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How to sue Tesla over historical claims

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as we know that NOA, Lane Change, Autopark, and summon work on cars with HW2.5 and EAP.
Uhhhh... "work" is a relative term. I have a late 2017 S75 with HW2.5 MCU1, and EAP. Autopark is batting about 250 for me, Summon was a joke at best and now is pretty much inoperable. NoA works pretty well, but disengages on MANY interchanges and I live in Tesla's backyard (SF South Bay Area, i.e. there should be plenty of acquired AP data on these roads), Lane change seems to work fine. The MCU1 has been on-again/off-again problems about 3 years now.
I may be hitting you up @gearchruncher via PM to gauge whether I want to take a shot at bringing a SCC case here in CA.

Oh... also, isn't EAP now an option again? Can't people upgrade to EAP to get 80% of the FSD features?
 
Especially considering no other automakers are raising prices. It’s unbelievable. /s
Are other brands raising prices by 50% in 2 years time? The Model S LR+ price was (infamously) dropped to $69,420 (combining Elon's two fav numbers, to beat Lucid's then claimed base price of ~$72k) in the fall of 2020, right at the peak of the pandemic and supply chain issues.
2 years later, the price is now $104,990; this is a 51% increase in price, with hardly any / very little (IMO) improvement in the product offering.
As a comparison, the Lucid Air's base price is now $87,400 (granted with availability of that price being "later" next year) which is roughly 21% higher than what they talked about in 2020.
To go with one of the worlds most popular vehicles: In the fall of 2020, a '21 Ford F-150 XLT had a base price of $42,355. Right now, a '23 F-150 XLT base is $48,155 or a 13% increase in price.

Tesla's pricing is way out of line. They had a decent, and expected (as production experience is gained) trend of dropping the price throughout 2018, '19, and '20, through combination of actual cost decreasing, and/or features being added in as standard with no increase in price. This stopped at the end of 2020 and it's been out of control increases since then.
 
Can you think of what happened around 2020 that could explain this? 🤔
As I said, by fall of 2020 when the price was dropped to $69420, the pandemic and supply chain issues were already in full swing.
Other manufacturers raised prices too, just not as much as Tesla.
I get the "supply and demand" argument; duh. But Tesla has gone above and beyond here, IMO, to the point of violating their mission. They should be working to make EVs more accessible to more people. JMHO.
 
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Are other brands raising prices by 50% in 2 years time? The Model S LR+ price was (infamously) dropped to $69,420 (combining Elon's two fav numbers, to beat Lucid's then claimed base price of ~$72k) in the fall of 2020, right at the peak of the pandemic and supply chain issues.
2 years later, the price is now $104,990; this is a 51% increase in price, with hardly any / very little (IMO) improvement in the product offering.
As a comparison, the Lucid Air's base price is now $87,400 (granted with availability of that price being "later" next year) which is roughly 21% higher than what they talked about in 2020.
To go with one of the worlds most popular vehicles: In the fall of 2020, a '21 Ford F-150 XLT had a base price of $42,355. Right now, a '23 F-150 XLT base is $48,155 or a 13% increase in price.

Tesla's pricing is way out of line. They had a decent, and expected (as production experience is gained) trend of dropping the price throughout 2018, '19, and '20, through combination of actual cost decreasing, and/or features being added in as standard with no increase in price. This stopped at the end of 2020 and it's been out of control increases since then.
The dealer discounts also changed significantly. Used to be pretty easy to get a vehicle for less than MSRP. Then for a long time it was hard to even get one for MSRP. Not sure how things are right now.
 
As I said, by fall of 2020 when the price was dropped to $69420, the pandemic and supply chain issues were already in full swing.
Other manufacturers raised prices too, just not as much as Tesla.
I get the "supply and demand" argument; duh. But Tesla has gone above and beyond here, IMO, to the point of violating their mission. They should be working to make EVs more accessible to more people. JMHO.
If you can explain why used Teslas were selling for more than new Teslas, you may be heading in the right direction.
 
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They should be working to make EVs more accessible to more people. JMHO.

Makes no sense. They sell every car they can make. They raised prices. The backlog got bigger. Maybe you shouldn't dismiss the "supply and demand" argument so easily.

Tesla makes EVs accessible to more people by forcing legacy auto to make the transition to EVs. They alone cannot possibly meet long term demand.
 
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I recieved a good suggestion and moved some posts to this new thread…

 
Looks like the TMC news aggregator bot picked up this story.

Wow. That’s amazing. Good for him.
Wonder if there’s a similar path for people who purchased a car with USS or radar and then had it delivered without those capabilities and “promise” of Tesla Vison in the “future”.
 
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Wow. That’s amazing. Good for him.
Wonder if there’s a similar path for people who purchased a car with USS or radar and then had it delivered without those capabilities and “promise” of Tesla Vison in the “future”.
You'd have to prove that you are missing features that were promised when you purchased the car. For someone who received a car without USS, they didn't technically purchase the car until they accepted delivery and that was known at the time...so doubtful.

