How to deal with phantom braking?

[Supcom]

This all started to become more noticeable when Tesla switched to a vision only system. It happened before but not as much. I had the car for 4 years. Since Tesla turned off radar and FSD beta rolled out the problem started to happen more often. It happens a lot when there is no car in front of you on a highway. Even TACC does phantom braking which is surprising. You would think at least this one would work.
I got to the point where I started driving without FSD then without NoA then without Autosteer to see which fixes it. So far based on my driving few days ago turning off Autosteer helped prevent TACC from phantom braking. I even emailed Tesla FSD Beta to take me off the beta but no one even replied and I'm stuck with it. The sad thing is even if it is disabled the system is paralyzed by FSD vision only implementation. I drive mostly on highways and FSD city driving is pointless to me. I enjoy driving in the city but not as much on a long stretch of highways.

Keep emailing. Others have reported that it takes multiple emails to get their attention.

 

[Jcl007]

This all started to become more noticeable when Tesla switched to a vision only system. It happened before but not as much. I had the car for 4 years. Since Tesla turned off radar and FSD beta rolled out the problem started to happen more often. It happens a lot when there is no car in front of you on a highway. Even TACC does phantom braking which is surprising. You would think at least this one would work.
I got to the point where I started driving without FSD then without NoA then without Autosteer to see which fixes it. So far based on my driving few days ago turning off Autosteer helped prevent TACC from phantom braking. I even emailed Tesla FSD Beta to take me off the beta but no one even replied and I'm stuck with it. The sad thing is even if it is disabled the system is paralyzed by FSD vision only implementation. I drive mostly on highways and FSD city driving is pointless to me. I enjoy driving in the city but not as much on a long stretch of highways.

Haven’t had any phantom braking on the highway since getting FSD, but it definitely happens on the streets. Sounds like leaving FSD won’t matter anyways since a new update is out that moves radar cars to vision.

 

[MSG_M3]

When driving along the motorway, I get a few phantom braking incidents for each hour of driving (roughly and on average). I totally understand this happens to everyone so I'm not alone but a few questions.

What's the best way to deal with this in terms of reporting? I sometimes disengage AP even though I don't need to. My thinking is that the disengagement will at least provide a point of interest in the data as to something has happened. I could report the event but I haven't done this so far.

What's the best way to deal with this in terms of driving? When the braking occurs, it almost feels like something is grinding but I guess this is just the system of how it is applying the brakes. Assuming I can catch it early, should I press the accelerator to override the braking? Or should I disable AP?

Overall, it's very worrying and I get quite nervous as there are far too many people in the UK who drive far to close behind me . I don't want to get rear ended due to phantom braking so I often disable AP but this is very annoying. Do others get worried about getting rear ended due to phantom braking to the point where they drive the car manually to avoid this situation?

When I set the autopilot following distance to the max of 7 units of distance/time, my phantom braking incidents all but disappeared. It was set to 3 when I had frequent GBS at highway speeds on remote Interstate.

Try it and see what you get.

 

[MSG_M3]

When I set the autopilot following distance to the max of 7 units of distance/time, my phantom braking incidents all but disappeared. It was set to 3 when I had frequent GBS at highway speeds on remote Interstate.

Try it and see what you get.

GBS? Dumb spellchecker. I meant phantom braking incidents.

 

[SalisburySam]

GBS? Dumb spellchecker. I meant phantom braking incidents.

Love autocorrect! I’ve learned many new words and phrases over the years with that “feature.” On a related note, autocorrect has been around for at least two decades in various forms and abilities. Given its current implementation and error rate, is there really any hope for FSD? Kidding of course…maybe.

 

[MSG_M3]

Love autocorrect! I’ve learned many new words and phrases over the years with that “feature.” On a related note, autocorrect has been around for at least two decades in various forms and abilities. Given its current implementation and error rate, is there really any hope for FSD? Kidding of course…maybe.

