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HPWC issues

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by swengl, Mar 19, 2015.

  1. swengl

    swengl Member

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    Has anyone else seen this (or know how to resolve it)? I had a HPWC installed the other day and during the install we followed the directions to perform a self test and everything looked good. Today, a few local Model S owners graciously came by the house to try it out. When we plugged in the cord to the 2 cars, the charging ring on the car went red (immediately), the charger showed a red light and the dashboard flashed an error stating that there was a "Charge Cable Fault". When we removed the charging cable, the HPWC light went from red to green. We tried a reset of the unit (a few times, in fact). During the install, I was very careful to make sure the dip switches were set to allow 80A charging (maximum throughput). The electrician followed all of the advice: used 3 gauge wire, a 100A breaker and he assured me the breaker box had the capacity to handle the load (the circuit never tripped during our tests). Our house has 2 x 200 Amp boxes. It seems to me that everything is set up correctly. We connected 2 different S85s with the same result. I've initiated a call with Tesla and I am waiting for a call back. I'm scheduled to pick my car up next weekend and I want to make sure that the charger is working before I get it. If anyone has any thoughts, I'm all ears! Thanks!
     
  2. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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  3. swengl

    swengl Member

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    I did look at that and honestly, I don't remember seeing it flash at all. The way I understood it is that those troubleshooting steps were more for the original setup (page 15). The "self test" passed with no red lights at all (which makes me wonder if it is a problem in the cable between the unit and the car). One other thing to note: I had cycled the breaker after making the changes to the dip switches to supply 80A power to the car.
     
  4. ThirdMartini

    ThirdMartini Member

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    I saw the same problem, as soon as you plugged in my Tesla, the lights would light up red.

    Double check the dip switches. I had a Tesla recommended electrician install mine and they set the dip switches incorrectly. ( Technically they did set the dip switches correctly but for an older version of the HWPC .. using an old install guide ) I flipped the switches per the settings in the guide that came with MY unit and reset it and it started charging fine. No problems since then.
     
  5. swengl

    swengl Member

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    I've checked them again. They were set correctly (if the manual that came with the unit is correct!). I'm 99% sure it is a problem with the unit. I'm waiting for Tesla to return my call to discuss.
     
  6. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    Sounds like bad grounding. If the ground is insufficient this is the behavior I'd expect. Make sure you have a #8 AWG ground wire, and that all wires are on the ground bus bar. Note there is a jumper ground wire that goes around the bottom screw when mounting the HPWC to the wall plate, also.

    Also, check that the ground is properly installed on the other end of the line to the ground bus. If it is a sub panel and it is tied to the neutral bus (or the sub panel neutral is bonded [illegal]) that could cause the issue also.
     
  7. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    To add to this...

    You should get some of the red light blinks as noted earlier. If you don't see those, I suspect a bad HPWC. Otherwise, bad/floating ground is the most likely culprit.

    I've seen some people misinterpret the DIP switches before, look closely to make sure the positions of "on" are correct for the DIP switches (I've seen cases in which they've been reversed).
     
  8. SW2Fiddler

    SW2Fiddler Bannd Member

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    Question for those who KNOW:
    Is there a surefire (no pun intended) way to determine the version of the HPWC without having to trust that the accompanying manual is the right piece of paper?
    I need to nail this down before purchasing my breaker. No guesses or "I Think Maybes," please and Thank You!
     
  9. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    I don't believe there is one that is documented, I'm sure that we can get some part numbers here. For those who have the newer wall connector (those who can't set their breaker to 70A or 90A), can you list the Tesla P/N here from the label on your WC?
     
  10. swengl

    swengl Member

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    Tesla is looking into the logs from the 2 cars that were hooked up to see if they can get more information about the issue. The ground wires look good. I didn't do this myself, I had a licensed electrician (and I watched over his back). I would think that if the self-test worked fine, the issue is probably in the cable between the HPWC and the car. If not, the self-test isn't worth much! ;)

    - - - Updated - - -

    I though the same thing, so I checked the numbering on the dip switches and everything checked out.
    I could have taken delivery of my car tomorrow, but I want to make sure the HPWC is working before I do!
     
  11. swengl

    swengl Member

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    Problem solved! I believe the problem was that one of the DIP switches wasn't fully engaged. They "looked" like they were set correctly, but I shut off the breaker and flipped all of them and then set them to the correct configuration and when I turned back on the breaker and plugged a Model S in : Success! I'll pick the car up next weekend ;) Thanks to all for the suggestions!

    - - - Updated - - -

    What Amperage are you looking to provide to the car? When did you purchase your HPWC? If it was recent (last few months), I think it would be safe to assume that the DIP switch settings would be uniform. If you want absolute certainty, call Tesla HQ and asking to speak to the Dept in charge (pun intended) of charging installation and give them the serial number of the unit and they could tell you for sure.
     