Radar would be even more difficult as all features promised on vision that were available on radar have been deliver. The only thing I could see is the 5 mph difference in radar vs. vision, but that's a huge stretch.
 
Wow. That’s amazing. Good for him.
Wonder if there’s a similar path for people who purchased a car with USS or radar and then had it delivered without those capabilities and “promise” of Tesla Vison in the “future”.
The purchase scenario, likely no. You ordered the car with them, but at the time of delivery they were removed. You can simply deny delivery and walk away. You may have a case for the nonrefundable order fee, but that's about it. If you claim you didn't know at the time of delivery that hardware was removed, you may be able to convince a judge, but remember that ignorance is rarely a defense.
 
You'd have to prove that you are missing features that were promised when you purchased the car. For someone who received a car without USS, they didn't technically purchase the car until they accepted delivery and that was known at the time...so doubtful.
I don't agree. If a company advertises a feature, it is not up to the buyer to fully verify that claim before purchase. Tesla doesn't allow you to test drive cars before they deliver them, and it is unreasonable to expect a buyer to fully check every feature on a complex product like a car. Think of all the products in the world that come in a box that cannot be inspected. The Uniform Commercial Code covers this. You do not get to falsely describe your product and then claim it's the buyer's fault for not inspecting before completing the purchase. For instance, you really expect every buyer to test the horsepower or top speed of every car? This is literally what warranties are for- when the product doesn't do what it says.

But this isn't the reason here. The reason is "cars have all hardware needed for FSD." If Tesla starts only allowing cars with USS/Radar to use FSD, then you have a claim. If they make FSD work without it, then no claim. That was the issue here- they specifically told me that I could only buy FSD if I also bought hardware.

But USS isn't just for FSD of course, it's also parking assistance. If you bought a car, it was advertised as having a function, and it doesn't, then you might have a claim. The thing is you have to COMPLAIN to Tesla first, and right away. A judge will be interested if you get the car, and a week later you are like "Tesla, how come I don't have parking assist!???" Then Tesla says "it's coming in a software update." Then you wait 6 months, ask again, and if it's not there, sue.

It's a lot less effective to sit around, just reading stuff on the internet, and then suddenly show up 2 years later with a claim, having never documented it with Tesla before.

All of this is why Tesla has been getting better about telling people what is removed from the cars. I know with Radar they sent every pending order an email telling them about the change ahead of delivery. That doesn't fix the "all HW needed for FSD" claim though.
 
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I don't agree. If a company advertises a feature, it is not up to the buyer to fully verify that claim before purchase. Tesla doesn't allow you to test drive cars before they deliver them, and it is unreasonable to expect a buyer to fully check every feature on a complex product like a car. Think of all the products in the world that come in a box that cannot be inspected. The Uniform Commercial Code covers this. You do not get to falsely describe your product and then claim it's the buyer's fault for not inspecting before completing the purchase. For instance, you really expect every buyer to test the horsepower or top speed of every car? This is literally what warranties are for- when the product doesn't do what it says.

But this isn't the reason here. The reason is "cars have all hardware needed for FSD." If Tesla starts only allowing cars with USS/Radar to use FSD, then you have a claim. If they make FSD work without it, then no claim. That was the issue here- they specifically told me that I could only buy FSD if I also bought hardware.

But USS isn't just for FSD of course, it's also parking assistance. If you bought a car, it was advertised as having a function, and it doesn't, then you might have a claim. The thing is you have to COMPLAIN to Tesla first, and right away. A judge will be interested if you get the car, and a week later you are like "Tesla, how come I don't have parking assist!???" Then Tesla says "it's coming in a software update." Then you wait 6 months, ask again, and if it's not there, sue.

It's a lot less effective to sit around, just reading stuff on the internet, and then suddenly show up 2 years later with a claim, having never documented it with Tesla before.

All of this is why Tesla has been getting better about telling people what is removed from the cars. I know with Radar they sent every pending order an email telling them about the change ahead of delivery. That doesn't fix the "all HW needed for FSD" claim though.
They announced that those features were being removed before any deliveries. Just like those who purchased a vision only car, they notified buyers prior to or at delivery as we've seen here from numerous people. It's similar to the Vision only message they sent. Even if they hit "acknowledge" and didn't read, I don't think that would stand in court.


So as of now they don't have a claim, but I'd agree if the parking sensors/assist or FSD abilities aren't delivered, then there could be a case.

That's what the long awaited v11 should provide.

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I guess I don't understand how this wasn't outside statute of limitations. If your claim was basically under the lemon law, then it is hard to believe you were within the 24 months/24,000 miles limit since delivery for that to apply. I guess it may vary state to state?