HPCs at Supercharging sites?

[mitch672]

Didn't notice until after I voted that its only or Roadster/40KW MS owners.. With that said I voted for HPC 2.0 and Tesla should convert the Roadsters to HPC 2.0 as well. I think the issue no one has mentioned here yet, is, the transformers they are installing for the SuperCharger sites are 277V/480V, 3 phase. Not exactly conducive to running a standard 208V-240V split phase 70A EVSE... They would have to buy/supply secondary transformers to get the voltage correct to run the HPCs, that's why it's probably just not going to happen. Sorry to rain on your poll Mitch

EDIT: it now appears the actual SuperChargers run on 120/208V 3 phase, ignore 277/480 speculation.

 

[vfx]

The easier solution would be to have two cables on each HPC (1.0 for the Roadster and 2.0 for the Model S). This would make it a lot easier than having to carry multiple adapters or changing out glued on Roadster sockets.

It's actually easier to swap out the Roadster's socket. No adapter would be necessary at any HPC at the Superchargers or any of (30,000 and growing) Model S owner's homes. Not too many Roadster owner homes in comparison (and many have Model S's too!)

If you wanted to plug in to a J1772 or 14-50 then Tesla's little adapters are a much more trunk efficient solution.

Another reason for getting rid of the Tesla 1.0 standard is the are very very expensive. With Tesla now making 10's of thousands of the new 2.0 plugs and sockets they will hit economics of scale never before possible with the basically handmade Roadster connectors.

 

[bonnie]

I strongly agree that both Roadsters and Model S 40kwh should be able to charge at the site. I think there is some confusion and Tesla believes we're asking for supercharge options for the vehicles. Nooooo ... just a 70amp (or 80 for the S owners) Tesla HPC connector over on the side.

If they want to use the new socket, I'll gladly pay for an adaptor to use it. That's not the issue. The issue is I kind of feel like I'm being told I can't use the front door and have to go hang out down the street with the riffraff (using someone else's description) or find one of the Tesla HPCs that Roadster owners helped to fund and install.

 

[hjr]

We all should lobby Tesla to include Roadster connectors at the Supercharger sites. It will cost them almost nothing to do so as the power will already be at the sites. That would show some loyalty from them to us pioneers who helped prove their products viablility.

 

[hjr]

It would not help other vehicles if TM put Roadster connectors at HPC's located at the SC sites.... I really doubt non-Roadster owners would want to spend $ to buy reverse CANs...

 

[smorgasbord]

At the Oct Model S Factory event, I talked with the Tesla guy doing the work. Here's the video: Tesla on Charging Standards on Vimeo[video=vimeo;36221090]https://vimeo.com/36221090[/video]

He said that retrofitting Roadster with Model S connector is difficult because of the locking mechanism. So, I would think we'd be looking at yet another adapter cable. Ugh.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Personally I don't mind the Superchargers are Model S only. I don't use the Roadster for long road trips, and if I did there are enough J1772 options in place (or coming soon) to cover me.

What I DO want is the option to upgrade the Roadster to a Supercharger battery pack!

I'm sure a big part of what makes the Model S able to SuperCharge is the active liquid cooling system. I would think it would be nearly impossible to find room for the radiators, fans and other equipment required inside of the Roadster form factor. Of course, I don't own a Roadster and know nothing about it, but from the exterior it just looks like it would be a stretch to fit that stuff.

 

[vfx]

What a great conversation. Would be amazing if Tesla did that kind of customer interaction EVent on a regular basis. I note the Model S does have programmable ending charge time -someone of the first things I wanted on the Roadster.

As to the connector swap would putting in a Tesla 2.0 plug in a Roadster work without the lock? I know you asked, it seemed the mechanical answer was incomplete.

Sometimes people outside come up with solutions so I hope we get a 2.0 plug and socket to play with soon.

 

[doug]

He said that retrofitting Roadster with Model S connector is difficult because of the locking mechanism. So, I would think we'd be looking at yet another adapter cable. Ugh.

I don't see how a locking mechanism is that large of a stumbling block. It doesn't have to be automated. A mechanical spring-loaded tab would be good enough.

 

[vfx]

We all should lobby Tesla to include Roadster connectors at the Supercharger sites. It will cost them almost nothing to do so as the power will already be at the sites. That would show some loyalty from them to us pioneers who helped prove their products viablility.

I talked to several Tesla employees at he Supercharger EVent. ever one said putting a HPC at the Supercharger sites was a good idea. Most employees had not thought of it.

 

[TEG]

They could just install J1772 EVSEs instead of HPCs. 40kW & 60kW Model S could use them with their included adapter. Many roadster owners already have J1772 adapters for their Roadster. It is the most common standard for AC charging now.

 

[Jason S]

I didn't see the choice I wanted: offer the Roadster folks an adapter so they can use superchargers. Period. The whole 1.0 vs 2.0 thing seems like an odd differentiation.

 

[vfx]

I didn't see the choice I wanted: offer the Roadster folks an adapter so they can use superchargers. Period. The whole 1.0 vs 2.0 thing seems like an odd differentiation.

Roadsters cannot be adapted to Superchargers. They are DC and the Roadster takes AC.

