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How to make plaid accelerate faster ?

No there's no performance upgrades to be made outside of hardware via weight reduction. The plaid record is something like 8.83 1/4 mile. Start with light weight forged wheels and carbon ceramic brakes (unspring weight). That's about all you can do beside starting to gut the interior like the record setting car.
Try 8.75 :cool:


-Reduce weight
-Improve efficiency (I know this is not easy... lot of trial error)
-Improve aero (last 3rd of the 1/4 maybe ?) Ill be honest I did not really work on aero, its probably worse now then stock
 
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Try 8.75 :cool:


-Reduce weight
-Improve efficiency (I know this is not easy... lot of trial error)
-Improve aero (last 3rd of the 1/4 maybe ?) Ill be honest I did not really work on aero, its probably worse now then stock
Would love to see pictures or a video of your car making the record pass!

Improve aero- Run pass on hot day, high altitude, with wind gusts in the direction of travel!
 
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Would love to see pictures or a video of your car making the record pass!

Improve aero- Run pass on hot day, high altitude, with wind gusts in the direction of travel!
With wind gust in direction of travel I have hit speed limiter on a few occasions. resulting in 162.x mph time slips

I have no video of the 8.75 only timeslip

BUT I have this video of one of my two 8.77 runs

 
But there must be some truth in that🤷‍♂️ Does the car need such a large battery pack if it’s only going 1/4 mile?
Smaller battery pack won't be able to discharge enough electricity at a rate to produce ~1,000 HP! Even the plaid once the battery is less than 50% charged doesn't discharge at a rate to produce ~ 1,000 HP as i can tell the plaid no longer accelerates as hard. Tesla had worked on supercapacitors which perhaps some day might accomplish what you are after or maybe one of these firms working on solid state batteries will make a breakthrough...
 
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Smaller battery pack won't be able to discharge enough electricity at a rate to produce ~1,000 HP! Even the plaid once the battery is less than 50% charged doesn't discharge at a rate to produce ~ 1,000 HP as i can tell the plaid no longer accelerates as hard. Tesla had worked on supercapacitors which perhaps some day might accomplish what you are after or maybe one of these firms working on solid state batteries will make a breakthrough...
You're right but you mean a smaller battery pack of the same cells....

If you change the cells to drag racing lithium cells then you could save weight, yes.


Each one of the 100C/200C cells =
5AH capacity
1.5KW power output for 10 second bursts
130g weight
$30 cost

Plaid would need a solid 900KW of power to not fall short (1200hp) that's 600 cells
600 cells =
11.1KWH pack (~30 miles range)
$18,000
78kg or 172lbs

Plaid battery weighs something close to 1,300lbs stock, so the savings is considerable....1000lbs?

The batteries exist....the issues I see are:

(1) HW, there would be additional cost for metal weight needed to house the drag cells and replace the plaid battery structure.
(2) SW, there would be additional cost for hacking the BMS to accept or ignore the new cells
(3) Others? Please comment

Stripped out the Plaid can do 8.77, can you imagine 1000lbs removed on top of that? 7.99? Think its possible?
 
  • urban legend/bowser: Here are the specs for the Rimac which is about 5,100 lbs, 4 motors while plaid is 4,800 lbs, 3 motors:

  • POWER(1.4 MW)
    1.914 HP
  • TORQUE
    2.360 NM
  • ACCELERATION0-60 MPH
    1.85 SEC
    0-180 MPH
    9.3 SEC
    1/4 MILE TIME
    8.6 SEC
  • TOP SPEED
    258 MPH

  • BATTERY CAPACITY
    120 KWH



  • They both use the grippy michelin pilot 4s tire so it becomes apparent traction is one of the limiting acceleration factors as the additional 900 HP doesn't lower 1/4 mile time that much. Tesla Plaid channel tests indicates nitto drag radials no faster than 21's on PS or 19's on Pirellis which leads me to believe (and the motor torque curve flat until 80mph as geared) that tesla limits torque output at all speeds so a 1,000 pound lighter plaid wouldn't be any faster 0-80 mph, but the gains may come between 80-162 mph(which i have read is speed limit unless control system hacked) in the quarter mile. Also i understand the plaid control system wants tire diameters to be around 28 inches which limits choices. The youtubers report about 2% battery use per 1/4 mile run which is about 2 KW used, so to be able to use plaid as anything but a one pass car would require heavier drag battery pack negating the weight savings. It seems to me to get significant acceleration improvements will require a control system rework and a way to use dragstrip tires on all 4 wheels that can be heated with burnout (like a top fuel dragster) or induce significant downforce using a vacuum to increase traction. As i consider the cost and complexity of making improvements to the plaid for minor performance improvements, i am in awe of what tesla has accomplished and perhaps will wait to see if the roadster is produced in the next year and gets me where i want to be without turning a wrench!...
 
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Mash

Active Member
Supporting Member
Nov 10, 2019
1,317
1,184
Prague
  • urban legend/bowser: Here are the specs for the Rimac which is about 5,100 lbs, 4 motors while plaid is 4,800 lbs, 3 motors:

  • POWER(1.4 MW)
    1.914 HP
  • TORQUE
    2.360 NM
  • ACCELERATION0-60 MPH
    1.85 SEC
    0-180 MPH
    9.3 SEC
    1/4 MILE TIME
    8.6 SEC
  • TOP SPEED
    258 MPH

