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How to deal with phantom braking?
- Thread starter techno
- Start date
I got my model 3 long range end of March and I've had phantom a lot in this car. It's to the point were I'm scared to even try to use cruise control or auto pilot. I don't really know what to do at this point, Tesla basically told me I have to live with it because they are aware of the problem but a fix will be coming. Don't get me wrong I think the rest of the car is very nice and works fine but I wish it did not phantom break almost ever time I use it. I've basically just stopped using it.
Is it possible to some how turn this car back in and go buy something else. Not that I could actually buy anything else, every car lot I drive by has like 1 to 4 cars.
Is it possible to some how turn this car back in and go buy something else. Not that I could actually buy anything else, every car lot I drive by has like 1 to 4 cars.
Lindenwood
Active Member
I would consider it a win that any representative of Tesla even acknowledged that it is an issue and provided any sort of reassurance…
This is literally the only thing I don’t like about the car.
This is literally the only thing I don’t like about the car.
The used car market has been very strong lately. You might be able to sell the car for more than you paid. Then you can buy something else and be happy.
Yes, very true. It's really the only issue i've had with the car. Everything is has been perfect.
I've thought of that and honestly if I could buy something I might think about it. But I've gone to so many dealerships and they just don't have any cars on the lots. Most dealers are telling me 6 to 12 months before I could even get a car. I don't know if that's a realistic estimate or not.
Tom_JS
Member
I just experienced Phantom Braking for this first time. But it was in a Rented Brand New Ford Edge. I thought I would try Blue Cruise and compare since I had the vehicle for a week. Besides the bouncing down the lane(It can’t keep you centered very well) I had one very strong braking event with absolutely NOTHING around. I cancelled and restarted and it continued on it’s way.
So don’t go thinking this is just Tesla. It’s just waaaay more magnified with Tesla. All cars do it.
So don’t go thinking this is just Tesla. It’s just waaaay more magnified with Tesla. All cars do it.
I went out yesterday to find and video some phantom braking. After reading some thoughts about how pavement reflections could be a cause, I wanted to find out if my car would present false visualizations of vehicles and if those visualizations could cause PB events.
I picked a four-lane divided highway that had low traffic (not an interstate) and some rolling hills to provide conditions where I could not only have mirages, but have the mirage distance potentially move toward or away from the car. I made sure that I was not following another vehicle closely enough for my car to use it as a lead car, but did try to keep another car far enough out for it to potentially contribute to a mirage. Speed was set at 76 mph.
The good news (if you can call it that!) is that I believe that I did get some phantom vehicles on the visualization. I never saw any very close however, but it did appear that the car would display some distant vehicles much closer than they really were.
Other good news is that I did get a couple minor PB events. Nothing major, but they did occur.
The bad news is that neither of the PB events occurred when there was a phantom vehicle on the display. Nor did I ever see a phantom vehicle moving toward my car on the display. The PB events had no discernible cause. There are no overpasses or shadows (mid day in north Texas with not trees to speak of) anywhere nearby when the PBs occurred.
So, my test was not conclusive so far as mirages causing PB but did confirm a video I saw of phantom cars. Partial success.
I picked a four-lane divided highway that had low traffic (not an interstate) and some rolling hills to provide conditions where I could not only have mirages, but have the mirage distance potentially move toward or away from the car. I made sure that I was not following another vehicle closely enough for my car to use it as a lead car, but did try to keep another car far enough out for it to potentially contribute to a mirage. Speed was set at 76 mph.
The good news (if you can call it that!) is that I believe that I did get some phantom vehicles on the visualization. I never saw any very close however, but it did appear that the car would display some distant vehicles much closer than they really were.
Other good news is that I did get a couple minor PB events. Nothing major, but they did occur.
The bad news is that neither of the PB events occurred when there was a phantom vehicle on the display. Nor did I ever see a phantom vehicle moving toward my car on the display. The PB events had no discernible cause. There are no overpasses or shadows (mid day in north Texas with not trees to speak of) anywhere nearby when the PBs occurred.
So, my test was not conclusive so far as mirages causing PB but did confirm a video I saw of phantom cars. Partial success.
I'm on I-5 in CA. When I talked with Tesla in northern CA they said it happens all the time and to give Tesla a little more time, they are working on the update now. The guy I talked with said they get complaints all the time at the Tesla shop for phantom breaking. But he was honest and said nothing they could do about it at the shop. My boss has a model Y and he can't even go from Sacramento to Chico on highway 99 without phantom breaking two or three times.
I talked with someone I meet while charging and he said when he came down on I-5 from Oregon in his Model Y and it was slamming on the breaks all the time. He finally gave up and just could not use it. Maybe it does not work on I-5 in CA, I never thought of that. I know that's not good but it kind of made me feel better, because I was starting to think it was just the Model 3 that I had.
