Go back in time and plead with tesla to not fully ditch radar due to either poor planning or a parts shortage. Other than that, just wait and hope that Tesla will bless us with a huge autopilot update that solves all the PB problems.
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How to deal with phantom braking?
- Thread starter techno
- Start date
Go back in time and plead with tesla to not fully ditch radar due to either poor planning or a parts shortage. Other than that, just wait and hope that Tesla will bless us with a huge autopilot update that solves all the PB problems.
Hmm. I thought that setting only affect the Forward Collision WARNING sounds, not AEB (automated emergency braking). Interesting. If that's the case I might reconsider the setting. Do you have anything more than anecdotal evidence?
No, only that they were frequent for me prior to setting it to 'Late' and rare since.
Driving my brand new model 3, received yesterday, from JAX to PNS west on I10 about 1030pm local ( iguess I did not do enough research on this as I was caught totally by surprise) Went from 75 to 60 on what I effectively call CAT1 autopilot. Sorry havent learned all the vernacular yet. I was the only one on that section of road, and too tired to remember now if over pass or what. I do remember we had crested a hill and happened be on the steep down hill. At first I thought I had screwed up, Then I thought I had the follow distance set too far and maybe the car saw the road as a wall. So I reduced my follow distance to 2.
So this morning I find out is a well known thing and "no big deal" hehe. Anyways, filed a NTHSA report. Put in a service call for other stuff and asked them about it and was told no software update.
So this morning I find out is a well known thing and "no big deal" hehe. Anyways, filed a NTHSA report. Put in a service call for other stuff and asked them about it and was told no software update.
Your car New is running factory non updated software Which takes a few weeks to update. Crazy ideas, why not wait for the update Then run to the NTHS to complain that it slowed down 10mph. seems like a Bit of an over reaction granted you joined a forum today just to tell this story so likely a different agenda.
ElectricAnt54
Active Member
Actually, it doesn’t happen to everyone. I’ve only had mild slowdown twice in one year of using autopilot. Once a pickup truck cut in to my lane & I had keep away distance set to maximum. Another time I came upon an area of freeway where construction crews had pointed their extremely bright lights at oncoming traffic.
Both cases I’d assume the car would slow down. I do stress, it was not slamming on brakes…just slowing down gradually. In those cases I might have pressed on accelerator or disabled autopilot & resumed manual driving and reactivate autopilot.
No agenda, but as far as software update. I had put in a ticket for panel alignments before I left delivery center. Today they contacted me. I asked about the phantom brake and if there was a software update. Unknown to me at the time what version I am on etc. They just said no update. Not sure what else I was supposed to do.
Anyways, first time ever I did any NTHSA stuff. No agenda, just contributing my experience on Day 1.
Best Reards.
ElectricAnt54
Active Member
hi there
…tis I...the tesla phantom braking virgin. Just wanted to introduce myself. Surely one day the phantom will choose me but I’ve been waiting for a year so far & i use basic autopilot + auto-steer a lot.I’ve had my car 1 year. All I can recall is my car slowing down a bit when a pickup truck cut in to my lane. Other time car slowed down a bit when I came upon a stretch of freeway at night where construction crew had pointed their bright lights at oncoming traffic at night. I think autopilot disengaged too I forget.
I ask my family if they are comfortable with me using autopilot + autosteer & they say yes. So far they are. I’ve used it on long road trips for hours at a time. I use it on Los Angeles congested freeways too.
OxBrew
Active Member
The first 17k miles on our 9/21 build Y LR/non FSD was almost impossible to use AP or TACC. PB several times an hour.
Then got the 36.6 update. We've put another 4600 miles on it since then, and have had exactly 1 PB, which was a really challenging bit of patched pavement, I almost hit the brakes for.
So I call it zero PBs in 4600 miles (80% highway, ish).
Stunning, the difference. I may never update again, it's so good. Afraid to lose it.
Then got the 36.6 update. We've put another 4600 miles on it since then, and have had exactly 1 PB, which was a really challenging bit of patched pavement, I almost hit the brakes for.
So I call it zero PBs in 4600 miles (80% highway, ish).
Stunning, the difference. I may never update again, it's so good. Afraid to lose it.
ndallas1983
Member
Driving through Mississippi back to Texas, there was a weigh station for large trucks on both sides of the highway. In the middle was what looked like a height radar to check if a truck went past the weigh station. We are extremely grateful that there was nobody behind us, but the car phantom braked from 85 to 10 MPH and it was so strong that everything in our car shifted forward, and I had a bit of struggle trying to reach the gas or brake pedal to stop the Full Self Drive.
I want to say this happened on the same exact place coming into Mississippi from Texas. We had maybe 8 phantom braking events take place and all were reported at the time of incident. If anyone was behind us (let's say a semi truck, or some a-hole in a large truck tail-gating you), it would have been really bad for us.
I'm honestly not sure what to do. We did not get any visual queues, no audial queues, just instant braking (as if the car were about to hit a brick wall) --- but I get an audial notification even if the car thinks I might hit a vehicle in front of me.
I know there's other phantom braking posts on here, but I wasn't sure if anyone has had it happen in FSD at max Auto Steering speed.
It would be nice if someone could help me get data out of my car and possibly make sense out of it to help fix the problem. I'm guessing that data is at least being sent to Tesla for them to fix. We have phantom brake spots all over our town that are reported every time we drive, and they are continuously missed (so far 3 updates have come through for FSD Beta, and none of them have fixed our phantom brake spots).
Some of the scariest ones are when the car goes over a bridge and thinks there's a stop light at the top of it (while on a major interstate highway). Yes it has lights, but they are underneath the highway, not on top of it where everyone is going 75 MPH.
