Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

How to do peak past midnight?

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,561
250
auburn, ca
Currently I have my batteries set for advanced balanced peak 3 pm to 11:50pm, and non peak from 12anm to 3pm..
Is there a way to extend the peak into the AM morning. Meaning, I want to run off grid for as long as I can per day.
 

MorrisonHiker

S 100D 2021.4.12
Mar 8, 2015
9,407
8,554
Colorado
I haven't tried setting up peak past midnight but we have ours set to part-peak from 7 pm until 3 am and our Powerwalls always power the house from the start of peak (3 pm) until the end of part-peak at 3 am.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,561
250
auburn, ca
I haven't tried setting up peak past midnight but we have ours set to part-peak from 7 pm until 3 am and our Powerwalls always power the house from the start of peak (3 pm) until the end of part-peak at 3 am.
Okay, I just changed my setup to part peak from 12am to 6am. Will see what happens. As our solar gets more output, my possible ability to be off grid longer goes up. The key thing I want to be able to do is send solar back at the 50 cent high rate from 3pm to when my solar goes off. And then use as much from the batteries so I do not get hit with the NBC charges. This playing around is taking way too much time. :) BUT, I feel SO lucky to have gotten the 5 batteries. And I love having the split between my house on one GW, and the heating/air load on the other GW. Gives me even more flexibility in controlling stuff.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
7,681
8,460
Riverside Co. CA
Is there a reason you have decided not to use self powered mode, which, by design, tries to have you use your own power as much as possible? That sounds like what you want, especially if your batteries can be full from your solar before 3pm.

Self powered mode does:

When the PV is producing power, PV goes 1st to cover the home loads. If there is additional power from PV left after covering home loads, the PV then is sent to the batteries. If the batteries are full, then PV is sent back to the grid.

When the PV is not producing enough to cover the home loads, the batteries will discharge to cover the difference (at all times).

When there is no PV, the home loads are covered by batteries, until the batteries hit their reserve limit.


Basically, it prioritizes using as little as possible from the grid. All the other modes seem to try to determine when the best time for the home to use grid power is, while self powered mode attempts to never use grid power, until reserve limits for the batteries are reached.

For someone who is saying "I want to pull from the grid as little as possible" then self powered mode seems to be the right answer. I am likely biased though, as I use self powered mode myself and just adjust my reserve to what I want it to be depending on what I think I need to carry me back to sunrise.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,561
250
auburn, ca
Is there a reason you have decided not to use self powered mode, which, by design, tries to have you use your own power as much as possible? That sounds like what you want, especially if your batteries can be full from your solar before 3pm.

Self powered mode does:

When the PV is producing power, PV goes 1st to cover the home loads. If there is additional power from PV left after covering home loads, the PV then is sent to the batteries. If the batteries are full, then PV is sent back to the grid.

When the PV is not producing enough to cover the home loads, the batteries will discharge to cover the difference (at all times).

When there is no PV, the home loads are covered by batteries, until the batteries hit their reserve limit.


Basically, it prioritizes using as little as possible from the grid. All the other modes seem to try to determine when the best time for the home to use grid power is, while self powered mode attempts to never use grid power, until reserve limits for the batteries are reached.

For someone who is saying "I want to pull from the grid as little as possible" then self powered mode seems to be the right answer. I am likely biased though, as I use self powered mode myself and just adjust my reserve to what I want it to be depending on what I think I need to carry me back to sunrise.
Makes sense. But, since I know I cannot do 100% off grid, I was trying this approach. By sending solar 100% back to grid from 3pm until the sun goes does, I get like .39 or .5 cents per KW. But then when I have to use from grid, only costs my .18.

Right now the solar is doing 100% battery charging to see if I can get 100% recharged to do this again.

Is this not the right approach to save as much money as possible which is a higher priority to me than being off grid, even though it was fun to see the graph being 100% from 3pm on yesterday
off.jpg
 

MorrisonHiker

S 100D 2021.4.12
Mar 8, 2015
9,407
8,554
Colorado
Is there a reason you have decided not to use self powered mode, which, by design, tries to have you use your own power as much as possible? That sounds like what you want, especially if your batteries can be full from your solar before 3pm.

Self powered mode does:

When the PV is producing power, PV goes 1st to cover the home loads. If there is additional power from PV left after covering home loads, the PV then is sent to the batteries. If the batteries are full, then PV is sent back to the grid.

When the PV is not producing enough to cover the home loads, the batteries will discharge to cover the difference (at all times).

