How would you like to see the Auto Pilot improved?

[chillaban]

@colin It can, it just seems the sensors aren't on all the time. They do go 16' out with respect to range (per TM), so I don't understand why the BSM is non-existent/so disappointing.

It appears sensors change sensitivity at varying speeds, which makes them super inconsistent. This is beginning to bug me.

The problem is that ultrasonic park assist sensors get less and less effective as your speed increases, especially when it comes to being able to detect objects that are moving relative to you. Most other cars use doppler radar in the 24GHz range to implement blind spot monitoring, which directs a beam of radar on each of side of your rear bumper, good for hundreds of feet (and they can see a rapidly overtaking car from 10+ car distances away and warn you if you're going to cut off a fast approaching car in the adjacent lane).

The downside of the radar based technology is that it requires you to be moving at a minimum speed. In my 2014 A6 it was 18mph+. In the 2015-2016 Audis and most Mercedes vehicles that was reduced to around 12-15mph. But still, it means when you are at a standstill in your lane and want to move into the adjacent lane, you are unprotected in a radar-based BSM vehicle, but that's actually one scenario that Tesla handles well with its parking sensor based "BSM".


I really wish the car would use a hybrid of these approaches. They each have their pros and cons, so I wouldn't say that Mercedes/Audi/friends got BSM done "right"....

 

[xkwizit]

Precisely. That's why I expected Tesla to lead the way in notifying me of someone coming up on me in an adjacent lane. But, you want me to rely on the mirrors and turning my head, and in another breath tell me that' it's not a complete solution. The X has a tiny view out the rear, even with a 6 seat configuration. The pillars are big and obstruct view, and the one thing I mistakenly assumed was that in a car capable of AP version 1, they'd have blind side notification well in hand. Still love my car, and I still tell my friends that it's the safest car on the road, but we made a decision as a family to only use AP in limited circumstances and not use lane change at all. Blame the victim if that's your preference.

I dislike the whole concept of mirrors and would be one of the first to go autonomous as soon as it becomes available. As for lane change as it is today, it's tinier than a baby step in the path to autonomous driving. I would rather have Tesla focus on autonomous driving than add another dumb feature to the mirror.

As for the rear view mirror on X, I had the same thoughts as you when I first took delivery but the more I use it, I realize it actually provides the entire view of the rear and covers the entire visible area of the glass spoiler upwards.

 

[elguapo]

Understand better now. Didn't realize ultrasound had speed limitations. No idea why TM couldn't put a rear radar(s) in. Hyundai has it. It's amazing that they push so hard for semi autonomous driving, but miss easy things like BSM. Guess we will save that for next gen AP...

I go back to my original post here. I think they've done basically all they can with the AP v1 hardware.

 

[Saghost]

I go back to my original post here. I think they've done basically all they can with the AP v1 hardware.

There's still some room left - most of which is mentioned upthread. They can certainly teach to current package to read traffic lights and stop for red ones, and to stop for stop signs. There's all of the path optimization for when you're on different types of roads and being passed by or passing cars in different places. There's object avoidance/warning, to the extent that the car's systems are up to it - pedestrians, deer, potholes, road debris.

 

[elguapo]

There's still some room left - most of which is mentioned upthread. They can certainly teach to current package to read traffic lights and stop for red ones, and to stop for stop signs. There's all of the path optimization for when you're on different types of roads and being passed by or passing cars in different places. There's object avoidance/warning, to the extent that the car's systems are up to it - pedestrians, deer, potholes, road debris.

Good points. The existing Mobileye 560 or whatever it is can see pedestrians and deer - not sure why the TM one can't. I think if it uses the front camera or radar, then the SW upgrades are more likely. If it has to do with the US sensors, I am not so sure. TM always has surprises though!

Here's what makes me frustrated. I was sitting behind a Mercedes at a light today. I could see both of its BSMs were on because I was in an odd spot behind the car. The person behind me, big Land Cruiser, didn't even set off any of my ultrasonic sensors. I was literally not moving, so no issue with the sensors not working above some speed. I think there's no rhyme or reason as to when the TM sensors work.

AP example. I am going 60 on the highway. Car passes me on my left in a lane. Probably 6' from me. I watch it come up from behind me, pull left, pass me and come back in front of me. The AP sensors didn't show the car at all - when it was behind me, moving around me in my blind spot or once it cut me off. No indications. Doesn't give me great faith in using auto pilot. This happens consistently, then, all of the sudden, the sensors begin to be a bit more sensitive. AP seems to work fine, but I am a bit troubled.

Nonetheless, I like my X a lot more than my S and think it's a great car. I hope a lot of the ASAP bugs can be fixed with SW, I am just not getting my hopes up.

 

[xkwizit]

Good points. The existing Mobileye 560 or whatever it is can see pedestrians and deer - not sure why the TM one can't. I think if it uses the front camera or radar, then the SW upgrades are more likely. If it has to do with the US sensors, I am not so sure. TM always has surprises though!

