How to save a lot of time on long trips

[tomas]

Best not to supercharge to 100% for two reasons ...

• The charging taper is significantly 2X slower between 80-100%
• You may also receive idle charges if you stay over the grace period

Take a look at the Tesla Supercharging graph below: Supercharger | Tesla

View attachment 215480

Wow. Amazing to me someone would disagree with a factual post. Or are some people just disagreeable? Or anti-fact?

 

[David99]

Best not to supercharge to 100% for two reasons ...

• The charging taper is significantly 2X slower between 80-100%
• You may also receive idle charges if you stay over the grace period

Did you even read my original post?

 

[TexasEV]

I think y'all are talking past each other. It's one thing to set the charge limit to 100% so it charges the entIre time you're eating dinner or are otherwise occupied. It's another thing to wait for the car to slowly charge to 100% if you don't need those last few miles to continue on your trip.

 

[bxr140]

Wow. Amazing to me someone would disagree with a factual post. Or are some people just disagreeable? Or anti-fact?

Your concern would be justified, had it been a completely factual post.

1. Fact-by-association doesn't work on the internet . The first bullet was true. The second was not. That the first was true does not qualify the post as "factual".
2. Despite multiple posts in this thread and others dissecting 'charging theory' to the n-th 'effing degree (some of them by me, BTW) people still get it wrong--as is the case with the post to which you refer. The disagreements explicitly point out that error.

 

[brianman]

So let me be sure I understand your theory. You are saying that if I need to charge to 60% at my next Supercharger stop, it is better to arrive with 5% than to arrive with 30%? I doubt it.

If you arrived with 5% by driving ("reasonably legally" and safely) faster from the last supercharger than you would by arriving with 30%, then definitely yes.

 

[BerTX]

If you arrived with 5% by driving ("reasonably legally" and safely) faster from the last supercharger than you would by arriving with 30%, then definitely yes.

So which Tesla battery size charges faster from 5% to 60% than from 30% to 60%? None. Just not possible.

I agree that keeping battery level as low as safely possible will make for a faster trip UNLESS you are staying at a stop longer anyway, then you might as well keep charging. It will make your next stop a little shorter.

 

[brianman]

So which Tesla battery size charges faster from 5% to 80% than from 30% to 80%? None. Just not possible.

That's not what anyone suggested. You're misunderstanding the point being made.

 

[BerTX]

That's not what anyone suggested. You're misunderstanding the point being made.

Yeah, I think there was a lot of misunderstanding going on back then (2 weeks ago). I'd just as soon not dredge it all back up. I'll just admit I shouldn't have posted what I did. Everybody was agreeing, including me, and I approached it in a bad way.

 

[FlatSix911]

Best not to supercharge to 100% for two reasons ...

• The charging taper is significantly 2X slower between 80-100%
• You may also receive idle charges if you stay over the grace period

Take a look at the Tesla Supercharging graph below: Supercharger | Tesla
View attachment 215480

this is not correct, if you are charging then there is no worries about being assessed any charges.

Incorrect, I am talking about after reaching 100%, you will be charged if you stay over the grace period... 5 minutes.

Your concern would be justified, had it been a completely factual post.

1. Fact-by-association doesn't work on the internet (unless you're POTUS...). The first bullet was true. The second was not. That the first was true does not qualify the post as "factual".
2. Despite multiple posts in this thread and others dissecting 'charging theory' to the n-th 'effing degree (some of them by me, BTW) people still get it wrong--as is the case with the post to which you refer. The disagreements explicitly point out that error.

this is not correct, if you are charging then there is no worries about being assessed any charges.

Hard to argue with facts ...

 

[Cyclone]

isnt it advisable to calculate rated miles needed to your next stop + buffer, then set the charge limit to 100% in order to avoid idle charges? Then you can monitor the SOC on the phone app and head back and unhook when you get what you need. I don't want to pay idle charges if I happen to set it on 150 and get held up at a meal stop. Or am I misunderstanding how idle charges are applied?

Idle fees are not based on being "full". Idle fees, if applicable, are charged for being plugged in but not charging. So if your settings are to charge to 50% and you hit that, Supercharging stops and idle fees begin, even if you need 70% to reach your next stop.

 

[tomas]

Idle fees are not based on being "full". Idle fees, if applicable, are charged for being plugged in but not charging. So if your settings are to charge to 50% and you hit that, Supercharging stops and idle fees begin, even if you need 70% to reach your next stop.

True. And also got to wonder how it handles the endless trickle from 99% to 100%. Is that considered charging, or not charging? Hopefully not charging.

 

[Captroth]

What does the charging curve look like on s60d? The battery pack is in reality a75 so charging to 100% is not 100% but 80% of the battery capacity. I'm planning a long trip so this might impact planned stops.

 

[David99]

What does the charging curve look like on s60d? The battery pack is in reality a75 so charging to 100% is not 100% but 80% of the battery capacity. I'm planning a long trip so this might impact planned stops.

It charges like a 75 and then cuts off once it reaches 60 kW. You will see it keeps a higher charge rate. Some confuse this and think the 60 charges faster. Of course that's not the case. 100% on a software limited 60 is really 80% on a 75. The amount of energy added to the battery happens at the exact same rate at the 75. Say you start at 10% battery level. In 40 min you will add 120 rated miles. This will be the same on the 60 and 75.