I will never use FSD

 

[tony26]

Today, my car slammed on the brakes so hard that I now have Whiplash. Is it possible that I have a lemon of a car? I don't know what to think. My boss has a Tesla, never had this issue at all after more than a year. My ex has one another friend has one and they don't have this issue. Another thing is maybe it's the road I'm trying, I'm in northern CA highway 99 near Chico up to Red Bluff area. Maybe the road is just not good enough for cruise control. I did take it to Tesla and they said nothing they could do. They are aware of the phantom breaking but basically nothing they could do.

 

[Dewg]

Today, my car slammed on the brakes so hard that I now have Whiplash. Is it possible that I have a lemon of a car? I don't know what to think. My boss has a Tesla, never had this issue at all after more than a year. My ex has one another friend has one and they don't have this issue. Another thing is maybe it's the road I'm trying, I'm in northern CA highway 99 near Chico up to Red Bluff area. Maybe the road is just not good enough for cruise control. I did take it to Tesla and they said nothing they could do. They are aware of the phantom breaking but basically nothing they could do.

My only recommendation would be to keep the cameras clean and run through a camera calibration.

 

[tony26]

My only recommendation would be to keep the cameras clean and run through a camera calibration.

I will try and run through the camera calibration. Thank you for the recommendation.

 

[Dewg]

I will try and run through the camera calibration. Thank you for the recommendation.

Just in case this will help - here is my procedure:

1. Wash your car - and dry it completely
2. Drive towards a multilane freeway/highway, preferably with 3 lanes each side, well marked.
3. Just before entering the freeway/highway, put the car in Park, then go into Settings - Service. Camera Calibration.
4. Put the car back into Drive and drive on the freeway/highway, in the middle lane, until the calibration is complete (takes about 5-10 miles).
5. Exit the freeway and put the car in Park - go into Settings - Autopilot and set everything back up (including NoA settings)
6. After you've set the settings, do a reboot (I use the brake method): hold down the two scroll wheels while also putting your foot on the brake. Once the screen goes black, take your fingers off the scroll wheels, but keep your foot on the brake until you see the T on the screen, then release.

Give that a shot and see if it helps with your driving.

I also recommend keeping an eye out on your GPS accuracy. If you find your GPS is not showing you exactly where you should be on the map, that can cause ADAS problems as well.

 

[tony26]

Just in case this will help - here is my procedure:

1. Wash your car - and dry it completely
2. Drive towards a multilane freeway/highway, preferably with 3 lanes each side, well marked.
3. Just before entering the freeway/highway, put the car in Park, then go into Settings - Service. Camera Calibration.
4. Put the car back into Drive and drive on the freeway/highway, in the middle lane, until the calibration is complete (takes about 5-10 miles).
5. Exit the freeway and put the car in Park - go into Settings - Autopilot and set everything back up (including NoA settings)
6. After you've set the settings, do a reboot (I use the brake method): hold down the two scroll wheels while also putting your foot on the brake. Once the screen goes black, take your fingers off the scroll wheels, but keep your foot on the brake until you see the T on the screen, then release.

Give that a shot and see if it helps with your driving.

I also recommend keeping an eye out on your GPS accuracy. If you find your GPS is not showing you exactly where you should be on the map, that can cause ADAS problems as well.

I will totally do this. Maybe i'm not supposed to use cruise control or auto pilot on the roads that I have in northern CA. It's highway 99 which is only a two lane road highway. Are people not supposed to use the cruise control on two lane roads? I honestly hardly ever use the auto pilot mostly just the cruise control.

 

[Padelford]

The camera recalibration process can take a lot longer than 5-10 miles. That distance gets 90-95% if the job done in my experience. Another 50-100 miles are required to reach 100%.

Also, can someone explain why recalibrating cameras is necessary? What changes/drifts in the system over time to invalidate the original calibration?

