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HPWC cost after the fact? Anyone know?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by sp4rk, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. sp4rk

    sp4rk Banned

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    #1 sp4rk, Feb 7, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
    Wondering if anyone knows how much it costs / will cost to purchase the HPWC after you've taken delivery.

    I'm having my garage slightly rewired from my 1776 to a NEMA 14-50. In the process sparkie, (not me), was "borrowing" the electric circuit from the disused kitchen range above. 50 amp, 220.

    Extending the conduit / wires 20 feet and done. Then they discovered that while the breaker was 50, the AMG was too thin to support it. Forget what number but rated for 40amps.

    So, they are pulling new wire from the main circuit breaker panel.

    If they're doing that, figured might as well pull a 100amp circuit. And do it "properly". Will get a cost for that this am.

    But ... not if TMC will want $3k or something for the HPWC. After all their dual chargers went from, what $1,500 to $3,500?

    So, anyone know? Would call TMC but having a hard time getting a hold of my rep there and they're not open yet anyway!
     
  2. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    I highly doubt it will be any different than the $1200 (maybe you will have to pay shipping). The reason why the second charger is so much more expensive is due to install.
     
  3. RKM

    RKM Member

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    I was told, in writing, that it would cost around $1200 if purchased after finalizing.
     
  4. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    $1300 for you I bet. :) (since that is what they charge us Canadians to include it in when we order the car in the first place).
     
  5. RKM

    RKM Member

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    True, $1300 for me. The Tesla rep must not have noticed my Canadian-ness when he's quoted the $1200. Still, $1300 is "around" $1200!
     
  6. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    #6 FlasherZ, Feb 7, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
    It must be some type of local Chicagoland rules biting you.

    AWG 8 wire in conduit is good for 50 amp at 75 degC (THWN) and 90 degC (THHN), but not if it's NM cable (Romex); that said, Romex in most of Chicagoland is banned anyway. So if your stove outlet is served with individual wires in conduit, #8 is indeed good for 50A and should be ok to extend.

    AWG 10 THHN (dry locations) in conduit is good for max of 40 amps (90 degree C) but it would never pass inspection to install a 50A breaker on it. So I'd be really surprised if that's what he found. Did a previous owner find perhaps that his electric range was tripping the breaker with the oven and 4 burners on, and simply swap a 40A breaker for a 50A one?

    For 50A applications, most electricians will install #6, regardless of cable type, so you don't run into any derating issues.

    To your final point, as the HPWC isn't an integral part of the car, I don't believe there's an after-the-fact difference. It's a $1200 box that you have installed yourself. It will cost a bit more to make the #3 runs and swap out for a 100A breaker - the wire costs nearly double (#6 runs are typically about $2/ft and you should figure roughly $4/ft for #3 runs). Based on my experience and the experience of others in the threads here, I'd say that unless you really know you'll need the 62-miles-per-hour-of-charge rate, you might just want to install the 50 amp outlet.

    The only time I've needed charging faster than a 14-50 is when I come home from the airport (60 miles) on a Friday afternoon and need to make the 140-mile trip to my in-laws' the same afternoon. Infrastructure is starting to mitigate that, with chargers that keep me topped off at the airport, and Superchargers being planned on the route, so in 2 years I probably won't even need the HPWC at all.
     
  7. pete8314

    pete8314 Vendor

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    You pay shipping even when you order with the car :-(. Only advantage is it can be rolled into the financing, and you might get it a bit earlier.
     
  8. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Just to post this note here as well; in the 50A thread on the charging forum you noted you had 3/4" conduit -- this won't support the HPWC wiring needs and you'd need to upgrade to 1" conduit to support 2 #3 conductors plus #8 ground.
     
  9. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Tesla's HPWC pdf seems to suggest it can be connected to anywhere from 40 amp to 100 amp circuits. So as long as the OP doesn't want or need the full capacity of the HPWC, he should be good to go.
     
  10. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    What am I missing? Why would he buy the HPWC and not want to charge above 40 amps?
     
  11. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    You might be better of buying a regular J1772 EVSE so that when a friend with a EV comes by (mayber in a couple of years) he can also charge at your place.

    Since you get a J1772 adapter with the car it shouldn't make a difference.

    Just something to think about :)
     
  12. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    One of the OP's original concerns was that if he needed to pull new wiring through existing conduit, why not increase it to the 100A capacity necessary for full HPWC charging.

    I agree you could crank it down a bit so that you could meet conduit fill requirements with a smaller circuit, but at that point why not just revert to a 14-50. While I purchased the HPWC and will need it in the short-term, I'm quickly finding that a 14-50 is going to do me just fine once the Superchargers come into existence around me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I know it's a small nitpick, but having done the J1772 dance a few times -- even with it being in the glove box -- that button to open the charge port is a feature that's difficult to live without. I know you can do it on the app as well.
     
  13. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Several reasons:

    You may not have equipped your Model S with Twin Chargers;

    You may like the "style" of the device and the way it fits in to your garage decor;

    You may want to keep the UMC in the car and have a more permanent solution at home in the garage;

    (My reason) You may have twin chargers but are currently limited by the home's main service capacity. Set up HPWC at 40 or 50 amps now, but have the capability of increasing to 100 amps later when main house service is upgraded.

    Tesla seems to have thought this through and made the HPWC capable of being connected at various capacities.
     
  14. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    But you run the power company! Fix it! :) :)
     
  15. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    You can buy it after, but those who ordered theirs with the car will get theirs first. Cost is the same, but you will have to pay shipping.
     
  16. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    And you may need the longer 25' length.
     
  17. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Another reason is that you might have a 2 plugin household. When "solo charging", 80 (100) is lovely but when "team charging" you may want to throttle it back so a same-circuit 14-50R can run on another vehicle.
     
  18. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    Another valid reason. All are in fact valid. I knew I was missing something. My brain doesn't work as well as it used to. Seems as though sp4rk should save the 1200 til later. Though it may be cheaper/easier to have "sparky" get the wiring done while he's out there.
     
  19. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I thought about getting the wiring for the HPWC done too, but it would have required a panel replacement whereas the 14-50 just required running the wires and adding a breaker. (I had changed out the Federal panel a few years ago.) Should I later decide to get an HPWC the additional cost won't be much different than had I installed it now.
     
  20. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    Most likely correct. I'm getting both and installing the additional service because I'm a brat. Plus we have an X res for my better half.
     

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