  12. SW2Fiddler

    SW2Fiddler Bannd Member

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    I have a NEMA 14-50 on a 50A breaker and haven't looked to see what gauge wire the sparky installed while I was at work (40-foot run from the main panel, no sub box). I'm sure he didn't go with #3 or #2 copper for that anyway! So I may replace NEMA with the HPWC on the existing copper and just upgrade the breaker to within the wire's safe capacity AND the HPWC's allowed amperages. I did have him put in 1-inch conduit, so ultimately a 100A install after upgrading my home's service if needed.
    (I want to let my second charger kick in, so even 60A will do that and give my UMC a break)

    HPWC: I received it last spring (May?) directly from TM.

    If, if, if, blah blah blah :)

    Rick
     
  13. swengl

    swengl Member

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    That's the main reason I went with the HPWC and not the NEMA 14-50: I didn't want to plug/unplug the UMC a bunch of times just to charge at home. The price difference in the hardware was $100 and I only paid $400 to have an electrician run the conduit, wiring from inside the basement, outside along the house to the garage and install the HPWC on the garage wall. If you have dual chargers, you might as well pull the 3 gauge and put in the 100A circuit to get the full benefit ;) The nice thing about the HPWC is that you can pare back the amperage with the DIP switches, so if you decide to use existing wire and determine the max safe load, set the switches and let it rip. Good luck with the decision!
     
  14. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    It's likely #6 wire unless you gave special instructions. You mentioned conduit, so it's likely that you have wire-in-conduit and can go up to 60A on the HPWC install.

    If it's NM-B (Romex), then it's rated at 55A (60 degC column of 310.15 per 334.80); if it's wire-in-conduit, it's likely THHN and is good for 65A at 75 degC termination temperature. While 240.3 allows the "next breaker size up" - i.e., a 60A breaker on NM-B or a 70A breaker on wire-in-conduit, you may not configure the HPWC to use that higher current. This is because 210.19(A)(1) requires the conductors as well as the breaker to be sized not less than 125% of the continuous load offered.

    This means that if you have #6 NM-B (Romex) - even though you would be permitted to put a 60A breaker onto it - you must configure the HPWC for a 50A circuit. If you have wire-in-conduit from the panel to your HPWC, then you could configure it for a 60A breaker because the 75 degC termination rating is 65A on #6 wire.

    (It can get complicated - here's a good overview of sizing breakers and conductors for an appliance, although the example used is 3-phase: http://www.mikeholt.com/news/archive/html/master/conductor.htm)
     
  15. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    Isn't that always the way with electrical gizmos: it's the mechanical bits that cause all the trouble!

    But how can you stand waiting an extra week for your Model S? I'd have been on the phone trying to get a new delivery appointment the instant the HPWC started working. Well, actually, I would have taken delivery of the car as original scheduled, and sorted out the charging later. :wink:
     
  16. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    Glad you got it sorted out.
     
  17. swengl

    swengl Member

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    We are coordinating a family trip to Raleigh (about 2 1/2 hours away) and I've had March 28th penciled in for a while now. I'm actually OK not picking it up a week early, which is odd I know. Maybe I'm subconsciously hoping 6.2 will be released by then and installed when I pick up the car, lol.
     
  18. cmu5p

    cmu5p Member

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    and that's what I did. It was pretty painful charging snail speed off a 110 before my home charger was installed 5 days later. Talk about range anxiety.......
     
  19. SW2Fiddler

    SW2Fiddler Bannd Member

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    Good call; it is AWG 6 in a 1" conduit from the 50A breaker in my main panel.
    So 60A it is, if I install the HPWC before pulling bigger wire through.

    When I do upgrade wire/breaker from 60A... What's the limit in a 1" conduit if I also pull wire for a 120V outlet? He seems to have piggybacked the 120 on the same 50A circuit. I'd prefer to separate them (so I can mow the lawn while charging) and there are spare breakers on the panel.

    Thanks FlasherZ for the guidance. I had already started watching Mike Holt's YouTube videos about the NEC. I must say my myths about grounding have been dispelled!

    Rick
     
  20. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    60A breaker is the max, and #14 is only needed for a 20A 120V circuit (you'll have to derate, since you have 4 current-carrying conductors in the same raceway). #6 is 75A at 90 degC, which derates to 60A ampacity per 310.15(B)(3)(a). #14 is 25A at 90 degC, which derates to 20A. 75 degC termination ratings apply at the breaker and appliance terminals, but that's 65A for #6 and 20A for #14 (310.15(B)(16)).

    (For those others reading this thread, note that for wire-in-conduit, #14 is legal for 20A circuits but not NM-B/Romex, since NM-B requires you to use the 60 degC column, limiting #14 to 15A.)

    1" provides plenty of space; it's the minimum size for 3x#6 (HPWC) + 2x#14 (120V) + 1x#10 (ground). If you only pull hots for the 60A circuit (and no neutral), you can even use a 3/4" conduit. Upsizing the 120V circuit to #12 still works in 1" as well.

    You may share a single ground (not neutral!) but it must be sized for the largest circuit. 60A requires #10 ground.

    And if he placed a 120V outlet on that 50A circuit, he should have his license pulled. I saw a DIY'er once install a 120V outlet on the load side of a 200A disconnect going to an outbuilding... you might be able to imagine what happened when that metal drill with shorted windings was plugged in...

    Mike's stuff is a great resource indeed!
     

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