When there is no PV, the home loads are covered by batteries, until the batteries hit their reserve limit.


Basically, it prioritizes using as little as possible from the grid. All the other modes seem to try to determine when the best time for the home to use grid power is, while self powered mode attempts to never use grid power, until reserve limits for the batteries are reached.

For someone who is saying "I want to pull from the grid as little as possible" then self powered mode seems to be the right answer. I am likely biased though, as I use self powered mode myself and just adjust my reserve to what I want it to be depending on what I think I need to carry me back to sunrise.
Do you have ToU? We do and want to export as much as possible during peak and part-peak and only draw from the grid at off-peak. If Tesla were to release a scheduled self-powered mode, we'd definitely use it...but until then, we use TBC to ensure peak and part-peak are nearly always powered by the Powerwalls or solar. Over 98% of our grid usage is at off-peak periods.

If we were on self-powered on a cloudy day, it's possible the house would be powered by the Powerwalls and be drained to their reserve during off-peak or part-peak, requiring us to pull from the grid during peak period.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,561
250
auburn, ca
Do you have ToU? We do and want to export as much as possible during peak and part-peak and only draw from the grid at off-peak. If Tesla were to release a scheduled self-powered mode, we'd definitely use it...but until then, we use TBC to ensure peak and part-peak are nearly always powered by the Powerwalls or solar. Over 98% of our grid usage is at off-peak periods.

If we were on self-powered on a cloudy day, it's possible the house would be powered by the Powerwalls and be drained to their reserve during off-peak or part-peak, requiring us to pull from the grid during peak period.
Yep, TOU in Calif. Yes, the issue of not being able to recharge PW's with clouds is an issue. I have options ready if needed and I cannot do things the "right" way
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
7,681
8,460
Riverside Co. CA
Do you have ToU? We do and want to export as much as possible during peak and part-peak and only draw from the grid at off-peak. If Tesla were to release a scheduled self-powered mode, we'd definitely use it...but until then, we use TBC to ensure peak and part-peak are nearly always powered by the Powerwalls or solar. Over 98% of our grid usage is at off-peak periods.

If we were on self-powered on a cloudy day, it's possible the house would be powered by the Powerwalls and be drained to their reserve during off-peak or part-peak, requiring us to pull from the grid during peak period.

No, I do not have TOU, I am still on a tiered rate plan so for me it doesnt matter when I use the power. I am in california but because I got PV in 2015 I am able to stay on my tiered rate.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: MorrisonHiker

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,561
250
auburn, ca
No, I do not have TOU, I am still on a tiered rate plan so for me it doesnt matter when I use the power. I am in california but because I got PV in 2015 I am able to stay on my tiered rate.
My daughter is on Tiered NEM1 so yep, you folks have a totally different need. But when I am forced onto EV2-a, I have to change my strategy, which I am starting to play with now. If you ever on EV2-a, is what I am doing something you would consider, or is there a better way?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MorrisonHiker

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
7,681
8,460
Riverside Co. CA
My daughter is on Tiered NEM1 so yep, you folks have a totally different need. But when I am forced onto EV2-a, I have to change my strategy, which I am starting to play with now. If you ever on EV2-a, is what I am doing something you would consider, or is there a better way?

I would likely do something like @MorrisonHiker is talking about, or what you are trying to do.
 

MJ_CA_2019

Member
Aug 19, 2020
93
20
Central CA
After a lot of brain cycles and playing around with the App Settings, I settled on TOU - Balanced.
I am on PG&E TOU-B (M-F 4-9pm Peak, all others off peak). I believe everyone has to play around with it and then settle into what you are comfortable with using. The system is like a new toy you want to teak constantly. :) Now I'm more concerned with having consistent data in my reports than changing modes, etc.

I think the behavior is far more controlled by the size of your PV system related to your home use than anything else.
Right now I'm effectively off grid because we started producing more than home usage in January (gas heating).
In the Summer when we are using nearly 100kWh per day and only producing 70-80 kWh, the system will make sure we have zero peak usage (and export PV production during peak times). That's about all I can ask for really...

I used to be really tied up with NBCs, but when you consider the 90% round trip efficiency of the system I wonder if it's really that important.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,561
250
auburn, ca
After a lot of brain cycles and playing around with the App Settings, I settled on TOU - Balanced.
I am on PG&E TOU-B (M-F 4-9pm Peak, all others off peak). I believe everyone has to play around with it and then settle into what you are comfortable with using. The system is like a new toy you want to teak constantly. :) Now I'm more concerned with having consistent data in my reports than changing modes, etc.

