How will Tesla be profitable selling an electric 7-series for $57k?

[William3]

What are the big features that the 5 series has that the Model S won't?

Tesla hasn't announced the options list yet, so this is just my guess:

adaptive cruise control
side view cameras
all around camera (top down) cameras
head up display
self closing doors & trunk
power headrests
AWD (although Tesla might add it in future model years)
4 zone climate control
4 wheel steering
active sway bars & shocks
night vision

There's more, these are just off the top of my head. I've never owned a BMW and don't know much about them. Maybe a 2011 BMW 550i owner can chime in and add to this.

 

[vfx]

It better have ACC!

 

[dsm363]

Push-button start (keyless entry) too

 

[Kevin Harney]

Toyota has invested $50 million in Tesla Motors. Tesla, with Toyota, will produce all future Tesla models at the former NUMMI plant in Freemont, Calif. Roadster production will not move from the current Menlo Park, Calif., facility to Freemont because that model will be phased out in 2012.

This is what I found interesting. I had not heard this. So Bluestar, will in a sense, be a Toyota and the Roadster will be faded out in 2012 !?!?!? WOW had no idea.

 

[Jaff]

Full picture Kevin is that the Roadster in some form (probably on the Model S skateboard platform) will return at some point in time in the future.

I'm not sure about the Bluestar being manufactured by Tesla AND Toyota...

This is what I found interesting. I had not heard this. So Bluestar, will in a sense, be a Toyota and the Roadster will be faded out in 2012 !?!?!? WOW had no idea.

 

[Doug_G]

I'm not sure about the Bluestar being manufactured by Tesla AND Toyota...

Yep, and I bought this laptop from Apple, so this message was written by me and Steve Jobs. :wink:

 

[Kevin Harney]

Full picture Kevin is that the Roadster in some form (probably on the Model S skateboard platform) will return at some point in time in the future.

I'm not sure about the Bluestar being manufactured by Tesla AND Toyota...

I think that platform is pretty large for a Roadster !!

 

[Jaff]

Could very well be Kevin...I think that TM just needs to divert manpower & resources to a successful launch of the Model S & subsequent vehicles...I think they have ample time to redesign the Roadster for release a few years down the road (whether it be on the Model S platform or not).

I think that platform is pretty large for a Roadster !!

 

[Kevin Harney]

Could very well be Kevin...I think that TM just needs to divert manpower & resources to a successful launch of the Model S & subsequent vehicles...I think they have ample time to redesign the Roadster for release a few years down the road (whether it be on the Model S platform or not).

Oh I understand that but it would seem to me that if you had a functioning and selling product that was (presumably) making money that you would not phase it out until you had something better to replace it with that is all. Redesign it yes. Get rid of it No.

 

[qwk]

Oh I understand that but it would seem to me that if you had a functioning and selling product that was (presumably) making money that you would not phase it out until you had something better to replace it with that is all. Redesign it yes. Get rid of it No.

I don't think they had a choice. The Lotus assembly line that produced roadsters is getting retrofitted for a new body style.
Tesla had to order a certain number of gliders, before Lotus ceased production.

 

[vfx]

I don't think they had a choice. The Lotus assembly line that produced roadsters is getting retrofitted for a new body style.
Tesla had to order a certain number of gliders, before Lotus ceased production.

AND they said they could only build one car -at least at the start.

 

[TEG]

Tesla has lots of extra room at their new factory in California. Imagine if they got the tooling over here to keep making more 1st gen Roadster chassis...

 

[shark2k]

Tesla hasn't announced the options list yet, so this is just my guess:

adaptive cruise control
side view cameras
all around camera (top down) cameras
head up display
self closing doors & trunk
power headrests
AWD (although Tesla might add it in future model years)
4 zone climate control
4 wheel steering
active sway bars & shocks
night vision

There's more, these are just off the top of my head. I've never owned a BMW and don't know much about them. Maybe a 2011 BMW 550i owner can chime in and add to this.

Tesla (or it could have been Musk) has mentioned that they are planning on releasing an AWD version.

-Shark2k

 

[strider]

How will Tesla be profitable selling an electric Hyundai Genesis for $100K ?

Don't get me wrong, I love the Model S and will probably buy one. But you guys make it sound like a 7-Series at $100K is being sold for cost, so how can Tesla build an equivalent car for less? Gimme a break. There's like a 100% markup on those BMWs. The Model S is more like a 5-Series, not a 7-Series. And both BMW models have WAY WAY WAY more features than the model S. Tesla likes to really ream you on the optional equipment -- as us Roadster owners know all too well. Just try to configure a Model S with similar equipment as a $45K Hyundai Genesis and you'll be looking at double the cost of Genesis. Both are similar sized, but the Genesis has some features that aren't even available on the Model S. My first sentence stands. In all seriousness, does anyone here actually think that a loaded Model S will be under $100K?