And why was I going so fast? I was going the speed limit +5 and cars were flying past us - I had to increase speed some to prevent being hit or become a road rage target.
I guess the main lesson is, find a way to disable FSD at 75%+ max steering speed with something other than your feet, and figure out how to do it before the car loses 50% of its momentum or you may cause a backend collision.
Believe it or not, phantom braking and someone hitting you from behind is considered reckless driving (on your behalf), even if you blame it on your software. I believe reckless driving is a felony and comes with some jail time and major points off your license. As far as I can tell, anyone who blames a car accident on their software is immediately told that they are in control of the vehicle. I personally have to disagree with this only for phantom braking as this was something so powerful I could not disable the feature due to G-Forces.
I want to say this happened on the same exact place coming into Mississippi from Texas. We had maybe 8 phantom braking events take place and all were reported at the time of incident. If anyone was behind us (let's say a semi truck, or some a-hole in a large truck tail-gating you), it would have been really bad for us.
I'm honestly not sure what to do. We did not get any visual queues, no audial queues, just instant braking (as if the car were about to hit a brick wall) --- but I get an audial notification even if the car thinks I might hit a vehicle in front of me.
I know there's other phantom braking posts on here, but I wasn't sure if anyone has had it happen in FSD at max Auto Steering speed.
It would be nice if someone could help me get data out of my car and possibly make sense out of it to help fix the problem. I'm guessing that data is at least being sent to Tesla for them to fix. We have phantom brake spots all over our town that are reported every time we drive, and they are continuously missed (so far 3 updates have come through for FSD Beta, and none of them have fixed our phantom brake spots).
Some of the scariest ones are when the car goes over a bridge and thinks there's a stop light at the top of it (while on a major interstate highway). Yes it has lights, but they are underneath the highway, not on top of it where everyone is going 75 MPH.
And why was I going so fast? I was going the speed limit +5 and cars were flying past us - I had to increase speed some to prevent being hit or become a road rage target.
I guess the main lesson is, find a way to disable FSD at 75%+ max steering speed with something other than your feet, and figure out how to do it before the car loses 50% of its momentum or you may cause a backend collision.
Believe it or not, phantom braking and someone hitting you from behind is considered reckless driving (on your behalf), even if you blame it on your software. I believe reckless driving is a felony and comes with some jail time and major points off your license. As far as I can tell, anyone who blames a car accident on their software is immediately told that they are in control of the vehicle. I personally have to disagree with this only for phantom braking as this was something so powerful I could not disable the feature due to G-Forces.
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Override with the accelerator. As the driver, you should have your hands and feet positioned in such a manner that you can respond quickly to unexpected incidents. If the car can brake from 85 to 10 before you’re able to react as the driver, then you either weren’t paying attention or weren’t physically prepared for an unexpected event.
One, a "bug report" doesn't actually go to Tesla, afaik. It just stays on the car, and when you go to a Service Center, the techs can pull up your logs and see it.
Two, you don't have to use your foot, to do whatever, you can use your right hand to flick up on the stalk to disengage FSD, but that might not stop the phantom braking.
Three, if you know you have specific spots that cause phantom braking, just hold the accelerator down, it'll override the braking.
Four, your foot shouldn't be so far from the pedal that you have a hard time doing whatever. My foot is always lightly resting on the pedal. Honestly, I can override a phantom brake within 1 or 2mph. I can't imagine dropping to 10mph from 85mph.
Five, phantom braking has improved over time, as the software has been updated. Places I used to get braking, now I get FCW, Front Collision Warnings. Actually, I can't remember an actual vehicle slowdown in about a year.
Transformer
Do the math. Save the world. — Mark Leon
There's a lot of forum discussion about this under the term "phantom braking" for "FSD", TACC, and Autopilot.
Yes, it's dangerous. Drivers need to watch it like a hawk.
www.notebookcheck.net
Yes, it's dangerous. Drivers need to watch it like a hawk.
Government investigation finds Tesla FSD was indeed engaged during the Bay Bridge pileup
The US Department of Transportation has released the NHTSA agency's special crash investigation findings of the Model S-caused pileup in San Francisco on Thanksgiving Day. The accident in the Bay Bridge tunnel has occurred with Tesla's Full Self-Driving Beta mode active indeed, just as the...
www.notebookcheck.net
My question bout that pile up…There's a lot of forum discussion about this under the term "phantom braking" for "FSD", TACC, and Autopilot.
Yes, it's dangerous. Drivers need to watch it like a hawk.
Government investigation finds Tesla FSD was indeed engaged during the Bay Bridge pileup
The US Department of Transportation has released the NHTSA agency's special crash investigation findings of the Model S-caused pileup in San Francisco on Thanksgiving Day. The accident in the Bay Bridge tunnel has occurred with Tesla's Full Self-Driving Beta mode active indeed, just as the...
Couldn't the driver take over to get moving?
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Transformer
Do the math. Save the world. — Mark Leon
I think mashing down the accelerator will override phantom braking. Definitely, one can disengage FSD/Autopilot/TACC and take over.
How quickly a driver can notice the problem, decide that the car is not braking for an actual obstacle, and get it back up to speed depends on how alert and prepared they are.
These are ADAS "level 2" ("class 2" might be a better term) systems The 6 Levels of Vehicle Autonomy Explained | Synopsys Automotive
Transformer
Do the math. Save the world. — Mark Leon
BTW, Waymo runs each software version through their accumulated simulation tests before deploying to cars.
If Tesla did that we should see a rapidly decreasing incidence of phantom braking. Test automation would be worth a lot more to them than a robot.
If Tesla did that we should see a rapidly decreasing incidence of phantom braking. Test automation would be worth a lot more to them than a robot.
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