It does not work on highway 99 in northern CA. I normally travel I-5 or 99 and both don't work at all. Maybe 5 or 10 miles, and starts slamming on the breaks for no reason. I'm more worried about people running into me.
I came down I-5 from Oregon to 505 just today and had no phantom braking. 2020 M3LR. (The dipsy-doodles at entry ramps are super annoying, however.)
SourJellybeans
Member
We’ve noticed phantom braking happens most when the car doesn’t have another car to follow reliably. It’s especially noticeable when approaching a hill with no vehicle in front of you, like the car is losing sight of the road and lines and slows down preemptively since it can’t see what’s on the other side.
I don’t think I’ve noticed any phantom braking events when the car has had another car to “lock on” to, so I disengage it whenever I’m not long flat/straight sections if there’s no other car to follow.
I don’t think I’ve noticed any phantom braking events when the car has had another car to “lock on” to, so I disengage it whenever I’m not long flat/straight sections if there’s no other car to follow.
That's great to know because most of the time no one is in front on me. Normally i'm for the most part alone on highway 99. Maybe that's part of the issue. I love the car other wise, it's great no issues at all.
Wingsy
Member
Did you get any real vehicles in a phantom location like this?
When I pass a semi I often see it bounce all over the place in the visualization, but nothing quite as bad as this. This wasn't very bouncy. It stayed in the far right lane until I got even with the cab. Almost all vehicles that I passed were far too much to the right. This, after I had done a camera cal. It's hard for me to believe that the FSD was using the true location of the semi but the semi was shown to me as being one lane over. Why would there be any discrepancy at all here? If the software can think that a semi next to me is farther away than it really is then I can also believe that cars in front sometimes have a similar error.
Kinda makes me wish for LIDAR coving a 120 degree cone out the front to address phantom braking.
That's great, i'm starting to wonder maybe it's just my car. I don't know if that's possible or not.
I'll try the camera recalibration. I hope it does help. I just completed a 3100-mile trip from Brownsville, Texas to northern Colorado and back. It got to be very scary in mountain traffic. I had to just drive myself and not use what should be some really nice features of the car. Also, some insurance companies (mine) use an app to watch how you drive and the Phantom braking has caused our rates to increase. So, this is costing money...
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I have a 2020 MYLR w/2022.12.3.20. I get PB events about every 10 miles or so. Some are predictable, some not. It’s definitely improved and FSDb keeps me on an older version so it may have improved since but it’s still enough to be annoying.
I’ve said this before, but it’s more than a little disappointing that a car company that claims to have the most advanced software has an adaptive cruise control that is probably the worst on the market.
I think a lot of Tesla FSD/AP boosters were like me - came from no car/cheap car previously as we were not "car guys".
Further, AP has stood still while Tesla focussed on FSD, and the the world has moved on and caught up.
Hyundai/Kia/Genesis highway systems have shown in reviews to be extremely competent.
MB is, in Germany, actually covering legal liability for usage of their system under 45mph.
BMW, which I have been driving for a week is a calming respite from my years of AP. No phantom braking, no freakouts when the lane widens/narrows for HOV on/offs, no sporadic following distances, no bizarre overcautious slowdowns, nor fighting the accelerator when trying to override, lane changes happen without the frequent AP half-commit & give up, etc.
The competition is mostly focussed on just dialing in the highway experience, which is really what most people want, and is actually achievable.
Tesla AP, not to mention FSD, remains a jarring experience especially for passengers.
This all started to become more noticeable when Tesla switched to a vision only system. It happened before but not as much. I had the car for 4 years. Since Tesla turned off radar and FSD beta rolled out the problem started to happen more often. It happens a lot when there is no car in front of you on a highway. Even TACC does phantom braking which is surprising. You would think at least this one would work.
I got to the point where I started driving without FSD then without NoA then without Autosteer to see which fixes it. So far based on my driving few days ago turning off Autosteer helped prevent TACC from phantom braking. I even emailed Tesla FSD Beta to take me off the beta but no one even replied and I'm stuck with it. The sad thing is even if it is disabled the system is paralyzed by FSD vision only implementation. I drive mostly on highways and FSD city driving is pointless to me. I enjoy driving in the city but not as much on a long stretch of highways.
I got to the point where I started driving without FSD then without NoA then without Autosteer to see which fixes it. So far based on my driving few days ago turning off Autosteer helped prevent TACC from phantom braking. I even emailed Tesla FSD Beta to take me off the beta but no one even replied and I'm stuck with it. The sad thing is even if it is disabled the system is paralyzed by FSD vision only implementation. I drive mostly on highways and FSD city driving is pointless to me. I enjoy driving in the city but not as much on a long stretch of highways.
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