alseTrick
Active Member
That is not how I read it. There is only 1 additional quarter after the 200,000 is reached, not 2.
Plug-In Electric Drive Vehicle Credit (IRC 30D)
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
That is not how I read it. There is only 1 additional quarter after the 200,000 is reached, not 2.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Not sure what you're smoking, but you can check out https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
If you really don't have $7500 of tax liability then hold off on any order you might have because afaik you get the credit whether you like it or not. If you cannot use it then it doesn't magically go to the next person. It's simply wasted. The goal is to make sure everyone who can use it, gets it.
It's one full quarter after the quarter in which the 200,000th car is delivered...
Therefore, if the 200,000th car is delivered beginning of the quarter then you have two full quarters:
Let's say delivered on January 1st, then the rest of that quarter is "free" and the one full quarter doesn't start until April. April, May, and June are full credit. Then half credit through December (because it's two full quarters), and a quarter credit through June the following year (two quarters after December).
On that same note if there was piss poor planning and that 200,000th car was delivered in the last week of March then there's no free period before the next calendar quarter. The timing of that delivery is extremely important to maximize benefits.
Last edited:
My tax bill is a whole lot more than 6k. $6k was we owed because we were not with holding enough every month. Does the tax credit only applies to what we owe when we file taxes? If someone gets a tax refund they don't get the tax credit?
melindav
☰ 2018
It's your tax liability, not what you owe, so withholdings don't matter. There are tons of other threads outlining it, but for simplicity sake here's an example:
Assume you are single and have a gross income of 50,000. You automatically get the standard single deduction of $6,300 bringing the income to 43,700. Worse case you have zero other deductions your tax liability is calculated from this at $6,725.
But if you have a kid, a house, medical expenses or any other deductions, your taxable income would be reduced before the tax liability is calculated.
cpa
Active Member
I may hate myself in the morning, but here is some "free" advice: (You can buy me a soft drink if we ever cross paths at a Supercharger.)
(1) The $7,500 (or statutorily reduced by half and then three-quarters) federal income tax credit only applies to your income tax as calculated on line 47. From that total any foreign tax credit and child care credit is deducted to determine the amount available for the plug-in vehicle credit. I would have to research if the education credits and child tax credits apply equally, but I would hazard that they too would further reduce the amount of tax available to be offset by the $7,500. I am assuming that if you are eligible for the retirement savings credit, you likely cannot afford a Model III unless you have received an inheritance or gift. All other taxes from lines 57-62 are add-on taxes and play no role in utilizing any electric vehicle credit. And the credits taken on lines 64-73 are refundable. (Yes your withholding and ES payments are considered refundable credits for the purposes of the Internal Revenue Code.) There really is a method to their madness when it comes to form design.
(2) The EVSE credit of 30% of total cost cannot be taken against your AMT liability. However, the plug-in vehicle credit can be taken against AMT. Hence many buyers who purchase a Tesla and install a HPWC or 14-50 in the same taxable year lose out on the EVSE credit. Accordingly, plan to buy your Tesla in one taxable year, and install the EVSE in another year if you do not have an AMT problem under normal circumstances.
(3) I am not trolling for business here. But I know that there are opportunities for most taxpayers to manipulate income or deductions lawfully in order to maximize receiving the greatest possible benefits from both the plug-in vehicle credit and the EVSE credit. Each person's income tax situation is different, so timing is everything. Whether you prepare your own returns or have a paid professional, make an appointment before the end of your taxable year to have your situation reviewed. They can do some planning and give you good advice. For probably $200-$250 (possibly tax deductible, YMMV) you should have a good idea if you will be able to maximize the amount of your credit(s).
I have been in this business for too many years. Nearly every year at least one of my clients makes a bonehead play and costs themselves from several hundred to thousands of dollars of income tax because they never bothered to call me before they made their decision. It just comes in the mail each March, and by then, it does no good to close the barn door, as that horse is long gone.
(1) The $7,500 (or statutorily reduced by half and then three-quarters) federal income tax credit only applies to your income tax as calculated on line 47. From that total any foreign tax credit and child care credit is deducted to determine the amount available for the plug-in vehicle credit. I would have to research if the education credits and child tax credits apply equally, but I would hazard that they too would further reduce the amount of tax available to be offset by the $7,500. I am assuming that if you are eligible for the retirement savings credit, you likely cannot afford a Model III unless you have received an inheritance or gift. All other taxes from lines 57-62 are add-on taxes and play no role in utilizing any electric vehicle credit. And the credits taken on lines 64-73 are refundable. (Yes your withholding and ES payments are considered refundable credits for the purposes of the Internal Revenue Code.) There really is a method to their madness when it comes to form design.
(2) The EVSE credit of 30% of total cost cannot be taken against your AMT liability. However, the plug-in vehicle credit can be taken against AMT. Hence many buyers who purchase a Tesla and install a HPWC or 14-50 in the same taxable year lose out on the EVSE credit. Accordingly, plan to buy your Tesla in one taxable year, and install the EVSE in another year if you do not have an AMT problem under normal circumstances.
(3) I am not trolling for business here. But I know that there are opportunities for most taxpayers to manipulate income or deductions lawfully in order to maximize receiving the greatest possible benefits from both the plug-in vehicle credit and the EVSE credit. Each person's income tax situation is different, so timing is everything. Whether you prepare your own returns or have a paid professional, make an appointment before the end of your taxable year to have your situation reviewed. They can do some planning and give you good advice. For probably $200-$250 (possibly tax deductible, YMMV) you should have a good idea if you will be able to maximize the amount of your credit(s).
