Garlan Garner
Banned
Solar City has nothing to do with selling power.
They are a solar company that supplies and installs solar panels.
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They are a solar company that supplies and installs solar panels.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
So have you ever tried to push paperwork through a state's utility board?
If they're not deep now, they will be if they decide to start reselling electricity.
Actually their business model is leasing panels and becoming a PPA provider. So they are more of a power provider. I priced them out once and buying panels from them is very expensive and not really want they want you to do.
Garlan Garner
Banned
No, I haven't tried that...however I've had to push paperwork through the NSA to get a solar farm built. It was a mess.
The only reason I make my statement about SC's not being that deep of a thing is because its super easy to setup your own power distribution stations at your house and advertise it. All you have to do is install Nema plugs and let people know that you have one....and then they come over and charge up their cars and then they pay you or xyz for it.
There are quite a few google.maps type apps that will direct you to "peoples houses" and such to take advantage of this if you choose.
Garlan Garner
Banned
They are indeed NOT a power provider. Come on people. Leasing panels / Installing Panels.....who cares. They aren't selling power by the KWH.
You guys know what I mean....you are just playing games of semantics. I've been in the Solar Business for a long long time. I know what I'm talking about concerning this topic.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
That I have no doubt about.
It may or may not be on the "up and up" though, depending on where you live.
in Massachusetts, selling power without being subject to state regulation is a huge no-no, and you should be prepared to lawyer up if you're caught doing it.
How are the other charging companies doing it? Are they all registered as resellers?
I know they are in a lot of states that probably have varying laws. If it really is as complex as everyone says, it might be something, and I really hate to say this, that the government should look into to make it easier for chargers to be built in all states since it will eventually become a neccesary piece of the infrastructure.
Garlan Garner
Banned
That may be true. Here are a few companies that post EV charging stations ( Home, etc).
PlugShare
EVSE | Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging Stations - ChargePoint
Open Charge Map - The global public registry of electric vehicle charging locations
CarStations | Charging Stations App & Map for Electric Cars and Plugin Hybrids
ChargePoint
There are tons of them. Almost all Highway overpass gas stations have them. They are independently owned charge stations. Selling Electricity.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
here in MA, there are a bunch of Level 2 chargers at a regional restaurant chain, "the 99". Those chargers are part of the chargepoint network, but they're part of a partnership with National Grid, a local utility.
Chargepoint themselves are (not) a registered reseller. ***EDIT: they are not an authorized reseller....they handle the POS transaction, but technically National Grid, or EverSource are the resellers (depending on location of the charging station)
They do it to prevent price gouging, which is good for the consumer, but can be a PITA if you're attempting to be a reseller.
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Garlan Garner
Banned
I don't have any facts on re-selling, but to become a member of PlugShare - I didn't have to register to become anything. I just bought the unit. Installed it on my house. and that's it.
Garlan Garner
Banned
BMW, NISSAN and other dealerships have them. I wonder if they have become re-sellers or if they are giving electricity away for free.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
In that scenario, and in states that require regulation, PlugShare is likely the reseller, and you become an "authorized agent" of PlugShare, for regulatory purposes.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Maybe..... I know that in the past 6 months....I've not had anyone use it. I don't use it.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
Here's the list of "Authorized Sellers" in MA (no Tesla or Solar City listed):
ByLicense
And the "resources" page for people looking to become authorized:
Helpful Resources for Competitive Suppliers, Brokers
FULL DISCLOSURE:
I used to work for National Grid, and the Service Level Agreements for availability, of not only power distribution, but safety hotlines, IT systems, reporting, etc etc etc were very onerous. Somewhere above 98%, and penalties charged for long restoral times.
I'm not sure if it would be that way for EV charging, if so, it may make Tesla think about partnering with someone to be a reseller, which would be unfortunate, because the kWH rate would likely be a little higher to cover the cost of the partnership.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Yes.... and that's my point. Tesla isn't a re-seller because it would require them to charge by local rates.Here's the list of "Authorized Sellers" in MA (no Tesla or Solar City listed):
ByLicense
And the "resources" page for people looking to become authorized:
Helpful Resources for Competitive Suppliers, Brokers
FULL DISCLOSURE:
I used to work for National Grid, and the Service Level Agreements for availability, of not only power distribution, but safety hotlines, IT systems, reporting, etc etc etc were very onerous. Somewhere above 98%, and penalties charged for long restoral times.
I'm not sure if it would be that way for EV charging, if so, it may make Tesla think about partnering with someone to be a reseller, which would be unfortunate, because the kWH rate would likely be a little higher to cover the cost of the partnership.
They currently don't have to deal with rates.
I think what Tesla is doing is superb because if they either build $2500 in per car or offer a lifetime $2500 option at purchase.....very few people will EVER use up $2500 worth of electricity - Even in Hawaii, Connecticut or Mass.
I would suggest that Tesla continue with what they are doing because if they start charging on a per use basis.....they would lose all of that ( I'm not using SC at all even though I paid for it ) profit.
Garlan Garner
Banned
The people in Hawaii and Connecticut would love that because $.20kwh is cheaper than what they pay now. LOL
Actually, selling power by the kWh is exactly what SolarCity does with PPA.
Garlan Garner
Banned
No they are not. There is no one here that can provide a receipt from Solar City where they purchased KWH of electricity.
I know how this works....an interconnection agreement is established with the local power company between the homeowner and the power company. I currently have one that I established myself ( without Solar City or anyone else) . Its a 20 year agreement of what I'm going to pay per kwh to my local company. Solar City may help establish that with the local power company and Solar City may pay the bill to the local provider on behalf of the customer.....but they are NOT selling power.
Solar City doesn't even generate power. They lease panels out.
So when I sign an agreement with Solar City to buy power from them for $.12/kWh for 20 years, that's not selling me power? How do you define PPA agreements then?
I have gotten several PPA quotes from several vendors and they always have it set up as a price per kWh that I am buying from them.
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