Here's what makes me frustrated. I was sitting behind a Mercedes at a light today. I could see both of its BSMs were on because I was in an odd spot behind the car. The person behind me, big Land Cruiser, didn't even set off any of my ultrasonic sensors. I was literally not moving, so no issue with the sensors not working above some speed. I think there's no rhyme or reason as to when the TM sensors work.

AP example. I am going 60 on the highway. Car passes me on my left in a lane. Probably 6' from me. I watch it come up from behind me, pull left, pass me and come back in front of me. The AP sensors didn't show the car at all - when it was behind me, moving around me in my blind spot or once it cut me off. No indications. Doesn't give me great faith in using auto pilot. This happens consistently, then, all of the sudden, the sensors begin to be a bit more sensitive. AP seems to work fine, but I am a bit troubled.

Nonetheless, I like my X a lot more than my S and think it's a great car. I hope a lot of the ASAP bugs can be fixed with SW, I am just not getting my hopes up.

@elguapo If a vehicle passed next to you as close as you mention and you didn't see the balloons of the ultrasonic sensors on your dash, you should get your vehicle checked. It's possible there's a fault in the sensors or they are deactivated.

 

[aesculus]

I don't know if they are defective or not. Mine don't show on the display until cars are well into my visibility area. It's hard to say if it's a sensor problem or just the logic for what get's displayed.

 

[cclaygo]

I'm confused on all the comments on blind spot awareness. Mine shows the sensors seeing cars on all sides of my car. What else do you want? I'm not sure what any of this had to do with AP except auto lane change which we currently have to initiate anyway. Turn your head a couple inches for safety. Let's get back to reality and the topic of what the AP can actually do now and how it can be slightly improved. Like better anticipation and not going so close to curbs, lines and drifting cars. Complain about blind spot when the car actually initiates lane change on its own.

 

[xkwizit]

I'm confused on all the comments on blind spot awareness. Mine shows the sensors seeing cars on all sides of my car. What else do you want? I'm not sure what any of this had to do with AP except auto lane change which we currently have to initiate anyway. Turn your head a couple inches for safety. Let's get back to reality and the topic of what the AP can actually do now and how it can be slightly improved. Like better anticipation and not going so close to curbs, lines and drifting cars. Complain about blind spot when the car actually initiates lane change on its own.

Bingo!

 

[elguapo]

Bingo!

But BSM IS an AP issue. I have tried to auto change lanes twice when there was someone in my blind spot and the X just went on over and would have collided with the car had I not intervened. That's why I bring it up. The BSM needs improvement for AP to work better.

The issue may be there's always a delay between when the graphic shows up on my screen and when the actual object passes me - like 1-2 seconds.

I will take my car in to SC and see what they say. It could just be my sensors. I will report back.

 

[tonyx]

My list:
1. Slow down sooner. This is inconsistent, like I have nice easy stops when approaching stopped vehicles far in front, but if a car moves out of my way, the X tries to speed up to hit my TACC speed, not seeming to notice the vehicles fully stopped only a short distance away. It's like the tolerance from 'recently cleared obstacle' to 'open road' needs adjustment. Don't accelerate so quickly unless it's clear a good distance ahead.

2. "Self-learning" needs improvement. I'm happy the X doesn't take every freeway exit, but I've been driving the same road at least twice daily for over a month, and it still cuts across the lane on several turns despite my correcting it every time. Correction comes sometimes in the form of a gentle nudge back to the lane without disengaging Autosteer, sometimes turning more abruptly to bring the X back into the lane. It's not learning or (more likely) the learning process is not yet impacting this part of my drive.

3. Add "blind spot assist." I haven't had a dangerous issue with changing lanes, the vehicle either has tons of room and does it or just won't change if a car is anywhere near it. When changing lanes on my own, I've just resigned myself to old school turning my head and confirming multiple times that the space is clear. Yes, this is annoying given the other safety features in the X.

 

[xkwizit]

But BSM IS an AP issue. I have tried to auto change lanes twice when there was someone in my blind spot and the X just went on over and would have collided with the car had I not intervened. That's why I bring it up. The BSM needs improvement for AP to work better.

The issue may be there's always a delay between when the graphic shows up on my screen and when the actual object passes me - like 1-2 seconds.

I will take my car in to SC and see what they say. It could just be my sensors. I will report back.

I agree that the lane change needs improvement. But what you are expecting from AP with regards to the lane change is not possible with the current hardware. It's a hardware limitation.

 

[elguapo]

I agree that the lane change needs improvement. But what you are expecting from AP with regards to the lane change is not possible with the current hardware. It's a hardware limitation.

Got it. That's what's frustrating. The hardware exists, and has existed for many years, to get this right, and they just missed it.

That said, it's great in many other places.