- - - Updated - - -

They could just install J1772 EVSEs instead of HPCs. 40kW & 60kW Model S could use them with their included adapter. Many roadster owners already have J1772 adapters for their Roadster. It is the most common standard for AC charging now.

Where's the Tesla exclusivity in that?

 

[strider]

I wouldn't get too excited about any aftermarket solution that would allow a non-TMC user to access a SC...I'm sure TMC has no intention of providing free charges to non-TMC customers...it could potentially cost them too much money and the inconvenience caused by the additional folks wanting to charge would nullify the benefit for TMC customers...there will be a simple software solution to this issue imo...

I agree. Since Model S's will all have 3G connections it would be trivial to do a quick challenge/response verification before the charger would activate.

I still think there should be HPC's on site as well for Roadsters. There may be a few home-made Tesla-J1772 adapters out there but I don't see them as being mainstream. Tesla just needs to put up a sign that the chargers are for Tesla vehicles only and if a Roadster or 40kwh Model S rolls up and there's another vehicle there they can bust their chops and/or have them towed. Harsh? Yes. But Tesla is doing this as a benefit to their customers, not to subsidize the rest of the world.

 

[dpeilow]

I'm sure a big part of what makes the Model S able to SuperCharge is the active liquid cooling system. I would think it would be nearly impossible to find room for the radiators, fans and other equipment required inside of the Roadster form factor. Of course, I don't own a Roadster and know nothing about it, but from the exterior it just looks like it would be a stretch to fit that stuff.

You're right, you know nothing about it...

 

[rolosrevenge]

I agree. Since Model S's will all have 3G connections it would be trivial to do a quick challenge/response verification before the charger would activate.

I still think there should be HPC's on site as well for Roadsters. There may be a few home-made Tesla-J1772 adapters out there but I don't see them as being mainstream. Tesla just needs to put up a sign that the chargers are for Tesla vehicles only and if a Roadster or 40kwh Model S rolls up and there's another vehicle there they can bust their chops and/or have them towed. Harsh? Yes. But Tesla is doing this as a benefit to their customers, not to subsidize the rest of the world.

I also agree, and I hope they do it. A nice 80 A charging station with two plugs, a Roadster connector and a Model S connector. That way it can accommodate a Roadster AND a 40 kWh Model S.

 

[strider]

It's actually easier to swap out the Roadster's socket. No adapter would be necessary at any HPC at the Superchargers or any of (30,000 and growing) Model S owner's homes. Not too many Roadster owner homes in comparison (and many have Model S's too!)

But then you'd have to convert your HPC or UMC to Tesla 2.0 as well. We're easily into thousands of dollars.

Since 99% of my charging is at home, just put HPC 2.0's at SC sites and create a Tesla 2.0 -> Roadster adapter.

- - - Updated - - -

They could just install J1772 EVSEs instead of HPCs. 40kW & 60kW Model S could use them with their included adapter. Many roadster owners already have J1772 adapters for their Roadster. It is the most common standard for AC charging now.

But Tesla is creating the SC sites for their customers, not to power the whole world. I agree w/ the others that SC sites should only charge Teslas (but it should charge all Teslas).

 

[dpeilow]

Why not have the 2.0 plug in each of the bays talk to the car and if it doesn't get permision to supply DC, it switches through AC at 80A? That would satisfy 40 kWh owners and Roadster owners would just need an adapter. Tesla has my details for the consultancy fee, thanks.

I also seem to remember Roadster has an upper voltage limit of 277V, but can an owner check?

 

[vfx]

I also agree, and I hope they do it. A nice 80 A charging station with two plugs, a Roadster connector and a Model S connector. That way it can accommodate a Roadster AND a 40 kWh Model S.

The Roadster plug is history. The Paddles that charged the EV1 and the Rav 4EV are nearly wiped out now. The Roadster plugs in the wild have been converted too. Better to have the Model S plug in the Roadster so when there are 100,000+ Teslas out there (and only 1000 Roadsters) you can plug in anywhere they do. A tiny J1772 adapter gets you plugged into the rest of the country.

 

[PRJIM]

I'm sure a big part of what makes the Model S able to SuperCharge is the active liquid cooling system. I would think it would be nearly impossible to find room for the radiators, fans and other equipment required inside of the Roadster form factor. Of course, I don't own a Roadster and know nothing about it, but from the exterior it just looks like it would be a stretch to fit that stuff.

TM has a few Roadsters that have been retrofitted with Model S Powertrain bits.

It's actually easier to swap out the Roadster's socket. No adapter would be necessary at any HPC at the Superchargers or any of (30,000 and growing) Model S owner's homes. Not too many Roadster owner homes in comparison (and many have Model S's too!)

If you wanted to plug in to a J1772 or 14-50 then Tesla's little adapters are a much more trunk efficient solution.

Another reason for getting rid of the Tesla 1.0 standard is the are very very expensive. With Tesla now making 10's of thousands of the new 2.0 plugs and sockets they will hit economics of scale never before possible with the basically handmade Roadster connectors.

The cost will be quite substantial to swap out the Roadster connector for a Model S one, the car may have to go through homologation with this new connector. I am sure there will be aftermarket companies or individuals that will offer a built in solution.