How to make plaid accelerate faster ?

[Mash]

Mash , I don't mean to be argumentative or stifle debate, but i try to interject truths and understanding where appropriate while being humble to accept i don't know everything and could make a mistake. But as a BSME with extensive experience in vehicle dynamics and an understanding of the physics involved and understanding how to model with equations and computer programs, i tend to "call out" the "errors" as i seem them to try to keep the threads as beneficial as possible. With that being said...

If you have seen the plaid torque curve it is flat to 80 mph where peak power is reached and then toque decreases as speed increases so it is in this part of the 1/4 mile acceleration where the rotational and static mass reduction gains show results in lower et and faster trap speeds.

I appreciate you being polite. Let's keep it this way.

So which particular point you debate with me?

It is torque limited and with drag strip tires and surface it would not be traction limited. So that means lower weight would give you faster acceleration.

 

[Mash]

Yes and No. The plaid is so amazing that the amount of energy and power to go around 0-100 and 100-0 are about the same as it is done in about the same amount of time and therefore the battery/invertor that supply all the energy/power in one direction doing the acceleration in theory should be able to have power flow the opposite direction just as quickly. While i don't know invertor specs, i do know that one of the limitations of the regenerative braking is that the batteries can't be charged as quickly as they can be discharged, which is why it seems regenerative braking is limited when the battery is fully charged and tesla recommends using a slow charger to increase battery life.

You are limited by batteries charge limits and by the fact that above 80mph you would not have motors capacity to produce enough electricity from required braking power. It's ok that you acceleration torque drops with speed, but not braking torque. Not at all.

So if you want to remove friction brakes you need invertor, motor and batteries be able to accept 2600 kW of braking power.

Also you would need to be able to accept all that even at 100% battery charge. I made a calcs before - it's a very large chunk of supercapacitors to be able to buffer all that indefinitely + you still need a battery with ~15C charging capability (currently it's 3C). It's doable, but it's not cheap at all.

Hopefully they can do it in the Roadster and keep parking/emergency brake only. Much much better braking control, better energy saving while racing. I think it's 5% chance. Still better chance than voicecoil operated dampers. Ideas are free, execution is painfully expensive.

 

[Mash]

I mentioned CCBS/carbon fiber wheels/4th motor. The 4th motor’s power could be used as torque fill after 90 mph or whatever. I’m talking for highway runs. CCBS/carbon fiber would add some speed via unsparing weight and better stopping power at highway speeds.

I know nothing about 1/4 mile. I’ll stay out of that subject.

You don't need additional motors to fill anything. It's just once you at maximum power - your acceleration would decline with speed no matter what.

There is no stopping power advantage of carbon brakes (I have them). Only higher heat capacity for repeated stops. But large enough iron brakes have the same capacity and better ventilation, so longer life under repetitive braking. So the only advantage of CCB is slightly lower weight and slightly less dust. And bling.

 

[Unclepaul]

Imagine that lighter wheels and stickier tires might give you the best seat of the pants feeling improvement.

OP already has perhaps the fastest 4 door family sedan in the World, but wants even faster quicker

 

[RSpanner]

Maybe another Darwin Award?

1995 Darwin Award: JATO Rocket Car

Darwin Award: JATO Rocket Car: The Arizona Highway Patrol, when they came upon a pile of smoldering metal imbedded into the side of a cliff rising above the road, at the apex of a curve. The wreckage resembled the site of an airplane crash, but it was a car. The type of car was unidentifiable

darwinawards.com

alas... I was a myth...

 

[URBAN LEGEND]

You don't need additional motors to fill anything. It's just once you at maximum power - your acceleration would decline with speed no matter what.

There is no stopping power advantage of carbon brakes (I have them). Only higher heat capacity for repeated stops. But large enough iron brakes have the same capacity and better ventilation, so longer life under repetitive braking. So the only advantage of CCB is slightly lower weight and slightly less dust. And bling.

Whatever you say. For sure not engaging. You are 100 percent right on everything. Simple and easy.

 

[URBAN LEGEND]

Yes, And i see tesla now offers the ccb's as an upgrade for $20K.

I don’t think they have ever been in stock. WTF?

 

[newplaid]

I don’t think they have ever been in stock. WTF?

Model S Plaid Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit

Available Early 2023 Designed for the ultimate track experience, the Model S Plaid Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit is a complete hardware package that delivers maximum, repeatable stopping power during high-performance driving. Our rotors feature continuous-fiber technology and are constructed in a...

shop.tesla.com

 

[newplaid]

Imagine that lighter wheels and stickier tires might give you the best seat of the pants feeling improvement.

OP already has perhaps the fastest 4 door family sedan in the World, but wants even faster quicker

This is America where too much is never enough!

 

[newplaid]

I appreciate you being polite. Let's keep it this way.

So which particular point you debate with me?

It is torque limited and with drag strip tires and surface it would not be traction limited. So that means lower weight would give you faster acceleration.