  • BATTERY CAPACITY
    120 KWH



  • They both use the grippy michelin pilot 4s tire so it becomes apparent traction is one of the limiting acceleration factors as the additional 900 HP doesn't lower 1/4 mile time that much. Tesla Plaid channel tests indicates nitto drag radials no faster than 21's on PS or 19's on Pirellis which leads me to believe (and the motor torque curve flat until 80mph as geared) that tesla limits torque output at all speeds so a 1,000 pound lighter plaid wouldn't be any faster 0-80 mph, but the gains may come between 80-162 mph(which i have read is speed limit unless control system hacked) in the quarter mile. Also i understand the plaid control system wants tire diameters to be around 28 inches which limits choices. The youtubers report about 2% battery use per 1/4 mile run which is about 2 KW used, so to be able to use plaid as anything but a one pass car would require heavier drag battery pack negating the weight savings. It seems to me to get significant acceleration improvements will require a control system rework and a way to use dragstrip tires on all 4 wheels that can be heated with burnout (like a top fuel dragster) or induce significant downforce using a vacuum to increase traction. As i consider the cost and complexity of making improvements to the plaid for minor performance improvements, i am in awe of what tesla has accomplished and perhaps will wait to see if the roadster is produced in the next year and gets me where i want to be without turning a wrench!...
We already know that decreasing weight on Plaid decreases 1/4 time including below 80. It is indeed torque limited. But with lower weight that means faster acceleration if you still have traction. Torque might be limited, because its simply maximum electrical current limit - the main thing that heats up everything post invertor.
 
We already know that decreasing weight on Plaid decreases 1/4 time including below 80. It is indeed torque limited. But with lower weight that means faster acceleration if you still have traction. Torque might be limited, because its simply maximum electrical current limit - the main thing that heats up everything post invertor.
Decreasing car weight or decreasing rotational inertia by lighter wheels/tires will NOT improve acceleration under about 80 mph as acceleration is TRACTION limited not torque limited. If the torque was not limited the plaid could melt the tires on the pavement at any speed under 80 mph. It is simple physics. Over about 80 mph the plaid needs more than 1,000 hp to break the tires loose and thus weight saving will improve acceleration as long as the control system allows it. The torque reduction below 80 mph is to make the car safe to drive at maximum acceleration and protection of the driveline for longevity reasons as well. Beyond the traction issue, this tesla is so sophisticated i wouldn't be surprised if accelerometers or calculations via GPS aren't used as well to limit acceleration performance.
 

Mash

Active Member
Supporting Member
Nov 10, 2019
1,317
1,184
Prague
Decreasing car weight or decreasing rotational inertia by lighter wheels/tires will NOT improve acceleration under about 80 mph as acceleration is TRACTION limited not torque limited. If the torque was not limited the plaid could melt the tires on the pavement at any speed under 80 mph. It is simple physics. Over about 80 mph the plaid needs more than 1,000 hp to break the tires loose and thus weight saving will improve acceleration as long as the control system allows it. The torque reduction below 80 mph is to make the car safe to drive at maximum acceleration and protection of the driveline for longevity reasons as well. Beyond the traction issue, this tesla is so sophisticated i wouldn't be surprised if accelerometers or calculations via GPS aren't used as well to limit acceleration performance.
It's not traction limited if you put much stickier tires especially if you use fully prepped surface. It's torque limited in such case and decreasing weight improves results.

There is no torque reduction below 80. It's always torque limited at any speed. It's just reaching power limit at 80 since power = speed * torque.

I don't see a reason to debate what-ifs since we already factually know that lower weight plaid does better on drag strip. There is no real world acceleration limit, just torque, power, speed and slip limits.
 
I mentioned CCBS/carbon fiber wheels/4th motor. The 4th motor’s power could be used as torque fill after 90 mph or whatever. I’m talking for highway runs. CCBS/carbon fiber would add some speed via unsparing weight and better stopping power at highway speeds.

I know nothing about 1/4 mile. I’ll stay out of that subject.
 
It's not traction limited if you put much stickier tires especially if you use fully prepped surface. It's torque limited in such case and decreasing weight improves results.

There is no torque reduction below 80. It's always torque limited at any speed. It's just reaching power limit at 80 since power = speed * torque.

I don't see a reason to debate what-ifs since we already factually know that lower weight plaid does better on drag strip. There is no real world acceleration limit, just torque, power, speed and slip limits.
Mash , I don't mean to be argumentative or stifle debate, but i try to interject truths and understanding where appropriate while being humble to accept i don't know everything and could make a mistake. But as a BSME with extensive experience in vehicle dynamics and an understanding of the physics involved and understanding how to model with equations and computer programs, i tend to "call out" the "errors" as i seem them to try to keep the threads as beneficial as possible. With that being said...

If you have seen the plaid torque curve it is flat to 80 mph where peak power is reached and then toque decreases as speed increases so it is in this part of the 1/4 mile acceleration where the rotational and static mass reduction gains show results in lower et and faster trap speeds.
 
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You would need 2600 kW of braking power for that. So slightly more than 10 times of invertor and battery limits. Not yet.
Yes and No. The plaid is so amazing that the amount of energy and power to go around 0-100 and 100-0 are about the same as it is done in about the same amount of time and therefore the battery/invertor that supply all the energy/power in one direction doing the acceleration in theory should be able to have power flow the opposite direction just as quickly. While i don't know invertor specs, i do know that one of the limitations of the regenerative braking is that the batteries can't be charged as quickly as they can be discharged, which is why it seems regenerative braking is limited when the battery is fully charged and tesla recommends using a slow charger to increase battery life.
 
I mentioned CCBS/carbon fiber wheels/4th motor. The 4th motor’s power could be used as torque fill after 90 mph or whatever. I’m talking for highway runs. CCBS/carbon fiber would add some speed via unsparing weight and better stopping power at highway speeds.

I know nothing about 1/4 mile. I’ll stay out of that subject.
Yes, And i see tesla now offers the ccb's as an upgrade for $20K.
 

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