 

[alangold]

What is your follow distance set to ? Try 5 car lengths - I only use tac on highways in FL - try chill mode - very smooth

 

[White Shadow]

I just experienced Phantom Braking for this first time. But it was in a Rented Brand New Ford Edge. I thought I would try Blue Cruise and compare since I had the vehicle for a week. Besides the bouncing down the lane(It can’t keep you centered very well) I had one very strong braking event with absolutely NOTHING around. I cancelled and restarted and it continued on it’s way.

So don’t go thinking this is just Tesla. It’s just waaaay more magnified with Tesla. All cars do it.

All cars do not do it. Not by a long shot. I'm not saying it's only Tesla, but it's most definitely not all cars.

 

[tony26]

What is your follow distance set to ? Try 5 car lengths - I only use tac on highways in FL - try chill mode - very smooth

I just checked and i'm at 7, I will try changing it to 5.

 

[tony26]

All cars do not do it. Not by a long shot. I'm not saying it's only Tesla, but it's most definitely not all cars.

I'm not sure how many cars are getting phantom breaking, but I know my boss has a Nissan and has it. My old Toyota I had did phantom breaking and I know people with new Ford vehicles that it happens.

 

[bsf29]

Tesla is the only car that my foot hovers over the accelerator and not the brake. I'm fairly good a figuring out what situations the care isn't going to be happy with so I can avoid whiplash. I had better luck using "Bug Report" in the past to get items corrected within a few weeks. I never found an email account that did anything. Email also isn't going to provide any GPS information so they know what the car saw and why there was phantom braking. In the past 2 years it seems like no one at Tesla is reviewing any Bug Reports or email. I think the work they are doing on FSDb is translating into better detection for non-FSD. I find FSDb is much worse with phantom braking. Last week I was driving my wife's M3 on one of my FSDb test routes. It was smooth and a much more enjoyable ride.

 

[White Shadow]

I'm not sure how many cars are getting phantom breaking, but I know my boss has a Nissan and has it. My old Toyota I had did phantom breaking and I know people with new Ford vehicles that it happens.

My daily drivers are an Audi and a Jeep. We also have an Acura. All three have adaptive cruise control and some form of self-driving capabilities. None have ever had any phantom braking issues. It's simply not an issue.

 

[tony26]

My daily drivers are an Audi and a Jeep. We also have an Acura. All three have adaptive cruise control and some form of self-driving capabilities. None have ever had any phantom braking issues. It's simply not an issue.

Oh that's really good, I know a lot of people I work with, with different model cars and they have nothing but phantom breaking here in northern CA, almost daily. Even my cousin has an Acrua MDX and she has issues almost weekly in the LA area. Maybe it's just the roads we are driving. I don't understand it to be honest. One person has no issues while other people have nothing but issues.

Another boss I have has a Model Y and he's never had phantom breaking in almost 2 years, while I have a model 3 and have it a few times a week. I don't understand it at all.

 

[White Shadow]

Oh that's really good, I know a lot of people I work with, with different model cars and they have nothing but phantom breaking here in northern CA, almost daily. Even my cousin has an Acrua MDX and she has issues almost weekly in the LA area. Maybe it's just the roads we are driving. I don't understand it to be honest. One person has no issues while other people have nothing but issues.

Another boss I have has a Model Y and he's never had phantom breaking in almost 2 years, while I have a model 3 and have it a few times a week. I don't understand it at all.

Okay, sure. LOL

Tesla pretty much invented phantom braking. It's a big problem for them and they've been investigated by the NHTSA. I know that Nissan had an issue too with their Rogue. But the fact of the matter is that it's not a big problem for any other automaker. Does that mean it can't happen? Nope. It just means that it's not a widespread issue anywhere near what Tesla is dealing with.

I guess I'm just extremely lucky that I have three vehicles from three completely different manufacturers (American, Japanese, German) and none of them had ever had a single occurrence of phantom braking.