First of all, considering that the S is still over a year out from production and they haven't announced what the feature list will be, how do you know that a 5 series will have more features than the Model S? Please name them. Also, both BMW and Tesla announced that they were using NVidia chips to drive their infotainment systems so parity there (and likely nod to Tesla as I haven't seen BMW advertising a 17 inch touch panel. I-Drive is a flying piece of junk as a way of interacting w/ the car yet BMW keeps using it year after year).

People buy cars for more than just a feature list. Witness the fact that a current Corvette will outperform a Porsche 911 costing 2-3X the price in EVERY measure of performance (yes, the Corvette interior sucks but I'll gladly save $50k+ and have rougher leather seats) yet people keep buying 911's.

I just priced out a loaded BMW 550i and it came to $93k. So with that benchmark a loaded S at just under $100k looks like the right target to me.

 

[William3]

I think that platform is pretty large for a Roadster !!

Here's my idea of the ideal size (and style) for the 2nd Gen Roadster.

 

[William3]

Tesla (or it could have been Musk) has mentioned that they are planning on releasing an AWD version.

The AWD version of the Model S and the Sport version of the Model S are the same thing. The extra HP of the Sport version comes from a 2nd motor powering the front wheel(s). You're right, they have mentioned it.

The AWD version of the BMW 550i is really not AWD. It is really an open differential in the rear and open differential in the front (so it's more like 2-wheel drive). The Model S will almost certainly be the same.

 

[William3]

First of all, considering that the S is still over a year out from production and they haven't announced what the feature list will be, how do you know that a 5 series will have more features than the Model S? Please name them.

I named them in in a previous post and made it clear that I was guessing at what features Tesla was going to offer in the Model S. I've had brief conversations with Elon & Zak about specific features that I was hoping to see in the Model S and they gave me a good idea of what to expect in the first model year. Those conversations were at the initial Model S party (a long time ago) so lets hope that things have changed for the better since then.

People buy cars for more than just a feature list. Witness the fact that a current Corvette will outperform a Porsche 911 costing 2-3X the price in EVERY measure of performance (yes, the Corvette interior sucks but I'll gladly save $50k+ and have rougher leather seats) yet people keep buying 911's.

I just priced out a loaded BMW 550i and it came to $93k. So with that benchmark a loaded S at just under $100k looks like the right target to me.

I agree 100%. The Corvettes are an amazing bargain. I've owned five of them. Nothing touches them for the price. The BMW 5 Series is NOT a bargain at all and their i-drive feature is painful. I predict that a loaded Model S will cost more than a loaded 5 Series, and I predict that the loaded 5 Series will have LOTS more tech/luxury features than the loaded Model S. Neither car is a bargain, but both cars are awesome and I plan on buying both.

 

[vfx]

A lot of people pay extra to be the first. The Models S early adopters will have many firsts to brag about. It's the Roadster all over again, just bigger.

I like W3's choice of sports car color but not his shirt color.

 

[TEG]

Tesla (or it could have been Musk) has mentioned that they are planning on releasing an AWD version.

Something was mentioned in the original press releases.
See here:
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/03/26/tesla-model-s-50-000-ev-sedan-seats-seven-300-mile-range-0-6/

• All-wheel-drive available (option available in future production models)

The AWD version of the Model S and the Sport version of the Model S are the same thing. The extra HP of the Sport version comes from a 2nd motor powering the front wheel(s). You're right, they have mentioned it.

Where did you learn that? I don't recall seeing word that the Sport is the same as the AWD option.

(Note, it does look like there is good room up front for another motor if they so decide...)

 

[bolosky]

The extra HP of the Sport version comes from a 2nd motor powering the front wheel(s).

Are you sure you don't mean torque rather than HP? I suspect that in the S just like the Roadster the HP limit will be the battery, not the motor. If that's the case then it doesn't matter how many motors you add, you'll still be stuck when you hit max battery power.

However, the limit up to ~40 mph in the Roadster is the torque available from the motor. A higher torque motor (and probably some differences in the PEM) is why the Roadster Sport has better 0-60 than the base Roadster, even though they have identical batteries. I'd expect that putting an extra motor on the S would have a similar effect.