I think the behavior is far more controlled by the size of your PV system related to your home use than anything else.
Right now I'm effectively off grid because we started producing more than home usage in January (gas heating).
In the Summer when we are using nearly 100kWh per day and only producing 70-80 kWh, the system will make sure we have zero peak usage (and export PV production during peak times). That's about all I can ask for really...

I used to be really tied up with NBCs, but when you consider the 90% round trip efficiency of the system I wonder if it's really that important.
You are lucky to be on TOU with batteries. As I said, I believe I will be forced to ev2-a. But, it might be possible, with your approach, that ev2-a could be cheaper, since you would export back to grid via solar at peak for a lot more money?
 

MJ_CA_2019

Member
Aug 19, 2020
93
20
Central CA
You are lucky to be on TOU with batteries. As I said, I believe I will be forced to ev2-a. But, it might be possible, with your approach, that ev2-a could be cheaper, since you would export back to grid via solar at peak for a lot more money?
If I had an EV I'd look at it more seriously.
As it stands, I don't think losing Sat, Sun as all day "Off Peak" would be worth it. (This is the main difference between TOU-B and TOU-C btw)
 

RKCRLR

Member
Apr 13, 2020
285
106
Garden Valley, CA
I'm on PG&E EV2-A. I have my app set to Advanced - Cost Saving with a 50% reserve and have set my price schedule to match the EV2-A times (Peak 4-9pm, off-peak 12am-3pm, and part peak times of 3-4pm and 9pm-12am).
With these settings I start running off the Powerwalls at 3pm and can make it to midnight most of the time. I'm usually fully charged by 3pm and ready for the next cycle. Obviously, if its really cloudy I won't get fully charged. Sometimes the Powerwalls don't provide power during the 3-4pm time period but most of the time they do.
The most cost effective way is to have the Powerwalls carry you through the part and full peak periods but that doesn't take your reserve comfort level into account. I'm OK with 50%.
My goal is to have a $0 true up. If I overshoot I'll probably do something to run off the batteries less during the part-peak periods.
It would be interesting to see an analysis of the cost of battery life lost per cycle vs the the wholesale reimbursement rate when you overproduce.
 
Last edited:

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,561
250
auburn, ca
I'm on PG&E EV2-A. I have my app set to Advanced - Cost Saving with a 50% reserve and have set my price schedule to match the EV2-A times (Peak 4-9pm, off-peak 12am-3pm, and part peak times of 3-4pm and 9pm-12am).
With these settings I start running off the Powerwalls at 3pm and can make it to midnight most of the time. I'm usually fully charged by 3pm and ready for the next cycle. Obviously, if its really cloudy I won't get fully charged. Sometimes the Powerwalls don't provide power during the 3-4pm time period but most of the time they do.
The most cost effective way is to have the Powerwalls carry you through the part and full peak periods but that doesn't take your reserve comfort level into account. I'm OK with 50%.
My goal is to have a $0 true up. If I overshoot I'll probably do something to run off the batteries less during the part-peak periods.
It would be interesting to see an analysis of the cost of battery life lost per cycle vs the the wholesale reimbursement rate when you overproduce.
Why cost savings? What costs change if you use other?

I had my reserve to 20% yesterday, just move to 10%. For me, worst case is if I lose power and have not batteries, I just turn on the generator.

My goal is $0 true for ALL energy cost, meaning, gas counts if you have it, IMO.
 

RKCRLR

Member
Apr 13, 2020
285
106
Garden Valley, CA
Why cost savings? What costs change if you use other?

I had my reserve to 20% yesterday, just move to 10%. For me, worst case is if I lose power and have not batteries, I just turn on the generator.

My goal is $0 true for ALL energy cost, meaning, gas counts if you have it, IMO.
I used Cost Savings because the description said to use to Maximize savings and that is what I want to do. I don't know how Balanced treats the price schedule settings.
I agree gas counts and I also have wood. I don't use gas much, mostly when the heat pump can't recover from the setback when it is very cold or the unit goes into a defrost cycle. I mostly use the wood for the comfort of the radiant heat. I have more trees than I can keep up with.
My point is once the system is installed (with the plan being $0 true-up) you already have the sunk costs. If you are overshooting $0 true-up then the small amount you are reimbursed per kWh doesn't seem worth it and I might as well save the battery cycle life.
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top