I am not interested in debating what my calculations and real world measurements have confirmed! IT would be better to see if you or anyone knows how to data log via hacking into the tesla controls via the in car screen so we can measure all the performance parameters to know for sure what is going on. Do you own a plaid and do you know how to access performance stats? Anyone know how to access and data log as what is easily available i.e., kwh for a trip or battery charge % is not that useful for the performances we are trying to measure?

 

[Mash]

I am not interested in debating what my calculations and real world measurements have confirmed! IT would be better to see if you or anyone knows how to data log via hacking into the tesla controls via the in car screen so we can measure all the performance parameters to know for sure what is going on. Do you own a plaid and do you know how to access performance stats? Anyone know how to access and data log as what is easily available i.e., kwh for a trip or battery charge % is not that useful for the performances we are trying to measure?

So you just not going to talk to the point?

Instead you going to double down on this insane idea that weight reduction doesn't increase acceleration, because you made "calculations".

I'm still surprised when people can't admit that they might be wrong and instead going on a crazy train full speed. I'm sorry, Michael...

 

[NewbyMaybe]

Remove the sideview mirrors. Chop the top all the way, use a front cam to see the track. Lower the car all the way, avoid bumps. Drive naked to reduce weight.

 

[newplaid]

Decreasing car weight or decreasing rotational inertia by lighter wheels/tires will NOT improve acceleration under about 80 mph as acceleration is TRACTION limited not torque limited. If the torque was not limited the plaid could melt the tires on the pavement at any speed under 80 mph. It is simple physics. Over about 80 mph the plaid needs more than 1,000 hp to break the tires loose and thus weight saving will improve acceleration as long as the control system allows it. The torque reduction below 80 mph is to make the car safe to drive at maximum acceleration and protection of the driveline for longevity reasons as well. Beyond the traction issue, this tesla is so sophisticated i wouldn't be surprised if accelerometers or calculations via GPS aren't used as well to limit acceleration performance.

Youtube link to rimac vs plaid 1/4 mile dragrace. See 12.56 where from inside plaid speed is 64 mph while even with rimac at start of drag race , but at 12.57 where plaid speed is 90 mph Rimac starts to pull away. This shows both are traction limited initially and once plaid hits ~ 70 mph it is power limited and rimac pulls away still traction limited to about 120 mph. Over 120 mph rimac continues to out accelerate plaid due to additional ~ 900 HP. This validates my postings! You can see Mash less weight, lighter tires/wheels don't matter during the acceleration phase where the cars are traction limited!

 

[newplaid]

Anyone know how to hack into tesla control system to access performance data like power to wheels, battery temp, etc. for data logging and determining how to improve performance?

Any Tesla model s plaid engineers looking for some side income? : )

 

[newplaid]

Remove the sideview mirrors. Chop the top all the way, use a front cam to see the track. Lower the car all the way, avoid bumps. Drive naked to reduce weight.

If you are a good looking single female, want to be my co-pilot when we drive naked to reduce weight and test newd time in 1/4 mile run? : )

 

[newplaid]

For those wanting to know more about the math behind the plaids performance and engineering details of its construction here are a few youtube channels and videos of the many wonderful ones they offer. This may inspire some of you to become engineers and give me suggestions!

Newbymaybe- one way to improve plaids acceleration is to wash and wax the car as a clean car has less aero friction drag which increase with the square of speed and thus more beneficial the faster the car is driven.

 

[NewbyMaybe]

Racing stripes add 1/10hp each.

 

[newplaid]

Racing stripes add 1/10hp each.

Only on Honda Civic's with fart can mufflers! Usually their window stickers with performance names add power too : )

 

[BowserP3D]

Weight reduction does increase acceleration up to the point of traction but you’re comparing the traction limit of two cars based on their listed marketing specs which isn’t good data, but it’s all you have, which is why you’re asking for engineers to help you get real data.

Btw I recall brooks from “dragtimes” YouTube channel had a performance data device in his model 3, before he got the plaid. He did drift/track testing using the device amongst other things, it showed power and torque I recall.

Torque and amps are directly correlated, so you have to increase amps if you want more torque and power to the motor… plus the motor has its own physical limits to how it’s constructed, force and heat etc…the issue with increasing amps is the electronics to do that in the inverter power section are called igbts and they are designed with certain amp limits, once you pass that limit they will burn up….many issues with igbts…they are very expensive for what you’d need for a plaid inverter, the burning could damage other equipment on the inverter, just not a good idea to push more torque out of the same motor inverters.

New race inverters would be costly…..

I think reducing weight by using drag racing battery that could save 1000lbs is the best bang for the buck….only sw needed would be to spoof the bms to “think” it was working with the stock battery. Anything else I’m missing?

How much thrust could a diy cold gas thruster add anyway? I’m serious I’d like to know because even engineering explained YouTube guy got it wrong!

 

[Bouba]

Would an oversize rear spoiler give you better acceleration ?