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HPWC or not? Looking to the future

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by pbleic, Feb 18, 2014.

  1. pbleic

    pbleic Member

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    Thinking about my order. I don't need rapid charging in the evening and can't really anticipate when I would. However, I want to look to the future as I consider what to put in my garage. It is a detached garage, so I will have to pull wire. I am deciding between 1 14-50 plug with 50 amps, 2 with 100 amp service (in case, at some point we have 2 electrics), or an HPWC. The HPWC will cost extra in the car and - I think - extra to install.

    I am wondering also whether the dual chargers will eventually allow more rapid charging on the road. Haven't seen anything yet, but in the future?

    BTW, I am in the Northeast.

    Any advice?
     
  2. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    #2 NigelM, Feb 18, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
    Pull wire for the HPWC (100A) and install a 14-50 on it; aside from a little more expensive cable there's no other downside I can think of and you'll have an easy path to upgrade to the HPWC if you decide from later experience that you need it.

    If your incremental cost of pulling an extra wire to allow two outlets is not too high I'd definitely do that also, just for the convenience factor. Once you're driving electric it'll only be a matter of time before you have two EVs in your garage.
     
  3. bob_p

    bob_p Member

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    While most of the time I don't need the fast charging at home. Recently, I came home from a road trip - with only 20 miles of range left on the car - and it was great to be able to add charge back at the rate of 60 miles per hour, so that I could take the car out again without having to wait hours to recharge...
     
  4. pbleic

    pbleic Member

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    Without an actual price quote, this is about where I am; same reasoning. The digging up of asphault and pavers makes it more complex, but this is even for basic service. We only have to pull one wire and put in a subpanel, I think... but IANAE.

    So...would you pay the extra for the twin chargers when buying the car??
     
  5. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    #5 Cottonwood, Feb 18, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
    If you are having to do excavation, that can be a major part of the expense. I plan for the future, and it's usually a good investment. Plastic conduit is pretty cheap these days, so I would put your wires in conduit (a little more vermin protection), and then put in a spare, empty conduit. Specify minimum 2' radius sweeps; most contractors know to do this, but I assumed that once and got 90˚ elbows... For service, price 100A, 150A, and 200A choices with a sub-panel in your garage. More EV's are probably in your future. On top of that, is there a chance that you would put solar on that detached garage? The sum of the feed into the panel and the Solar PV inverter feed must be less than 110% of the panel bus bar rating; you may want the panel to be a size larger than your feed.

    It's a bit of a luxury, but an HPWC is a cleaner, more convenient, and perhaps safer, charging setup than a 14-50 and a UMC. I lived for a year with a UMC, then got a deal on an HPWC that someone was selling. I had capacity in the garage sub-panel (pre-planning), and put in the HPWC. It was a wonderful upgrade; I should have started that way! In fact, it was so great, I ordered another HPWC and put it in my second home!

    As for dual chargers, High Amp J1772's (HAJ's) and HPWC's are the minority in the wild, but when you get to one, it is VERY nice to charge at twice the rate. Examples of HAJ's are the Sun Country Highway across Canada and Washington State, I have helped get two JAJ's in Pagosa Springs, CO and Salida, CO, and there are others out there. For HPWC's, Tesla is discounting or comping HPWC's for Destination Charging, and most Tesla Service Centers and Show Rooms have at least a couple of HPWC's.

    You may not use them often, but it only takes a few charges in the wild, done at half the time, to appreciate your investment in Dual Chargers.

    Good Luck with your new S!
     
  6. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Tip, we've been doing some similar stuff with our PV installation on a new building and it's much easier for us to bring in a tunnel boring company (they attach conduit to the back of a GPS controlled drill which is also fitted with a camera) than dig everything up. This meant we could also add an extra conduit for CAT5 cable to install a router at the same time. It's actually costing us less to do it that way and we don't have any unsightly patchwork in our driveway.

    (Caveat: we had to cover a distance if 160' so the cost for us to dig was pretty high, although we only had ~20' under the driveway.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    I would. +1 to what Cottonwood said above.
     
  7. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    If you or your descendants ever look into selling your house, any would-be buyer who has a hint of home handyman in him and finds there is 100-amp service in a garage-that-could-be-a-workshop is going to be very happy. It is one of the single most remunerative upgrades a homeowner can perform.
     
  8. Rockster

    Rockster Active Member

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    Another plus to a 100 amp HPWC is the benefit to Model S travelers in your area, if you're inclined to put yourself on Plugshare or equivalent. The more Model S owners who do this, the more it benefits us all until the SC infrastructure reaches maturity.
     
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    The additional cost for the HPWC is negligible. The annoyance of having to either leave the UMC plugged in all the time or buying a second and the lack of durability compared to the HPWC (think that if you need to buy even one replacement/3rd UMC) you've made up the cost of the HPWC. I think it makes sense to have the HPWC permanantly installed. You'll be fine either way.
     
  10. kendallpb

    kendallpb Model S: P 8061

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    Wouldn't that be 6-50? At least, that's what Solar City installed (and what Tesla said to get) originally, while I was waiting for my HPWC to show up last year. Ah, back in the days when the HPWC was more legend than reality.... ;-)
     
  11. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Either is sufficient. Reason they specified 6-50 was that you could save the cost of 1 wire (the neutral). If you ever have need for an RV outlet, though, you'll want that neutral there.
     
  12. Blaze

    Blaze Member

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    I will be installing a separate meter, panel, and the HPWC. Best electric rates without shifting to time of use schedule. No chance or over loading existing panel. Not sure if I will need the faster charge at home. Kind of just want it.
     
  13. GSP

    GSP Member

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    If you take a vacation trip in Canada, the Sun country highway chargers are capable of 70-80 amps. Also, there are 80 amp HPWCs at the Tesla sales and service centers, and at some private homes listed on plugshare. More HPWCs and 80 amp J1772's are likely to be installed in the future.

    The second charger costs a lot more to install later. Ordering it with your car could be a good move. Some people will never use it, but even if you only use it a few times, you will be really glad to have it on those occasions.

    GSP
     
  14. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    #14 stevezzzz, Feb 22, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
    I installed a pair of 14-50 outlets on separate breakers in my garage three years ago, and put myself on PlugShare. At the time I had a Roadster and a Model S reservation; now I have a Model S and a Model X reservation. I've never found myself limited by not having 20kW charging at home; I only unplug the UMC for road trips. Only once have I needed both 14-50's at the same time (another Model S owner came to visit), but when the X arrives I'll be ready.

    That said, the arguments for installing an HPWC in the garage have merit, and there's no reason not to future-proof your electrical service upgrade now, even if you don't install one at the outset.

    I expect to use my twin chargers for the first time in 20K miles next week on a road trip beyond the SpC network, so even though its use has turned out to be a rare event, I'm not sorry I bought the second charger: stopping for a midday charge at 10kW or less is no fun when you're trying to get somewhere.
     

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