How to Determine AP1 or AP2 on MS at Dealer

[JoeA]

Been looking for months for a used 2016 MS with AP2 sold direct from Tesla using ev-cpo.com. I have very specific options I want, and so far, no luck, so started looking elsewhere. I thought anything built in Oct, Nov or Dec of 2016 would have AP2, but now not sure (read on).

I've been talking to a dealer in MA about buying a 2016 MS 60D. Unfortunately, it's a two hour drive, so I've been unable to see the car just yet. The manufacture date is 11/2016, so I was assuming it has AP2 (a.k.a. Hardware 2.0). I've asked them to check for three cameras (AP2) versus one (AP1) forward facing above the rearview mirror. He just told me only one camera.

Is this possible that a build date of 11/2016 has only AP1?

I know the VIN doesn't have that level of detail encoded in it. If I call a SC with the VIN, do you think they will give me details on the car even though I'm not the owner?

 

[Tam]

[QUOTE="JoeA, post: 3799634, member: 103861"...built in Oct, Nov or Dec of 2016 would have AP2...[/QUOTE]

The month of production is a nice filter but I would still further verify by either 1-camera or 8-camera configuration.

 

[EV-CPO]

Take a look for the side rear facing cameras.. here's a good image comparing the two -- AP1 has no camera on the turn signal trim piece just forward of the front passenger doors (ask him to send you a photo):

From this website: Differences between Tesla Autopilot 1, Autopilot 2, HW2.5 & Autopilot 3 (also known as HW2.5 and HW3) – Which MCU do I have?

 

[JoeA]

Thanks Tam and EV-CPO for your comments, very helpful. Whereas a chat I had with Tesla support today was not helpful in the least. I've included the chat log below (I removed the Tesla employee name from the log).

Is this type of support, or lack thereof, what I can expect from Tesla if I buy a Model S? (I've highlighted relevant lines in the chat below.)

I understand they cannot give out info on a car I don't own, but what about providing useful info in general on the Model S? From what I've learned from you folks here on TMC, you can tell the difference in hardware between AP1 and AP2 from the exterior. How can a Tesla support person not know this? Is it me, am I not understanding something here regarding the technology?

Chat Log:

Me: Can you please lookup and tell me if this Model S with VIN ********** has AP1 or AP2 hardware?

Tesla: Yes, I can look into this for you. In order to do so, can I also get the phone number and email address associated with your account?

Me: This is a car being sold by a dealer.

Tesla: If you're not the listed owner we at Tesla will not give you any information about any specific vehicle. Is there anything else I can help you with today?

Me: Were all Model S's manufactured in Nov 2016 and later AP2 (or higher)?

Tesla: No they weren't. Is there anything else I can help you with today?

Me: Looking at the exterior of a Model S, how can I tell if it has AP1 or AP2 hardware?

Tesla: There is no way for you to tell from looking at the outside of the vehicle what it will or will not have internally.

Me: What about the cameras visible on the outside? What's the difference between AP1 and AP2 (hardware, not the enabled software)?

Tesla: Camera's are hardware, you're asking about a processor, there is nothing on the outside or the inside of the car that will guarantee which processor the vehicle has. I advise you to touch base with the car owner to figure out what configuration the vehicle has, or have them take you and the vehicle to a Service Center for a new vehicle inspection. Is there anything else I can help you with today?

Me: The dealer is clueless and is of no help, and I cannot take it to a SC. Sorry, I was not referring to the processor. I'm trying to determine if it has the necessary cameras, and other hardware, to support EAP and eventually FSD. How about the front facing cameras? If there are 3 instead of 1, is that Hardware 2.0?

Tesla: I understand that can be frustrating, but unless you are the listed owner or additional contact, I can't give you any information on any specific vehicle. As the abovementioned message states: "there is nothing on the outside or the inside of the car that will guarantee which processor the vehicle has."

Me: I would like to thank you so very much for all of your help today. I hope you have a terrific day!

 

[Tam]

...chat...

Most likely, these employees have a script to talk so their understanding is only as good as a script.

The script is correct that by looking at 8 cameras, there's no telling whether the processor is Hardware 2.0, 2.5, or 3.0.

But you were asking AP1 & AP2 identification not different versions of FSD from AP2 and up.

They are also correct that by looking up your VIN, they can tell you the status of its FSD and hardware.

If you really want FSD, I would say that you have a better chance if you buy an existing and paid for FSD car. You can tell that if they can produce a window sticker that indicates so, or a receipt that indicates so.

If you don't have proof of paid FSD, you might have to jump through hoops like the way you just experience with the "chat" to pay for FSD for your used car.

 

[Blitz3RS]

Definitely look for the side cameras on either the repeater or the b-pillar by the driver side or passenger side front doors.

But also absolutely confirm the system is "active" because I've seen some sales ads that then go into the menu screen options only to show TACC and no autopilot.

You'll want to see that there's a way to customize summon (beta) & autosteering (beta); if you see something about navigate on autopilot, then it's AP2 as well.

I've noticed that some of the 2016 AP2 cars did NOT have autopilot activated because at the time of purchase people would have had to pay for a system that didn't actually perform autopilot (autopilot 2 got its initial features in December 2016).

 

[JoeA]

I've asked for a photo of the side of the car from the dealer, but have not received it yet.

Thanks Blitz3RS for the tips on determing if AP software has been enabled. The dealer told me there is no AP enabled on the car, but not sure if they know where to look. For that matter, not sure I know where to look either as this will be my first MS. But hopefully given your tips, and 40 years of developing software, I can figure it out. (Yeah, I'm old. )

I was trying to confirm AP2 is on the car (a.k.a. hardware 2) before making the two hour drive to this dealer, but I may just have to bite the bullet and make the trip next week after the holiday.

 

[csriram45]

OP update the thread with pictures if you can. As someone who is looking for a used MS and from third parties, it will be helpful with pictures and videos on what to look or and expect

 

[Tam]

... TACC and no autopilot...

Traditional / Simple / Dumb cruise control is standard without paying extra for Autopilot.

TACC costs extra because it is included in Autopilot price package.

If you have TACC, then you certainly have at least Autopilot package.

 

[JoeA]

OP update the thread with pictures if you can. As someone who is looking for a used MS and from third parties, it will be helpful with pictures and videos on what to look or and expect

Bad news, I never received any photos from the dealer of the side, and the front photo showing the camera block above the rearview mirror was so poor, I couldn't see how many cameras there are.

Good news, I called the dealer once again, and speaking with someone else, on my direction, he checked the side of the car, and it has hardware 2.0 as evidenced by the cameras in the turn signal lights behind the front wheels, and on the b-pillar! So I'm making the trip next week to see the car.

Thanks to all that replied helping me figure this out. Reading TMC over the past couple of months or so has really given me an education on the MS. I've been interested in the car since reading the 2013 article by Consumer Reports where it rated it 103 out of 100 in the road test, and 99 out of 100 overall - the best ever tested. I'm finally going to pull the trigger this year!