I have been in this business for too many years. Nearly every year at least one of my clients makes a bonehead play and costs themselves from several hundred to thousands of dollars of income tax because they never bothered to call me before they made their decision. It just comes in the mail each March, and by then, it does no good to close the barn door, as that horse is long gone.
25% reduction in weight, with improved Cd == battery smaller by more than 25% == roughly 25% lower battery costs as well as 25% lower metal costs. Where do you think the major costs of the car *are*? Most people figure the battery and the aluminum body are the expensive parts.
Obviously one big aspect is the fixed costs: the stamping machine costs the same amount regardless of how often you use it. So the economies of scale from procuding 500,000 / year are very important. But in terms of variable costs, it seems to me the biggest wins are from making making the car smaller and lighter-weight while improving the Cd, allowing for fewer batteries to be used to achieve the same range.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
Hey everyone!!
There are literally half a dozen threads regarding the Tax Credit and how it works.
Google is also your friend when trying to track down a subject you're not completely familiar with.
There are literally half a dozen threads regarding the Tax Credit and how it works.
Google is also your friend when trying to track down a subject you're not completely familiar with.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Maybe a little late to this thread, but here goes anyway...
$66K for a Model S60 still includes a 75 KWH battery that flat out costs Tesla more money. That won't be the case with the Model 3
I would also venture to guess that the profit margin on a base model $35,000 Model 3 with no options will be VERY small if any at all. However, based on prices charged for most options on the Model S, Tesla charges WAY over cost for option items. They're likely assuming that few people will buy a Model 3 without a single option. Selecting just one option puts the company into the plus. $2,000 for Supercharging is pure profit since all they have to do is flip a switch and it's ready to go. Sound studio used be $900, then instantly jumped to $2,500 on the Model S, pure profit. Stock 19 inch wheels ad no cost however the Model S optional wheels are $2,500, yet still 19". Is the alloy on those wheels more expensive than the alloy on the stock wheels? Pure profit. $4,500 for 21" wheels. 95% profit.
Tesla will make a fortune on these cars. Keep in mind they don't have to pay salesman commissions or give up portions of their profits to dealers in general.
The smaller battery, versus the 75 kwh battery in the Model S will likely be around $3,000 less, $6,000 by the time they move battery production into the gigafactory.
$2,000 for supercharging.
Cheaper steel materials plus will be lacking many of the fancy gadgets found in the Model S (Retracting door handles, auto lift trunk, center gauge panel, smaller center screen, minimized interior materials and complexity, probably won't include navigation). Estimating this will save around $5,000 to $8,000.
Likely won't have Brembo brakes which are very expensive, save $2,000 just in brakes alone.
Smaller wheels will save a few bucks.
Model S likely has at least a 10% profit margin built-in to the price for another $6,600.
Many other indirect costs. Naturally, the more you produce of something, the cheaper each unit is. Producing 500,000 cars a year will be much cheaper on a per car basis than producing only 50,000 cars.
$66K for a Model S60 still includes a 75 KWH battery that flat out costs Tesla more money. That won't be the case with the Model 3
I would also venture to guess that the profit margin on a base model $35,000 Model 3 with no options will be VERY small if any at all. However, based on prices charged for most options on the Model S, Tesla charges WAY over cost for option items. They're likely assuming that few people will buy a Model 3 without a single option. Selecting just one option puts the company into the plus. $2,000 for Supercharging is pure profit since all they have to do is flip a switch and it's ready to go. Sound studio used be $900, then instantly jumped to $2,500 on the Model S, pure profit. Stock 19 inch wheels ad no cost however the Model S optional wheels are $2,500, yet still 19". Is the alloy on those wheels more expensive than the alloy on the stock wheels? Pure profit. $4,500 for 21" wheels. 95% profit.
Tesla will make a fortune on these cars. Keep in mind they don't have to pay salesman commissions or give up portions of their profits to dealers in general.
The smaller battery, versus the 75 kwh battery in the Model S will likely be around $3,000 less, $6,000 by the time they move battery production into the gigafactory.
$2,000 for supercharging.
Cheaper steel materials plus will be lacking many of the fancy gadgets found in the Model S (Retracting door handles, auto lift trunk, center gauge panel, smaller center screen, minimized interior materials and complexity, probably won't include navigation). Estimating this will save around $5,000 to $8,000.
Likely won't have Brembo brakes which are very expensive, save $2,000 just in brakes alone.
Smaller wheels will save a few bucks.
Model S likely has at least a 10% profit margin built-in to the price for another $6,600.
Many other indirect costs. Naturally, the more you produce of something, the cheaper each unit is. Producing 500,000 cars a year will be much cheaper on a per car basis than producing only 50,000 cars.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
Tesla absolutely can put a bigger software locked pack in the Model 3.
If they decide to mark it up high enough, and say two-out of-three Model 3 customers spring for the upgrade, they'll have made back that money, AND sped up production by simplifying the various permutations of Model 3's that come off the line.
The "loss" of putting the big battery in every car is more than made up for by the markup they're going to ding us with.
If they decide to mark it up high enough, and say two-out of-three Model 3 customers spring for the upgrade, they'll have made back that money, AND sped up production by simplifying the various permutations of Model 3's that come off the line.
The "loss" of putting the big battery in every car is more than made up for by the markup they're going to ding us with.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
We don't know that... It might actually have decreased in cost to manufacture while still selling the 75kWh at increased profits. It'll cost Tesla that percentage of total lost profit while encouraging potential buyers that would have otherwise not purchased the car. Therefore, the move has the potential to make Tesla more money in the long run. Including extra profit on those who opt to upgrade and even more profit for those who upgrade after purchase.
Keep in mind the upgrade costs over three times the price per kWh to manufacture.
No, the Model S has 25% gross margin as of Dec 2015 with a push toward 30% margins in the next few months,
Similar threads
