How to deal with anti-EV biased friends?

    Get new friends! :tongue:
     
  18. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    #18 SwedishAdvocate, Jul 26, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
    And here’s one example of when Elon expressed his vision of the future. From 05-25-2013, 09:16 PM in this thread: Elon Musk - Page 55

    - - - Updated - - -

    Had some trouble getting the picture of Elon's tweets to show up, so instead I uploaded the original picture of those tweets from my hard drive.
     
  19. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, I have not received one negative comment or remark. In fact, some people seem to be even more thrilled than I am (if that's possible). The closest thing to a "negative" comment I've received was along the lines of "it's a great car if you're willing to deal with the compromises". This got me to thinking and I realized that I actually had more "compromises" with my old ICE than I do with the Model S when you add everything up.
     
  20. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    No matter what you put for the rest of the sentence, by definition I don't agree by default.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You're welcome to your opinion but I don't draw politics out of the thread title. Political bucketing and assumptions usually hamper a useful debate rather than inform it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I wasn't "arguing" anything. I was pointing out what I saw as an unproductive jab that doesn't really help the discussion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you can't find printed and internet examples of this regarding the people and groups you mention in your "[1]" then you're not looking hard enough. It happens on both sides of the fence (and in Independent quarters) and it's counterproductive for everyone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Perhaps related but off-topic, IMO. Solar power supply isn't required for EVs to be compelling or worthwhile. As has been stated many times on this forum.

    To answer your question, I have many reasons why I do many things. Not all of them rational. Not all of them explainable without cave drawings. [Ask Discoducky on the last two. ;)] It's a bit uncomfortable that you like to make assumptions about why other people think and do what they do so aggressively. It makes me not interested in sharing information at all, frankly.

    Again this aligns with my earlier point. Your prior post came across as counterproductive and confrontational, which is a great way to kill off an interesting discussion. This comment has a similar effect.

    Take from that what you will.
     

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