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HPC installation on NEMA 14-50 outlet?

Discussion in 'Roadster' started by skadax, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. skadax

    skadax Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Just took delivery of my roadster and looking forward to having it be my daily driver. The UMCs are not available at the moment and may be a couple months I'm told. I already had a 14-50 outlet installed by my electrician on a 50 amp breaker. I can get an HPC sooner than waiting on the UMC and my question is can the HPC be wired to a 14-50 plug which I then can simply plug-in to the existing 14-50 socket? I understand that I would have to keep the charging limited to 40 amps. Aside from this I see no reason why I couldn't do this but figured I'd consult the wisdom that is out there. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks.
     
  2. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,850
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Yes, you could do this. It is best to reprogram the HPC to 40A, which can apparently be done. However if you're careful you can charge this way without doing that, by adjusting charging current on the touchscreen. It's not quite as safe, though.
     
  3. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,150
    Location:
    NE Tennessee
    I have done this and run the HPC this way for nearly 2 with no issues. My NEMA 14-50 was wired with a 70 amp breaker and 6 gauge wire. So i limited the current in my HPC to 64 amps. I realize i am over the plug design but the plug is rarely removed and never under load. My plug has never gotten warm with my IR thermometer. I realize i need to replace the 70 amp breaker if i sell the house. While my set up is not to code it does remain cool and I feel safe in my situation.
     
  4. skadax

    skadax Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Thanks for your help guys. I'll go ahead and the get the HPC and set it up this way then. How do you guys connect the 14-50 to the HPC? I plan to get a 14-50 extension cord rated for 50 amps and cut off the cable and hard wire it to the HPC. However the NEMA 14-50 has 4 wires and the HPC looks like it takes 3 wires (Line, Neutral, and Earth)?
     
  5. pgwoosley

    pgwoosley Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    299
    Double check, but I believe is is line-neutral-line. The mobile connector, however does use ground.
     
  6. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,850
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    NEMA 14-50 is line-neutral-line plus a safety ground. The two lines are 110V in opposite phase ("polarity").

    Charging stations including the HPC and UMC do not use the neutral. It is not connected.
     
  7. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,019
    The HPC should be using line / line / ground, as it does not use neutral. It does require an equipment grounding conductor (a/k/a "ground" or "earth"). If applying a 14-50 plug to the HPC's input, ignore the center flat blade. Connect earth to the round pin / green wire, and the two hot/line conductors to the outer straight blades of the 14-50 (likely black/red in the cord you're purchasing).
     
  8. Adrian Cockcroft

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2013
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Los Gatos, California, United States
    We've spent the last few weeks trying to get a NEMA 14-50 to work at all. At this point I'm thinking I'd like to buy an HPC, are they still available? I can get it wired into a 70A breaker.

    Here's the tale of woe.

    We already have a Nissan Leaf, and a 30A J1772 in the garage, which works perfectly on the Leaf and on the Tesla, but we want to charge both at the same time, so my plan was to get a NEMA 14-50 installed and use that for the Roadster. After install, it has worked once or twice for a short time, but usually gives a red ring and #981 error, which I think means low voltage, and happens early in the charge sequence.

    I took the NEMA 14-50 charger to Tesla and they verified that when plugged into their outlet it charged my car every time with no problems.

    I got the electrician who installed the NEMA outlet to verify the installation, and we checked, changed and double-checked everything. The outlet is about three feet from the breaker panel. The breaker is next to the breaker feeding the J1772. We changed the breaker, re-connected the wires at the breaker, swapped polarity, reconnected the wires at the plug, replaced the ground wire. Watched the voltages on the plug during startup (they were stable and correct) and can't think what else to try.

    I got the logs and uploaded them to Tesla, here's an example of failing to work for the 40A NEMA followed by working correctly on the 30A J1772 plug.