 

[xyeahtony]

I saw videos online where the 60 (75kwh battery) doesn't taper as it gets to 100% so you enjoy the quick speed. Part of the reason i decided to go with the 60 v 75. Similar charging speeds and similar overall trip times. To upgrade to a 90 was not worth the extra $20k for me to do maybe 1 roadtrip a year to save a couple hours.

 

[David99]

I saw videos online where the 60 (75kwh battery) doesn't taper as it gets to 100% so you enjoy the quick speed.

It doesn't charge faster. On the 60 the 100% point is just set lower. 100% on the 60 is not the same as 100% on the 75. The video (I think it's by Bjorn) has both cars set to percentage rather than energy/miles. It's misleading.

 

[Ugliest1]

I want to mention that all this talk about it's better to arrive with less battery percentage and enjoy a longer period of non-tapered charging, is true and all, but in my experience it really doesn't matter in the course of a long trip (YMMV). When we first got our car in 2014 and went on a 12,500 mile (17,000km) trip, initially I was recording numbers, calculating percentages, timing everything, and boy, what a pain. It was more complicated to figure out when I should stop charging at SC.a so that I would be around 5-10% (while still leaving a reasonable buffer in case of rain, detours, whatever) so I could get the "best" charge at SC.b. At most, including the 10-15 minutes of all the recording and calculating, I figure I saved maybe 0 minutes per leg. Or maybe 5 minutes, or -5 minutes.

A lot of angst over, in my view, nothing worth worrying about. Now, I charge to somewhere between 20-30% more than EVTripPlanner says I need as a very comfortable buffer. Sometimes I arrive at a charger with (yikes!) 40% left. OH NO! Except from my get out and have lunch or go for a walk perspective, the car is usually ready before I'm finished anyway. So all the worrying about taper is (usually) moot.

Sorry for the rant. I just want new owners to realize that all the number-crunching really is not necessary; they can just get in their car and drive (I do recommend using EVTripPlanner though, and sending some college support money towards the site owners).

[EDIT] However, it's very important, when you have the choice, to *NOT* pull in and charge to a charger that is paired with a car already plugged in. The pairs are by number (1A and 1B, 2A and 2B, etc). So if a car is parked at 1B, don't use 1A -- you'll only get what's left over from the "primary" (first in) car, and you won't know when they started charging. Your speed will go up as they taper... but if you use an empty pair, you'll get 100% of whatever your car can take from minute 1.

 

[bxr140]

I just want new owners to realize that all the number-crunching really is not necessary...

I don’t think you’ve framed your point properly, and in doing so you’ve conflated the point of this thread—which is the ability for someone to minimize trip time—with your personal need (or lack thereof) to minimize trip time.

To be clear, there’s no question that implementing a methodology to minimize total trip time will result in the shortest trip time for a particular person. Route selection, charger selection, charge frequency, % departure bogeys, % arrival bogeys…your post suggests that effort is in vain; that part of your post does not represent the greater experience/reality.

There’s also no question that some people don’t need to implement those time saving measures because they either a) spend their time differently at superchargers and don’t end up waiting for their car anyway or b) place minimal/no value on the opportunity to save minutes (or more) per leg. That’s a very valid perspective and approach to supercharging, but it is immaterial in this thread.

Bottom line, if you find yourself waiting for your car at superchargers and you find that annoying/frustrating/whatever, you will benefit from time saving charging methodology (if you’re not already doing so). That's it. Its not about personal preference, its not about trying to make someone do something they don't want to do. Its not about disagreeing with one philosophy or another. Its about the fact that you WILL save time if you try.

 

[Ugliest1]

Bottom line, if you find yourself waiting for your car at superchargers and you find that annoying/frustrating/whatever, you will benefit from time saving charging methodology (if you’re not already doing so). That's it. Its not about personal preference, its not about trying to make someone do something they don't want to do. Its not about disagreeing with one philosophy or another. Its about the fact that you WILL save time if you try.

Point taken, good post.

 

[xkwizit]

Having done several trips long and short in last 18months with our S and X, I agree with @Ugliest1 and @bxr140.

From some of the other posts I have across in TMC from frustrated new owners, I believe that it is a mindset change. With ICE vehicles, we get used to making a pit stop at the gas station, passengers dashing to the restroom or the store while one person fills up the gas and in less than 10min you are back on the road.

With electric vehicles, you have to plan for longer stops which could be an issue for families with young kids as there isn't much at a SC to keep them busy for half an hour or more. If you are able to manage your charging stops to coincide with meals, that helps a lot.

However, it cannot be denied that the longer stops result in everyone arriving fresher at the destination. It does help to improve the trip quality.

But yes, when traveling by yourself, I would welcome faster charging technology that gets my car charged in say 15min.

 

[Captroth]

It charges like a 75 and then cuts off once it reaches 60 kW. You will see it keeps a higher charge rate. Some confuse this and think the 60 charges faster. Of course that's not the case. 100% on a software limited 60 is really 80% on a 75. The amount of energy added to the battery happens at the exact same rate at the 75. Say you start at 10% battery level. In 40 min you will add 120 rated miles. This will be the same on the 60 and 75.

Thanks for the comments. I'll find out soon enough and let everyone know what happens.