 

[GottaGetRidOfICE]

Got it. That's what's frustrating. The hardware exists, and has existed for many years, to get this right, and they just missed it.

That said, it's great in many other places.

I can't help but think that this was a case of TM's reach exceeding its grasp. They probably figured they'd have cameras rather than side mirrors, and when that plan went pear shaped, decided that F it, we'll fix it in the next generation.

When I read the last sentence I quoted, my tired eyes read "that's sad, it's great in many other places." That's how I feel.

 

[xkwizit]

I can't help but think that this was a case of TM's reach exceeding its grasp. They probably figured they'd have cameras rather than side mirrors, and when that plan went pear shaped, decided that F it, we'll fix it in the next generation.

When I read the last sentence I quoted, my tired eyes read "that's sad, it's great in many other places." That's how I feel.

I also believe in same line of thinking. Elon pushed hard to get rid of side mirrors and use cameras but when the Feds didn't budge, they had to put the mirrors to meet the law. So yes, quite likely they were hoping that mirrors will go away sometime soon. Even other auto manufacturers have been supporting the concept of doing away with mirrors as they do add to the drag quite a bit.

 

[Blastphemy]

I'm confused on all the comments on blind spot awareness. Mine shows the sensors seeing cars on all sides of my car. What else do you want?

The instrument panel screen does not show a car graphic to your left or right until it's already in your view. The display can shows curved sensor lines that indicate by color how close an object is beside you, but does not indicate if there's a car in your blindspot. The only way to reliably see a car in your blindspot (which is significant on the left side of the X) is to use the reverse camera while driving. Also, it's almost impossible to see a car two lanes over in your blindspot unless you have the little aftermarket convex mirrors attached to your side mirrors, so lane changes can sometimes feel like a Hail Mary in busy traffic.

 

[ronsbell]

Related, although a bit off topic, but Blind Spot Detection is a glaring defect. My kids' Volvo can do it well, my wife's Range Rover can do it well, but I'm ashamed that my Tesla is third best in my household. They should disable lane change until they fix this. I brag on the car all the time, but this is embarrassing. I've yet to take anyone with a high-end car for a demo who doesn't remark on this weakness.

It is perhaps particularly important and potentially valuable to have blind spot detection given the size of the center pillar which separates the front side and rear side windows in the Model S.

 

[ronsbell]

View attachment 175502

Here are few ideas for improvement:

1) Slow down around speed bumps, railway tracks, and intersections. Clearly the vehicle has GPS capability to drop speed like it does for the garage opening or the suspension drop. Based on GPS it would be easy to tell the system to drop speed by 25% when going through any of these areas.

2) Stop at all red lights and stop signs. Sounds crazy but it can read the speed limit sign so it doesn't seem too hard to engage stop. If it doesn't engage the user would need to apply the break and would have to be aware.

3) Slow down sooner when approaching vehicles - Improves energy efficiency and quite frankly doesn't scare the passengers as much.

4) I had an issue when driving on a curved road where the Auto did not see the car in front until we were a lot closer. I engaged manual stop and at the same time the car also beeped and tried to stop. Curves might be tricky but needs to be improved.

Excellent list. One other thing that might help is when a trip is laid in and directions are being navigated, it would help if AP factored the route in when it loses a lane marking and has to decide whether to go straight or bear toward an exit.

 

[xkwizit]

The instrument panel screen does not show a car graphic to your left or right until it's already in your view. The display can shows curved sensor lines that indicate by color how close an object is beside you, but does not indicate if there's a car in your blindspot. The only way to reliably see a car in your blindspot (which is significant on the left side of the X) is to use the reverse camera while driving. Also, it's almost impossible to see a car two lanes over in your blindspot unless you have the little aftermarket convex mirrors attached to your side mirrors, so lane changes can sometimes feel like a Hail Mary in busy traffic.

If you have your side mirrors set correctly that should not occur. As per a safe driving course I took recently, the correct way to set the left mirror is to have your head touch the left window and adjust the mirror so you don't see the side of your car. Then stretch your neck to the right as much as you did for the left and repeat the mirror setting for the right side.

PS: pls don't kill me on this..quoting straight out of that safe driver instructions. But after being a driver for 30+ years I learnt something new and I actually was able to reduce the blind spot.

 

[Blastphemy]

That's what I learned in Driver's Ed too. Problem is, if you set your mirrors that way, you can't see all the motorcycles splitting lanes creeping up behind you, and don't see straight back in order to anticipate potential trouble from behind/to the side (I don't know if I'm describing that clearly - sorry). We put the convex blind spot mirrors on our side mirrors, so now we can see straight back and also into the blind spot zone. So problem solved... and to your point: without electronic warnings. But I still like having the redundant warning of a steering wheel vibration (BMW) or beep alert (Infiniti) or seat vibrate (Cadillac) when there's a car in my blindspot that I'm about to hit.