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How will Enhanced AP deal with snow & salt?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by ElectricTundra, Dec 14, 2016.

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  1. ElectricTundra

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    So far this year I've had more instances of both Steering and TACC unavailable due to snow or crude blocking the sensors than I think in the two previous winters put together. How will Tesla handle this reliably with the new sensors?
     
  2. rhumbliner

    rhumbliner Member

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  3. ev-now

    ev-now Member

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    Although related, that thread does not address whether EAP has any planned tricks to improve over AP1.
     
  4. croman

    croman Active Member

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    The front bumper in the AP2 vehicles is apparently slightly different and the radar is located in a harder area to obscure with road based crud. That's all I've heard and it might not do much. I'll tell you in a week! Chicago is covered with snow/salt/crud. We're getting more snow right around my delivery (it will certainly be a white Christmas).
     
  5. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

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    Bjorn has had this problem with his X. He needs to chip away the snow on the front bumper for the radar to work. I think AP2.0 uses the same radar. Re the cameras: if they get covered, they should be useless.
     
  6. ElectricTundra

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    Which tends to say that driverless or AP2 will have some rather huge gaping holes? It may work in ideal conditions but not many conditions less than ideal? Will filling this hole require additional sensors?
     
  7. DrWumbo

    DrWumbo Member

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    All the cameras on AP 2 equipped cars have heaters to melt away any ice/snow that is covering them.
     
  8. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

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    Right. Now let's see this in action
     
  9. DriverOne

    DriverOne Supporting Member

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    My rear view camera is pretty useless in the rain, let alone ice & snow! Do the AP cameras somehow work with rain?
     
  10. ElectricTundra

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    how about salt?
     
  11. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

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    Very nice. Even the rear? I would love that.
     
  12. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

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    My AP1.0 front cam works most of the time in the rain. But in very heavy rain it won't. Radar works just fine.
     
  13. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

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    I would think so. Along with a heck of a lot more processing and AI.
     
  14. YauKwan

    YauKwan Member

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    Ap2. First time in snow. Camera did not melt snow.
     
  15. ev-now

    ev-now Member

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    Anyone take a look at their halogen headlamps after driving in dirty rain or snow? That's what heating will do when you are dealing with dirty spray - it'll just bake it on. There's a long way to go to solve these problems I believe.
     
  16. Bangor Bob

    Bangor Bob Member

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    Exactly. A heated camera evaporating the water away will result in a salty white crust over the camera - even if the roads are otherwise clear of snow there will be a wet mixture of melted snow and salt brine on the road for several hours after a snowfall, and vehicles ahead throw it into the air as a salty mist.

    I really want to see Tesla try it's cross-country autonomous drive in the winter. I80 across the northeast (yes, a few more superchargers are needed first). It would be a good experience for their engineers.

    If summoning the car over public roads is really going to be a thing, then there isn't going to be anyone present to clean off the sensors.

    Maybe this could be a new service line for the AAA. "Triple A? Yeah, my autonomous car is stranded on the highway at mile marker 240 with no-one in it, can you have someone stop by and clean the crud off the cameras?"
     
    • Funny x 3
  17. Yinn

    Yinn Member

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    In keeping with the headlight thinking.. couldn't this be solved with a high pressure (heated) washer spray?
     
  18. u00mem9

    u00mem9 Member

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    I have a refresh AP1.0 car, and I can confirm the radar is easily blocked by ice. When following other vehicles that kick up water from the road, ice builds up in the flat front and grill slit area. I noticed when TACC refused to reengage during a long drive.

    I was able to get the system working by knocking the ice out of the grill slit. I thought the radar unit was located lower behind the bumper cover, but opening the slit seemed to work enough to restore operation.

    I think it's a fair criticism and one noted by NHTSA that the system doesn't seem capable of knowing when it's sensors have been compromised. In this case it didn't notify me and shut down TACC while operating and I'm not sure it would have properly stopped for a slowing car just prior to my fix. I'm sure that will be improved in AP2.0 but if the California-centric mindset persists as it has for other topics, I can see this continuing to be an issue.
     
  19. ev-now

    ev-now Member

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    Possibly, though the first thing SC asked me when ours disabled and I told them the screen was clean was to check there weren't any water marks or film in front of the camera lens ...
     
  20. ElectricTundra

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    I think the most important bit is for the system to recognize when it can't function optimally and notify the driver. Seems to be doing this quite well today.

    I wonder if a rotating lens cover could work assuming it's made of something that won't scratch? The two options I can think of are disk and ring. These are used frequently on sports cams mounted to F1 (and now Formula E) cars or similar. One drawback is that they have to be cleaned frequently on the inside and the squeegee has to be replaced fairly often. I'd think they could be made self cleaning on the inside but no idea if there's an option to replacing the squeegee.
     

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