    Any ideas?
    Adrian

    08/14/2013 10:06:15 | 1376499975 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = 0.0 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 2.8V 0.11A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:15 | 1376499975 | C30M | range soc = 80%, 40A available
    08/14/2013 10:06:16 | 1376499976 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 2.4V 0.07A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 3 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:17 | 1376499977 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 2.2V 0.13A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:18 | 1376499978 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 2.3V 0.11A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:19 | 1376499979 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 2.0V 0.07A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:20 | 1376499980 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 2.0V 0.10A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:21 | 1376499981 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = 0.0 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 2.0V 0.11A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:22 | 1376499982 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.9V 0.11A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 2 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:23 | 1376499983 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.8V 0.10A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 93 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:24 | 1376499984 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.5V 0.09A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:25 | 1376499985 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.4 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.6V 0.10A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:26 | 1376499986 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.6V 0.16A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:27 | 1376499987 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.3V 0.14A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:28 | 1376499988 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.4V 0.17A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:29 | 1376499989 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.2V 0.14A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:30 | 1376499990 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.5V 0.14A, 4.009V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:31 | 1376499991 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 1.4V 0.18A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:32 | 1376499992 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.1V 0.16A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:33 | 1376499993 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 0.9V 0.15A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:34 | 1376499994 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.2V 0.14A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:35 | 1376499995 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.4 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.1V 0.11A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:36 | 1376499996 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 0.9V 0.11A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:37 | 1376499997 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 1.0V 0.07A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:06:38 | 1376499998 | IDLE | range soc = 80% ESS 32.59C - 33.96C, 2.126V min, 4.008V max, 76 brick min V, 128 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:07:46 | 1376500066 | IDLE | range soc = 80% ESS 32.59C - 33.95C, 6.313V min, 2.636V max, 40 brick min V, 128 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:38 | 1376500118 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.2 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 2.6V 0.00A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:38 | 1376500118 | C30M | range soc = 80%, 30A available
    08/14/2013 10:08:39 | 1376500119 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 2.4V 0.02A, 4.009V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:40 | 1376500120 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 244.4V 0.00A, 4.009V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:41 | 1376500121 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 244.6V 0.01A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:42 | 1376500122 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 244.1V 0.02A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:43 | 1376500123 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 244.2V 0.01A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:44 | 1376500124 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 21 charging at 244.6V 0.00A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:45 | 1376500125 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 244.2V 0.00A, 4.009V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:46 | 1376500126 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 244.6V 0.02A, 4.009V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:47 | 1376500127 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 21 charging at 244.3V 0.01A, 4.009V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:48 | 1376500128 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 21 charging at 244.4V 0.01A, 4.009V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:49 | 1376500129 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 21 charging at 244.0V 0.02A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:50 | 1376500130 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 244.4V 0.00A, 4.009V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:51 | 1376500131 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 245.1V 0.04A, 4.009V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:52 | 1376500132 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 244.7V 0.02A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:53 | 1376500133 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 21 charging at 244.7V 0.00A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 96 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:54 | 1376500134 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 244.5V 0.01A, 4.009V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:55 | 1376500135 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 243.9V 0.01A, 4.009V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:56 | 1376500136 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 243.1V 0.02A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:57 | 1376500137 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 243.3V 0.00A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:58 | 1376500138 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 243.4V 0.01A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:08:59 | 1376500139 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.7 Coolant 34C ESS 32.57C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 243.5V 0.02A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 6 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:00 | 1376500140 | C1MB | volts = 399.9 amps = -0.2 Coolant 34C ESS 32.54C - 33.96C cooling = 21 charging at 243.5V 0.00A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:01 | 1376500141 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = -0.2 Coolant 34C ESS 32.54C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 243.4V 0.31A, 4.009V min, 4.034V max, 73 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:01 | 1376500141 | C1MB | volts = 398.9 amps = -1.0 Coolant 34C ESS 32.56C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 243.4V 0.32A, 4.004V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:02 | 1376500142 | C1MB | volts = 398.9 amps = -1.5 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 243.5V 0.31A, 4.005V min, 4.029V max, 38 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:04 | 1376500144 | C1MB | volts = 398.9 amps = -0.9 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 243.7V 0.29A, 4.005V min, 4.034V max, 38 brick min V, 96 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:05 | 1376500145 | C1MB | volts = 398.9 amps = -2.0 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 244.1V 3.21A, 4.005V min, 4.034V max, 38 brick min V, 8 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:06 | 1376500146 | C1MB | volts = 398.9 amps = -2.0 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.96C cooling = 20 charging at 244.6V 3.73A, 4.005V min, 4.029V max, 38 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:07 | 1376500147 | C1MB | volts = 399.4 amps = 2.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 243.7V 5.88A, 4.009V min, 4.029V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:08 | 1376500148 | C1MB | volts = 400.4 amps = 8.6 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 21 charging at 240.3V 17.32A, 4.009V min, 4.044V max, 73 brick min V, 1 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:09 | 1376500149 | C1MB | volts = 400.9 amps = 14.1 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 237.5V 27.29A, 4.010V min, 4.058V max, 38 brick min V, 2 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:10 | 1376500150 | C1MB | volts = 400.9 amps = 14.7 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 236.9V 29.98A, 4.014V min, 4.063V max, 73 brick min V, 20 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:11 | 1376500151 | C1MB | volts = 401.9 amps = 14.8 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 237.2V 29.97A, 4.014V min, 4.063V max, 73 brick min V, 2 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:12 | 1376500152 | C1MB | volts = 401.9 amps = 15.3 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 20 charging at 237.4V 29.98A, 4.014V min, 4.063V max, 73 brick min V, 88 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:09:13 | 1376500153 | C1MB | volts = 401.9 amps = 15.0 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 21 charging at 237.8V 30.01A, 4.014V min, 4.063V max, 73 brick min V, 88 brick max V
    08/14/2013 10:10:13 | 1376500213 | C1MB | volts = 400.4 amps = 11.9 Coolant 34C ESS 32.59C - 33.95C cooling = 34 charging at 239.7V 30.09A, 4.019V min, 4.068V max, 73 brick min V, 9 brick max V
     
  9. shrink

    shrink Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    555
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Can he cut off the end of the UMC 14-50 adapter:

    Shop Tesla Gear Universal Adapters - Available in North America Only

    hardwire that into the HPC and then just plug it into the 14-50 outlet?

    Just a thought. I imaging a regular old dryer plug would be a lot cheaper.
     
  10. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,019
    A 14-50 replacement range plug is about $15, and 6/3 SOOW cord is about $3/ft or so. Much less expensive. :)
     

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